Buying a gasless MIG welder in Thailand

[klikster]

Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but how can you have a gasless (Metallized Inert Gas) welder. 

 

Probably should call it a flux core wire feeder. 

 

I remember how my shop MIG popped and sputtered when someone tried to weld without the gas being turned on.

 

[mogandave]

Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but how can you have a gasless (Metallized Inert Gas) welder. 
 
Probably should call it a flux core wire feeder. 
 
I remember how my shop MIG popped and sputtered when someone tried to weld without the gas being turned on.
 

No, because a gasless MIG welder only works with self-shielding flux-core wire, it will not work with gas-shielded flux-core wire.

Self-shielding flux-core wire produces shielding gas as the flux burns, gas-shielded flux-core wire does not.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, klikster said:

Sorry to be a bit pedantic, but how can you have a gasless (Metallized Inert Gas) welder. 

 

Probably should call it a flux core wire feeder. 

 

I remember how my shop MIG popped and sputtered when someone tried to weld without the gas being turned on.

 

To be accurate it is "metal inert gas (MIG)." Not Metallized and is a subset of GMAW developed in 1948

 

The other type is not "flux core wire feeder" but Flux-cored arc welding (FCAW). 

 

The flux produces a gas shield for the welding area, so a gasless MIG applies to the absence of a separate gas supply.

 

However jut for giggles you can also use a shielding gas with Flux-cored arc welding, so a hybrid FCAW/GMAW.

 

All of these processes are all commonly called MIG welding.

Edited August 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

46 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

No, because a gasless MIG welder only works with self-shielding flux-core wire, it will not work with gas-shielded flux-core wire.

Self-shielding flux-core wire produces shielding gas as the flux burns, gas-shielded flux-core wire does not.

 

Really? I have heard of it referred to as "dual shield" welding, so wouldn't that imply that the flux does produce a shielding gas as well as the external supply?

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Really? I have heard of it referred to as "dual shield" welding, so wouldn't that imply that the flux does produce a shielding gas as well as the external supply?

My machine says MMA, Manual Metal Arc welding.

 

 

[mogandave]

30 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Really? I have heard of it referred to as "dual shield" welding, so wouldn't that imply that the flux does produce a shielding gas as well as the external supply?

The flux produces a gas that works in conjunction with the external shielding gas, not as the shielding gas. We used gas shielded flux-core for welding stainless tubing all the way around without repositioning. We also used it for a few all-position robot welding applications.

 

Wire:

 

 

Good article on it:

 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

The flux produces a gas that works in conjunction with the external shielding gas, not as the shielding gas.

So does that mean that you can't use gas shielded Flux-core wire without the shielding gas? I'm not talking of professional production work.

Edited August 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[mogandave]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

So does that mean that you can't use gas shielded Flux-core wire without the shielding gas?

No, it just means that it wont perform as well. Not as bad as hard wire without gas, but (generally) worse than hard wire with gas.  The self-shielding (generally) works fine with gas, but it rather defeats the purpose. 

 

I assume people on this board buy a gasless unit because it's cheap and easy, and it works well and is cost effective for low volume work with mild steel. We most always used them for field service, never for production.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

I assume people on this board buy a gasless unit because it's cheap and easy, and it works well and is cost effective for low volume work with mild steel. We most always used them for field service, never for production.

 

I had no idea that there were specific welding machines for fluxcore wire.

 

What I have seen are MIG machines that are usable with wire and gas, I assumed that they could be used with fluxcore wire or possibly fluxcore and gas. Is that not the case? 

 

I have never seen a consumer MIG that didn't have the ability to use gas.

[stubuzz]

Gas less MIG

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-mig102ng-90amp-no-gas-mig-welder/?da=1&TC=GS-010110102&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4encsLbz4wIVVeDtCh2IZg1AEAQYAiABEgKd3_D_BwE

I have always considered the gas less unit a hobby machine. The gas versions are much better.

 

[mogandave]

While the cheap units are popular for home shops and whatnot gasless is great if you want portability. Like I said we used them for field service. 

 

We did not use gasless units though, we just used little gas units without gas, that way we could use the same guns and consumables on everything. 

 

To be clear, with a decent machine and good wire you can get as good a weld as a gas machine running hard wire, and if you're outside in the wind you can get a better weld. 

 

The wire is just too expensive to make it cost effective if you have any volume.