Israeli troops kill Palestinian, wound more than 200 at Gaza border protest

[rooster59]

Israeli troops kill Palestinian, wound more than 200 at Gaza border protest

 

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli troops killed one Palestinian and wounded more than 200 others at a weekly protest on the Gaza-Israel border on Friday, Gaza officials said.

 

Protesters rolled burning tires and hurled stones towards the Israeli soldiers and the border fence, witnesses said. The Israeli military said that some threw firebombs and a grenade. No Israelis were hurt.

 

Reuters television footage showed incendiary kites in the air being sent towards Israel.

 

Palestinian health officials said a 17-year-old boy was shot dead by Israeli soldiers and that 210 others were wounded, 45 of them with live fire, including a medic.

 

An Israeli military statement said soldiers had used riot dispersal means and acted "in accordance with standard operating procedures." Israeli aircraft also struck two Hamas outposts, the military said.

 

Since Gazans began holding weekly border protests began on March 30, the Israeli army has killed 173 Palestinians and wounded thousands. A Gaza sniper has killed an Israeli soldier.

 

Gaza, a narrow coastal enclave home to more than 2 million Palestinians is controlled by Islamist group Hamas. Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza in 2005 but maintains tight control of its land and sea borders. Egypt also restricts movement in and out of Gaza on its border.

 

The protests are taking place at a time of growing frustration over the prospects for an independent Palestinian state. Peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians have been stalled for several years and Israeli settlements in the occupied territories have expanded.

 

Israel says Hamas deliberately provokes violence at the protests, a charge Hamas denies.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-09-08

[i claudius]

Stop protesting ,get rid of Hamas ,and go and get a job,do something useful just like Israel did  and build a better country .

[AsiaHand]

If you screw with the bull,you get the horn.

[connda]

The 'invisible humanitarian crisis' continues unabated, unsanctioned, and probably ad-infinitum until such time as Palestine is simple bulldozed under and it's people relocated elsewhere while the leaders of the world look the other way.

[Jingthing]

Sounds like the IDF is getting better at restraint. That was obviously a violent protest with the fire tires. I reckon many nations would repel a violent protest at their border with much more deadly force than that. Credit where credit is due to the IDF for clearly trying very hard to avoid killing the violent protesters. 

 

Of course the Israel demonizers will make every excuse in the book for the "right" of these protestors to be so violent and magically expect no response. News flash -- Israel isn't into turning the other cheek and everyone in the Middle East knows that already.

 

I totally get (and support) that the Gaza Palestinians have legit grievances and do have every right to protest, but they do not have the right to stage violent border protests. I also think they should be directing at least some of their understandable anger at their own oppressive extremist government Hamas. Of course they don't as they know they would be murdered by Hamas much more systemically than by the IDF.  Any sovereign nation would push back hard to such an assault but somehow Israel isn't supposed to? That's ridiculous. People pushing that are total hypocrites. They would rightfully expect their own governments to do similar and much worse against such violent assaults at their borders.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[candide]

Your comparison with "other nations" is flawed. Other "normal" nations don't continuously take land from their neighbours and respect internationally recognised borders.

Moreover, is the border with Gaza even a border as Gaza (or Palestine) is not independent?

Edited September 8, 2018 by candide

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, candide said:

Your comparison with "other nations" is flawed. Other "normal" nations don't continuously take land from their neighbours and respect internationally recognised borders.

Moreover, is the border with Gaza even a border as Gaza (or Palestine) is not independent?

You conveniently fail to mention that Gaza used to be occupied by Israel and was completely given back by Israel. 

 

Anyway I totally understand that Palestinian people (in the west bank, Gaza, Israel, and the diaspora) have legitimate grievances with the Israeli government, other governments (such as Lebanon and Egypt) and their own Palestinian leaders but I strongly oppose such violent border protests that are basically moronic martyr missions. Hamas is probably sad when there aren't more deaths they can use as anti-Israel propaganda. Don't be naïve folks -- you can see what Hamas is doing and your anger towards Israel blinds admitting it. Get real, dudes, Hamas doesn't expect to take Israel territory or gain Palestinian right of return into sovereign Israel by promoting such violent protests. It's only about a P.R. propaganda gambit. They're risking the lives of their own young people for nothing. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That was nice of them.

It was something, yes. 

[candide]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You conveniently fail to mention that Gaza used to be occupied by Israel and was completely given back by Israel. 

Not a state, still controlled by Israel and still considered as occupied by international organisations such as the UN. So on the one side a nation with variable-geometric borders and the other side something which is not a nation.

Having said that, I am not saying that Palestinians behave in the best way, in case there is a best way.

Edited September 8, 2018 by candide

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, candide said:

Not a state, still controlled by Israel and still considered as occupied by international organisations such as the UN. So on the one side a nation with variable-geometric borders and the other side something which is not a nation.

Having said that, I am not saying that Palestinians behave in the best way, in case there is a best way.

The U.N? You must be joking. They are totally biased against Israel. 

 

Now for an objective look at the question about whether Israel actually does "occupy" Gaza. Not about the West Bank. About Gaza. 

 

Quote

 

JERUSALEM — It’s often described as a war of narratives. And few things highlight the intractability of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict more than discussions over the status of the Gaza Strip.

One of the main points of contention: Is the coastal Palestinian territory occupied by Israel?

We asked two Israelis and two Palestinians to lay out their views on that question. Their responses, below, have been edited for length and clarity.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/02/does-israel-actually-occupy-the-gaza-strip/

Edited September 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You conveniently fail to mention that Gaza used to be occupied by Israel and was completely given back by Israel. 

 

Anyway I totally understand that Palestinian people (in the west bank, Gaza, Israel, and the diaspora) have legitimate grievances with the Israeli government, other governments (such as Lebanon and Egypt) and their own Palestinian leaders but I strongly oppose such violent border protests that are basically moronic martyr missions. Hamas is probably sad when there aren't more deaths they can use as anti-Israel propaganda. Don't be naïve folks -- you can see what Hamas is doing and your anger towards Israel blinds admitting it. Get real, dudes, Hamas doesn't expect to take Israel territory or gain Palestinian right of return into sovereign Israel by promoting such violent protests. It's only about a P.R. propaganda gambit. They're risking the lives of their own young people for nothing. 

>>"You conveniently fail to mention that Gaza used to be occupied by Israel and was completely given back by Israel. "

..Gaza is still under Israeli occupation.

OP...
"Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza in 2005 but maintains tight control of its land and sea borders."

Gaza is an open prison. Israel controls almost every aspect of Palestinian lives in Gaza through its blockade of land, sea, and air space, medications, electricity, water,   import export of goods, so that Gazans cannot make a living , oversees the birth deaths registry, even how many calories Gazans need.

 

If Israel eased the blockade and allowed security vetted Palestinians who were born in Israel the right of return to their homes there the violence would end tomorrow.

Edited September 8, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

2 hours ago, candide said:

Your comparison with "other nations" is flawed. Other "normal" nations don't continuously take land from their neighbours and respect internationally recognised borders.

Moreover, is the border with Gaza even a border as Gaza (or Palestine) is not independent?

 

I wouldn't know what passes for a "normal" nations in your mind. This presupposes all countries and nations exist under similar circumstances. As mentioned above, and on previous topics - there are no illegal Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. That you continuously try to push this angle is understandable, but not exactly to the point. And "respect internationally recognised borders"? You mean in the same way Hamas doesn't recognize them? Or perhaps this is another shot at making Israel the sole party responsible for the conflict remaining unresolved?

 

If you yourself doubt whether the Gaza border is a border, what's the point of your argument, exactly?

Edited September 8, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

>>"You conveniently fail to mention that Gaza used to be occupied by Israel and was completely given back by Israel. "

..Gaza is still under Israeli occupation.

OP...
"Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza in 2005 but maintains tight control of its land and sea borders."

Gaza is an open prison. Israel controls almost every aspect of Palestinian lives in Gaza through its blockade of land, sea, and air space, medications, electricity, water,   import export of goods, so that Gazans cannot make a living , oversees the birth deaths registry, even how many calories Gazans need.

 

If Israel eased the blockade and allowed security vetted Palestinians who were born in Israel the right of return to their homes there the violence would end tomorrow.

 

More of your standard issue nonsense. Whether you like to acknowledge it or not, the blockade on the Gaza Strip is directly related to Hamas agenda and actions. And, of course, it is also maintained by Egypt, which you rarely mention. Deflect away.

 

As for your rendition of conditions in Gaza, it would seem amazing that facing such hardships, the ruling faction would concentrate its efforts on investing a huge chunk of its available meager resources on futile military efforts - rockets, launchers, tunnels, and the like. Almost forgot the part about fleecing their own people taxing smuggled goods, confiscating construction materials or playing political games with Palestinian rivals making locals' lives even harder.

 

Your hollow assertions as to "the violence would end tomorrow" have been addressed on numerous topics. Find a new bogus line to copy paste.

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Morch

[dexterm]

44 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

More of your standard issue nonsense. Whether you like to acknowledge it or not, the blockade on the Gaza Strip is directly related to Hamas agenda and actions. And, of course, it is also maintained by Egypt, which you rarely mention. Deflect away.

 

As for your rendition of conditions in Gaza, it would seem amazing that facing such hardships, the ruling faction would concentrate its efforts on investing a huge chunk of its available meager resources on futile military efforts - rockets, launchers, tunnels, and the like. Almost forgot the part about fleecing their own people taxing smuggled goods, confiscating construction materials or playing political games with Palestinian rivals making locals' lives even harder.

 

Your hollow assertions as to "the violence would end tomorrow" have been addressed on numerous topics. Find a new bogus line to copy paste.

 

Israel also controls Gaza's air and sea space; Egypt does not.

[Morch]

Just now, dexterm said:

Israel also controls Gaza's air and sea space; Egypt does not.

 

That's the best you can come up with? A counterfactual one-liner? Egypt maintain a maritime blockade as well, as far as Palestinian vessels trying to enter its territorial waters or foreign vessels heading in. Gaza is not a country, and therefore does not have an "airspace" of its own (the same would apply for "sea space", by the way).

 

So spin it whichever you like, but the blockade is maintained by Egypt as well, and if Egypt wished it the blockade would have been lifted by now.

 

Other than this bit of nonsense - guess you'll just ignore the points made and plow on. No comment whatsoever on Hamas use of resources in ways which do not benefit the local population, and nothing to support your usual bogus kumbaya assertions.

 

[ostyan]

7 hours ago, i claudius said:

Stop protesting ,get rid of Hamas ,and go and get a job,do something useful just like Israel did  and build a better country .

Palestinians are home, israelis grabbed their home

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Did you even read the OP or just copy pasted the same nonsense again?

Yes I read the OP.

 

It fails to address any of the points I raised.

 

I lookforward to reading the report from the open and transparent inquest into the death of the boy and an explanation as to why he was targeted.

[dexterm]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That's the best you can come up with? A counterfactual one-liner? Egypt maintain a maritime blockade as well, as far as Palestinian vessels trying to enter its territorial waters or foreign vessels heading in. Gaza is not a country, and therefore does not have an "airspace" of its own (the same would apply for "sea space", by the way).

 

So spin it whichever you like, but the blockade is maintained by Egypt as well, and if Egypt wished it the blockade would have been lifted by now.

 

Other than this bit of nonsense - guess you'll just ignore the points made and plow on. No comment whatsoever on Hamas use of resources in ways which do not benefit the local population, and nothing to support your usual bogus kumbaya assertions.

 

A link to your assertion that Egypt maintains a maritime blockade of Gaza would be helpful.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, ostyan said:

Palestinians are home, israelis grabbed their home

 

There are no Israelis (other than the a couple of hostages held by Hamas) in the Gaza Strip.

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, dexterm said:

A link to your assertion that Egypt maintains a maritime blockade of Gaza would be helpful.

 

As if this was never discussed in the past....maybe this will help:

 

Egyptian fire kills Palestinian at sea: Gaza Health Ministry

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-egypt-death/egyptian-fire-kills-palestinian-at-sea-gaza-health-ministry-idUSKBN1F20C5

 

A comment on points made, rather than the usual deflections and ignoring of anything uncomfortable would be nice.

No real expectations of such, though.

[dexterm]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

As if this was never discussed in the past....maybe this will help:

 

Egyptian fire kills Palestinian at sea: Gaza Health Ministry

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-egypt-death/egyptian-fire-kills-palestinian-at-sea-gaza-health-ministry-idUSKBN1F20C5

 

A comment on points made, rather than the usual deflections and ignoring of anything uncomfortable would be nice.

No real expectations of such, though.

A Gazan fishing boat fired upon for straying into Egyptian waters in the dark is not a blockade.

Israel controls the waters not just off its own coast but Gaza's as well; Egypt does not.

Edited September 8, 2018 by dexterm

[dexterm]

Whatever name one wants to apply to the situation in Gaza... a siege, occupation,  blockade.. Israel's brutal oppression of 2 million displaced people denyng them basic amenities is inhumane and obscene.

 

It is collective punishment, and against international law.

 

"Israel's duties to "protected persons" as an occupier of the Gaza Strip under Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention require that it allow the passage of all aid, foodstuffs, and water given the severity of the humanitarian crisis. The blockade appears to have clearly violated this provision of the law of occupation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I expect someone to come along and explain to you how you’ve grossly over simplified matters.

Till in the 90's hundreds of thousands Palestinians worked in Israel. Their places are now taken in by Vietnamese, Phillippino's and some Thai as these do not try to kill Israëli's. 

[puipuitom]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Whatever name one wants to apply to the situation in Gaza... a siege, occupation,  blockade.. Israel's brutal oppression of 2 million displaced people denyng them basic amenities is inhumane and obscene.

 

It is collective punishment, and against international law.

 

"Israel's duties to "protected persons" as an occupier of the Gaza Strip under Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention require that it allow the passage of all aid, foodstuffs, and water given the severity of the humanitarian crisis. The blockade appears to have clearly violated this provision of the law of occupation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

When this freedom of movement proved to be used time after time to bring in weaponry… every normal army will try to prevent that.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I wouldn't know what passes for a "normal" nations in your mind. This presupposes all countries and nations exist under similar circumstances. As mentioned above, and on previous topics - there are no illegal Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. That you continuously try to push this angle is understandable, but not exactly to the point. And "respect internationally recognised borders"? You mean in the same way Hamas doesn't recognize them? Or perhaps this is another shot at making Israel the sole party responsible for the conflict remaining unresolved?

 

If you yourself doubt whether the Gaza border is a border, what's the point of your argument, exactly?

Well, the Hamas also has a point when they state that they are required to recognise Israel but they don't know with which borders.

 

Israel may not be the sole party responsible for the conflict remaining unsolved, and I personnally think the Palestinian would be better if they had been more inspired by Ghandi. However, Israel is the sole party responsible for extending settlements.

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, dexterm said:

A Gazan fishing boat fired upon for straying into Egyptian waters in the dark is not a blockade.

Israel controls the waters not just off its own coast but Gaza's as well; Egypt does not.

 

Seriously, is that the best spin you can put on things? The Palestinian fisherman are not "straying" into Egyptian waters. They go over to fish illegally, and get shot at quite often. Not that much noise made about that. If you'd bother looking at the map, without them biased glasses on, you'd get the situation.

 

If Egypt wished to, it could easily let Palestinian fishermen bypass the Israeli maritime blockade, and there wouldn't be anything Israel could do about it. 

 

Gaza does not have territorial waters of its own, regardless of your fantasies.

 

And, of course, all this side-tracking about an aspect of the maritime blockade is just a deflection. Still no comment on Hamas's misuse of resources or adhering to policies making the population's hardship worse. In your world, this got nothing to  do with anything.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Whatever name one wants to apply to the situation in Gaza... a siege, occupation,  blockade.. Israel's brutal oppression of 2 million displaced people denyng them basic amenities is inhumane and obscene.

 

It is collective punishment, and against international law.

 

"Israel's duties to "protected persons" as an occupier of the Gaza Strip under Article 55 of the Fourth Geneva Convention require that it allow the passage of all aid, foodstuffs, and water given the severity of the humanitarian crisis. The blockade appears to have clearly violated this provision of the law of occupation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

 

And as usual, no context whatsoever, no reference to the Hamas, and denying Egypt's (and the PA's) role in the situation. It's all Israel.

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, candide said:

Well, the Hamas also has a point when they state that they are required to recognise Israel but they don't know with which borders.

 

Israel may not be the sole party responsible for the conflict remaining unsolved, and I personnally think the Palestinian would be better if they had been more inspired by Ghandi. However, Israel is the sole party responsible for extending settlements.

 

This is a Hamas "point"? Seriously?

Hamas is not into officially accepting or recognizing Israel. Hamas rhetoric does not uphold a permanent territorial compromise. And lastly, Hamas is not even "required to recognize Israel", currently the efforts are about coming to the point where no hostilities are carried out.

 

You can go on and on about the Israeli illegal settlements - but this topic is about the Gaza Strip. No illegal Israeli settlements there. And to return to the previous bogus point, Hamas agenda and narrative does not stop at the West Bank, hence even if Israel was to dismantle them illegal settlements, it would not alter its stance.

 

[candide]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

This is a Hamas "point"? Seriously?

Hamas is not into officially accepting or recognizing Israel. Hamas rhetoric does not uphold a permanent territorial compromise. And lastly, Hamas is not even "required to recognize Israel", currently the efforts are about coming to the point where no hostilities are carried out.

 

You can go on and on about the Israeli illegal settlements - but this topic is about the Gaza Strip. No illegal Israeli settlements there. And to return to the previous bogus point, Hamas agenda and narrative does not stop at the West Bank, hence even if Israel was to dismantle them illegal settlements, it would not alter its stance.

 

You may be right that it would not alter its stance, but it would cut off one of its main arguments and likely weaken its position vs more peaceful Palestinian factions.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, candide said:

You may be right that it would not alter its stance, but it would cut off one of its main arguments and likely weaken its position vs more peaceful Palestinian factions.

 

It doesn't change the reality that there is no such Hamas "point" as alleged.

 

As for the new argument - I don't know that "likely" in this context is a realistic take or more wishful thinking. The Palestinian positions on this are not quite as clear cut as some imagine, nor is there a clear consensus on these matters. Obviously, the likelihood of the current Israeli government adopting such a policy is zero.