Order threatens Bangkok’s charm

[jamesbbkk]

“In the US and Europe, known for their advanced development, the governments are allowing more street vendors to operate because the authorities are not able to create enough jobs [for everyone]."

 

This is rubbish. Authorities do not create jobs. Producers do. Governments produce nothing and are always consumers. People such as that quoted here are the people that are supposed to be looking out for regular folks? They are just spreading falsehoods about the role of the state, which as here and as usual is working to constrain jobs by restricting the ability of buyers and sellers to come together. The question is in part about the clout of the restaurant associations and their members, their landlords, and the governments that derive taxes and fees from the related activities.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Chassa said:

Singapore cleaned up Bugis Street many decades ago ( Bar & red-light district. Later they tried to build a sanitised version unfortunately the tourists didn't come to the new one. Guess they're trying the same with street hawkers.

 

Singapore and Bugis Street were fun  in the late 1960s when I was a young lad of 24 but I looked it up on Google Earth recently and I couldn't find or recognise anywhere I used to know.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, cookieqw said:

hors d'oeuvre’s

 

Horses doofers are good for the roses.

[chang1]

As I hate being in a city for more than a few days, I look at this from a visitors point of view. I started coming to Thailand 20 years ago when it was a fun and interesting place. I did not buy an expensive plane ticket and travel for many hours to be in a country that was like Spain. Khao San was always my first stop - a beer and green curry in Lucky Beer while watching mayhem go by. The sights, heat, food and smells all made it exciting after dreary England in winter.

Now I try to get a connecting flight straight out of BKK. I remember back then, lots of complaints about dirt, hygiene, pollution, backpackers, congestion, street food, guest houses in fact almost anything that was different to Spain. Why did these people ever come to a third world country? If you want Spain go to Spain. I married a Thai so now have to stay in LOS. There are still many good things but I definitely would not spend my full 3 months a year in LOS  anymore that I used to. Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines and Indonesia is where I would go but boy would I miss Thai street food. For those snowflakes worried about hygiene, I have never had any problems that affected my visits. I now worry more about the pesticides in the food that cannot be washed off. So to sum up, if you turn Thailand into Spain people will go to Spain as it is cheaper, easier to get to and is better at it. Learn from Singapores mistakes - my first trip to Asia started there back in 82 wow was it good.

[PhonThong]

50 minutes ago, jamesbbkk said:

“In the US and Europe, known for their advanced development, the governments are allowing more street vendors to operate because the authorities are not able to create enough jobs [for everyone]."

 

This is rubbish. Authorities do not create jobs. Producers do. Governments produce nothing and are always consumers. People such as that quoted here are the people that are supposed to be looking out for regular folks? They are just spreading falsehoods about the role of the state, which as here and as usual is working to constrain jobs by restricting the ability of buyers and sellers to come together. The question is in part about the clout of the restaurant associations and their members, their landlords, and the governments that derive taxes and fees from the related activities.

Government is the usually the largest employer and doesn't have to show a profit to stay in business. 

[Megasin1]

although you can feel for what the academics and architects are saying here, historically speaking their track records in urban planning have never been very successful either, imposing a planned solution to an organic growth never really works and neither does design by committee so consulting with the vendors will never achieve anything either, other than more chaos. If there are problems with access or cleanliness a wiser town administration would attempt to deal with those and allow time and social growth to effect a more gradual change. They have now placed themselves in the situation where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't! Unfortunately this is probably very top down motivated and the army should restrict itself to moving troops from point A to point B, which they are good at and leave urban development and change to happen at it's own rate and direction.

[Patanawet]

6 hours ago, markaoffy said:

I would suggest most of these posters don’t live in Bangkok surrounded by vendors ,blocked footpaths, walking on Road ,rats in garbage, aggressive sellers .. and believe it or not 90% of locals, Thais not farang, are happy they’ve gone !


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Well this poster DOES live in Bangkok and uses these very streets every day for 20 years. Now Silom is dead. People used to come just to see the street market and food stalls day and nighttime. For heaven's sake it's a couple of hundred metres from how many thousands in Bangkok?

Oh, and can I see proof of your assertion that 90% of Thais are happier now -- fake news if ever I saw it!

[Jackin1960]

Yes a good cleanup, start with all food vendors and why not close down the street markets and get rid of anyone who touts their goods on the street too. Also close down massage places and arrest all sex workers and the people who run them. Ban drink, smoaking and chewing gum "why not" and insist that Thais dress in tradishional clothing and observe Thainess. Then if there are any tourists they can tour the country and see it for what it is not. 

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, markaoffy said:

I would suggest most of these posters don’t live in Bangkok surrounded by vendors ,blocked footpaths, walking on Road ,rats in garbage, aggressive sellers .. and believe it or not 90% of locals, Thais not farang, are happy they’ve gone !


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I agree with you too, first bit of common sense spoken...

while I don't  want to see all the vendors gone as I do respect that they have to make a living, but if left to their own devices they do take over everywhere & turn into mayhem with little respect given to other people whom they block..

Khao san road a case in point, open to traffic & shopping during the day but vendors allowed to open in the evenings.. seems like a good compromise!

The same can be done to other areas where Thais have taken over to the extreme!

[chang1]

3 minutes ago, Megasin1 said:

although you can feel for what the academics and architects are saying here, historically speaking their track records in urban planning have never been very successful either, imposing a planned solution to an organic growth never really works and neither does design by committee so consulting with the vendors will never achieve anything either, other than more chaos. If there are problems with access or cleanliness a wiser town administration would attempt to deal with those and allow time and social growth to effect a more gradual change. They have now placed themselves in the situation where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't! Unfortunately this is probably very top down motivated and the army should restrict itself to moving troops from point A to point B, which they are good at and leave urban development and change to happen at it's own rate and direction.

The problem is you can't carry out urban planning on top of organic growth. If the planners had empty fields to start with they could make things work. In BKK planners have to prioritise things which means there are going to be losers. They cannot make the pavements wider as it will disrupt traffic forcing more people to walk, bringing more customers to the street stalls. Who are more important - car drivers or street hawkers? This obviously will be different at every location and depend on who you ask. Then you have to look at the long term, what kind of city do you want to have. A modern efficient money making machine or somewhere that people would like to live or visit? I live in northern England in a small pleasant city. I certainly would never want to live in the hell hole that is London but many do. Or are they only there for the money? I like the 15 foot wide sandstone pavement with trees in outside my house and don't want the road made wider. This may mean a slightly lower average wage here but for me it is worth it. Would I like it full of unregulated dirty street food stalls spilling oil everywhere? Not so sure but if they were popular, profitable and I could set one up, maybe.

[manchega]

no point thailand attempting to copy singapore,

 

singapore has laws which are followed or penalised for 

 

Thailand... well it does'nt

 

 

[AsiaHand]

4 hours ago, CGW said:

"Bangkok charm" what charm? if you visit for a couple of days and enjoy some crappy street food and riding in a noisy tuk tuk, breathing in the obnoxious filth of the city - great, then get away to somewhere where you are not fighting traffic & filth ? Doubt those that are moaning about the "loss" actually live or have lived there!

Been coming here or living here for over 50 years mate and yes Bangkok had its charm.as did Saigon Singapore  and Hong Kong of the 1960s and 1970s. Granted these cities was far less safe and had less places to find western food but they drew you into living outside of your established bubble and to experience their way of existence in life.This was the charm of Asia  though a bit different for the different cities but you could learn to love it if you just let yourself feel it.

[Pedrogaz]

I don't find these hawkers blocking the pavements to be charming. They are a nuisance forcing pedestrians into the road to avoid them. I guess that's OK if the road is closed to traffic.....but.....it's not OK on the vast majority of soil and major roads where idiot drivers scramble to see who get to the next traffic light one second faster where they wait for two minutes at the light.

[fullcave]

Yeah, Pat Pong market also opens at 6 PM and it's packed. During the day you can actually drive a car down that soi. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by fullcave

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Sprigger said:

90 % of locals happy to see it gone, probably have other means of making a living. Have some consideration you selfish <deleted>.

 

Have you spoken to 100% of the locals in Khao San road lately yo come up with your figure of 90%? Have you even spoken to any of them?

[wvavin]

9 hours ago, RotMahKid said:

They want to make a second Singapore of Bangkok, but it will be a great failure.

Just looks at the infrastructure it already suck now and don't even look what is beneath the road the maintenance and expansion of sinks, gutters and sewers, just with a little bit of rain it's flooding and all the dirt what's in it comes flooding around.

They even can't keep the city clean for now as long everybody just throw away everything everywhere. Do I have to go on?

Just take away the jobs of people and the fun for the tourist, yes that will help, shame on that fake government! 

Compare to Singapore? It is a very serious, I mean real serious joke! 

[chang1]

9 hours ago, chicowoodduck said:

There is a good reason why they call it a footpath....it is for foot traffic....not the hawkers......?

They are pavements, footpaths are normally away from roads.

[Jack P]

This takes  away the independence and dignity for many people who want to work their own business for a living and serve people.

[chang1]

10 hours ago, markaoffy said:

I would suggest most of these posters don’t live in Bangkok surrounded by vendors ,blocked footpaths, walking on Road ,rats in garbage, aggressive sellers .. and believe it or not 90% of locals, Thais not farang, are happy they’ve gone !


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I do find it hard to believe 90% of locals are for this. Do you have any proof of that? I can believe that 90% of hiso snobs would be happy but not your average local Thai as they are the customers of these stalls.

[chang1]

8 hours ago, akirasan said:

Can't get tanks down a street if it's been half blocked off by food vendors. The military is just planning ahead.

I could.

[kingstonkid]

The beauty of thailnad is not being ruined by the street vendors it is being ruined by these old abandoned buildings that because no one has to pay anythiThere are 4 areas that i spend my time so I will comment nn each.

 

KHAOSAN

The vendors in the market area should stay the ones on the streets leading to it should be given an area to set up not on the sidewalks.

 

SALADAENG/ sIAM PATPONG AREA 

 

They cleared the main street and allowed people to set up after 7 and on the side streets.  To me, this was an improvement and has not cost any food stalls.

 

NANA

Oh god, I am glad all those clothing and sex stalls are closed.  They caused more confusion than anything.  Now if they want to set up during the evening like Silom Patpong then go for it.  During the day the street is for business people.

 

SIAM SQUARE

 

On the side streets I see no problem nor do I see on one the main roads as long as they are regulated to a certain number.  The solution of course to this and other areas is to tear down some of the god-awful buildings that have been derelict for decades and set up a marketplace..

 

 

[bangkoken]

Mr. Prime Minister with all due respect sir, allow me to give you the definition of Ego:    

                                                           

                                                                    “Ego, is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity”

[DJ54]

These areas are awesome for tourist and locals to try different 

food and a bit of fun together. As long as the place is cleaned up 

after business.......(they)(those)(IT) that don’t like it should bark up another tree...

 

Did I safely get around the computer law without calling the kettle black..... Enjoy the weekend 

[chang1]

55 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

NANA

Oh god, I am glad all those clothing and sex stalls are closed.  They caused more confusion than anything.  Now if they want to set up during the evening like Silom Patpong then go for it.  During the day the street is for business people.

This is your solution but we all see things differently. One thing I disagree with is, you think business people should be given special privileges. Absolutely not, money gives them enough privileges they should not be able to claim any advantages in public spaces. The hawkers are business people only on a different scale. They cannot afford to buy buildings and let them rot as the land goes up in value like your wealthy business people can. 

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts have been removed. 

[rtr4]

14 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

Another brilliant idea General. The footpaths should be empty for the people who, because of this emptiness, will no longer come to walk them.

 

 

Exactly! I havent been in bkk for couple of years and want to show the friend who was first time in Thailand the MBK amd Pratunam area. As i remeber it was it full of life amd mamy vendors. Now the place is empty amd boring. For me no reason to come back. Iwant to keep the picture of lively vibrant place in my mind amd do not want get disappointed.  Another example is Sanam Luang. In older days dusty place but full of life on occasions. Now fenced place. The green is nice but...

[Jonathan Swift]

Following in the economic genius footsteps of Trump. 

[dpspike]

There are street vendors all over Bangkok. Heck, there are street vendors all over Thailand. Seems the government is only targeting particular areas. Why is that?

I'm surprised the vendors don't just move to the street using push carts. Thais routinely park in the road impeding traffic, and the police don't do anything about that.

[rosst]

22 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This desire for "order" is simply an extension of the Junta's 'life-sucking', 'fun-killing' agenda for the Kingdom.

 

The joy of Thailand, and the reason so many people come here and come back here, is the vibrancy of its people and the glorious cultural inclination to have fun; "Sanook!!!"

 

This campaign of cleaning up the streets is killing so much of what is good and fun about Bangkok; the joy of street food, the vibrancy of the street stalls, the laughter of touts trying to get you into their shops, the winks and nods of the working girls, the beautiful smiles of the shopkeepers, the smile of the passers-by, etc; they are all extensions of the basic Thai/Bangkokian "Joie De Vivre".

 

I said it in another thread, but a friend noted that the Junta's plan for Bangkok was to create a place with;

 

'All the charm of an army base, but without the ambiance'

 

And he had it right. Bangkok/Thailand's main attraction isn't the architecture, it isn't the convenience of the transportation system, it isn't the shopping opportunities, etc, it is the vibrancy and joy of the people.

 

Stop this 'order' nonsense and promote "Sanook!!!"

 

 

I could not have said it with such eloquence, it reminds me of the sanitation of Singapore and the destruction of Bugis Street. 

Terribly sad. 

[mal2018]

22 hours ago, markaoffy said:

I would suggest most of these posters don’t live in Bangkok surrounded by vendors ,blocked footpaths, walking on Road ,rats in garbage, aggressive sellers .. and believe it or not 90% of locals, Thais not farang, are happy they’ve gone !


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That should keep the foreigners out!