Trump tells Apple to make products in U.S. to avoid China tariffs

[Franko666]

5 hours ago, Lungstib said:

American businesses are going to be pretty pissed off at a President who causes their products to rise 10% in price due to tariffs. American consumers are going to be paying those increased prices, they too will not be happy bunnies. But then again, this will be only the first installment in price increases because when those parts are all made in the factories rebuilt and returned to the USA prices will double due to paying higher wages. US companies voluntarily moved their businesses to Asia for low prices and higher profits which have made owners extremely wealthy. I see no happy ending to this.

Yep, the American worker may be paying more at the till however he now has a job so I suspect he /she/ it can afford to pay.

[Lungstib]

7 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Trump is correcting what was not only bad for the American workers, but was bad for Chinese workers, and was (and still is) a deliberate manipulation of the currency system.

But does that correction foresee these jobs returning to the USA with the exact same workers wages that the Chinese are currently accepting? American workers already have abysmally low hourly wage rates but still far more than the Asians are working for. Given that rents and living costs in the USA are demanding $15 an hour minimum (and thats still poverty wages) what would Apple be expected to pay people assembling their products at home? It aint going to work is it.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Making America Great again - yeehaa !!  As someone that worked in IT for many eyars, I can assure you the ONLY reason they all moved to China, Taiwan etc etc was that the swamp let them. It was all about profits for the rich and the shareholders - not a thought about all the jobs lost.  The same thing why call centres all went to India etc.  Profits. And all fully supported by those mentioned before, who had 'created' the term Global Economy.  Meanwhile slave labour in China was abused and nil working conditions or rights were allowed.  And China also manipulated its currency to keep it low and make its exports cheaper.  Trump is correcting what was not only bad for the American workers, but was bad for Chinese workers, and was (and still is) a deliberate manipulation of the currency system.

  

He is correcting nothing, only letting US customers pay more for their products.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Franko666 said:

Yep, the American worker may be paying more at the till however he now has a job so I suspect he /she/ it can afford to pay.

Many companies go out of business as they cant afford ne new import prices for the parts they need. 

[Kiwiken]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wonder how long it takes to build a factory to produce ‘Apple’ products, build the factories to supply the basic components and materials, procure, install and commission the production machinery and systems, establish the supply logistics, find and train the necessary staff?

Yes and I am sure they will sell just fine at US$6000 each. No doubt the US consumer will not mind the price difference to get a genuine made in America product.

Yes Trump will make America great again. A great overpriced place to be. Will you make your levis in the USA again or do you prefer them to be US$36 for made in Mexico or US$96 made in USA?? There is a price for protectinism

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Companies have a worldwide success by moving the factory to the cheap labour (China) or bringing the cheap labour to the factory (Mexicans and no wall). 

Yes, you may end up with a captive US market and everyone is happy to pay more because it has "Made in US" on the box, the rest of the world isnt going to buy the now expensive product.

You have gone from selling iphones to the whole world to selling iphones to 300 million Americans. Who will buy their next phone in some grey parallel import economy or when on holidays.

Might point out that the squeeze on the working middle clas over the past 30-40 years results in far fewer than a 300 million person market able to afford to buy the higher priced goods. There is a reason they are shopping cheap imported goods at Walmart.....

[AsiaHand]

And then the iphone will cost $5,000.00 .Next stupid  order sir ?

[Esso49]

7 hours ago, BestB said:

Really? So how much are you worth??

Shouldn't you have asked the question how much do you owe the banks compared to Trump  ?

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

[DJ54]

Most Chinese are very proud of their country and will stand by their country especially if they see the US is being unreasonable. I’ve a few 

customers in China. Here’s portions of email. They will look for ways to get around what they see as problem. 

 

A very large company I do work for ranked less than 120 on Fortune 500

list. Asked what from a corporate stance are you going to do? Answer

a team is looking through several thousand products to see what can be produced some where besides US.

 

US manufactures selling to Chinese market don’t have a lot of choices.

Eat margin?  Maybe some. These days a lot of margins are slim and can’t be reduced. It’s going to be a tough one if Mr. T keeps pushing .....

 

From one customer and the list grows everyday. 

 

China and the United State are embroiled in a trade dispute. As result,Chinese customs published a list of products imported from the US that will be 

subject to an addittional  25% tariffs beginning on Aug.23,2018.Unfortunately,this list includes the products that we purchased from you.Also exchange ratio rised 8% aro from the early of this year till now. results cost of connector increased to 35%. It seriously impacts the local market.The end-users couldn’t absorb the Cost rising.So the market may change or replace

1.       To choose the local manufactures to replace

2.       To choose Amphonal to replace it (with original factory not in the US)

 

[Tug]

We’re is the adult in the room when you need them?

[Nyezhov]

12 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

In the WW2 era, tolerances for manufactured products were not measured in microns.

Nor were the capabilities of machinery. Unlike today. Make a part with a Bridgeport manually, or using a punch tape, then try a 4 axis CNC.

 

My comment was not directed at capability (because clearly the capability of modern manufacturing methods far outstrips that of even 10 years ago) but merely at the will to undertake an effort. 

[farcanell]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wonder how long it takes to build a factory to produce ‘Apple’ products, build the factories to supply the basic components and materials, procure, install and commission the production machinery and systems, establish the supply logistics, find and train the necessary staff?

Easier to wait trump out and deal with whoever resets the universe.

[farcanell]

8 hours ago, Franko666 said:

Yep, the American worker may be paying more at the till however he now has a job so I suspect he /she/ it can afford to pay.

Cart before the horse, really.

 

first you have to force the companies to set up US operations to service the  US market....(because the rest of the world will still buy Chinese)

 

then you have to “set up” operations.... this will take years... but regardless, I doubt anyone will consider returning to US wage markups, unless trumpist win in November, and even then, perhaps not until the manufacturing world is faced with a second term

 

trying to compete with an established business like chinas cheap phone output, at about $2 an hour wages, seems an impossible ask for the US

 

anyway... tariffs are happening now, so the suffering begins now for effected markets.... not when the people have those jobs, some time in the future, if at all.

 

 

[BestB]

2 hours ago, Esso49 said:

Shouldn't you have asked the question how much do you owe the banks compared to Trump  ?

Oh you think banks lend money without collateral ? Or some kind of guarantees? 

 

Maybe what you wanted to say was borrowing capacity ? 

[BestB]

22 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Cart before the horse, really.

 

first you have to force the companies to set up US operations to service the  US market....(because the rest of the world will still buy Chinese)

 

then you have to “set up” operations.... this will take years... but regardless, I doubt anyone will consider returning to US wage markups, unless trumpist win in November, and even then, perhaps not until the manufacturing world is faced with a second term

 

trying to compete with an established business like chinas cheap phone output, at about $2 an hour wages, seems an impossible ask for the US

 

anyway... tariffs are happening now, so the suffering begins now for effected markets.... not when the people have those jobs, some time in the future, if at all.

 

 

No one was forcing anyone to do anything .

 

Its pure economics, if moving back to US is more profitable than staying in China than this is what companies will do.

 

And no, it’s not cart before horse . If people have a job they have spending power , without one it’s irrelevant how much goods cost as they can not afford it anyway.

 

[The Theory]

Great work ??

It was a huge mistake at the first place.

Save America, stop feeding China. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by The Theory

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, Franko666 said:

Yep, the American worker may be paying more at the till however he now has a job so I suspect he /she/ it can afford to pay.

Most likely not a very good paying job. Wages for people on production lines and in non supervisory jobs fell slightly in 2017 while out of pockets health care costs increased. 

[candide]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

No one was forcing anyone to do anything .

 

Its pure economics, if moving back to US is more profitable than staying in China than this is what companies will do.

 

And no, it’s not cart before horse . If people have a job they have spending power , without one it’s irrelevant how much goods cost as they can not afford it anyway.

 

It's not that simple. You forget a few details:

- China can buy from other countries, i.e. buy Airbus instead of Boeing. Europe, Japan and South Korean (among others) can supply easy  substitutes for most US products

- products manufactured in the USA instead of China may be harder to sell abroad as they will be more expensive

- products integrating Chinese components may be harder to export

- re-sourcing production in the USA is likely to trigger more automatisation.

 

All in all, it is absolutely not certain that a higher tariff policy against China will ultimately result in more jobs

 

[Trouble]

18 hours ago, Lungstib said:

American businesses are going to be pretty pissed off at a President who causes their products to rise 10% in price due to tariffs. American consumers are going to be paying those increased prices, they too will not be happy bunnies. But then again, this will be only the first installment in price increases because when those parts are all made in the factories rebuilt and returned to the USA prices will double due to paying higher wages. US companies voluntarily moved their businesses to Asia for low prices and higher profits which have made owners extremely wealthy. I see no happy ending to this.

One pays a premium for Apple products. I switched to Apple computers years ago and they work flawlessly. Apple iPhones etc and other products also great. All updates free and automatic.  Since people pay a premium for the products most would not hesitate in paying another 10%. Apple certainly could bring some of the manufacture back to the USA still buying certain components in China.  After all a 10% tariff on cheaply produced components is not that significant and Apple products produced for world consumption could still be made in China. Revenues from the Americas account for less than half of Apple revenues. The iPhone alone counts for about 1/2 of Apple total revenues. So tariffs would only affect less than 1/2 of Apple revenues. The whole point in manufacturing in American is to create jobs and income for Americans. I certainly don't mind paying a little additional if it is producing jobs, income, and in the end payroll taxes for America. Maybe Apple should see how it can create such manufacturing jobs that complete the assembly in the USA. Certainly one has to realize that tariffs on components are not the same as a completed product. 

[BestB]

3 hours ago, candide said:

It's not that simple. You forget a few details:

- China can buy from other countries, i.e. buy Airbus instead of Boeing. Europe, Japan and South Korean (among others) can supply easy  substitutes for most US products

- products manufactured in the USA instead of China may be harder to sell abroad as they will be more expensive

- products integrating Chinese components may be harder to export

- re-sourcing production in the USA is likely to trigger more automatisation.

 

All in all, it is absolutely not certain that a higher tariff policy against China will ultimately result in more jobs

 

Many if’s and yes China could buy airbus if it was cheaper price just like they could buy Russian made . Such as life and choices .

 

But that has little to do with some companies moving back to US if conditions are beneficial.

 

In Apples case, people will still buy Apple for its brand and functions not for where it’s made or if it was slightly cheaper or more expansive. 

 

 

[candide]

5 minutes ago, BestB said:

Many if’s and yes China could buy airbus if it was cheaper price just like they could buy Russian made . Such as life and choices .

 

But that has little to do with some companies moving back to US if conditions are beneficial.

 

In Apples case, people will still buy Apple for its brand and functions not for where it’s made or if it was slightly cheaper or more expansive. 

 

 

No "if". In China the government de facto controls most capital goods and infrastructure equipment procurements: telecoms, transportation, banks, etc... They will just blacklist US firms whenever it's possible.

 

As for the role of price  and costs, ask any senior executive. Increasing production costs either leads to less sales because of higher prices, or reduced profits by keeping competitive prices.

[BestB]

1 minute ago, candide said:

No "if". In China the government de facto controls most capital goods and infrastructure equipment procurements: telecoms, transportation, banks, etc... They will just blacklist US firms whenever it's possible.

 

As for the role of price  and costs, ask any senior executive. Increasing production costs either leads to less sales because of higher prices, or reduced profits by keeping competitive prices.

So let’s say for example tax free 10 years followed by 50% tax breaks for the following 10 reduce or increase profits ?

 

And in this case, when was Apple business model based on competitiveness ?

[JimmyTheMook]

19 hours ago, stevenl said:

Pure marketing, Apple is still a premium brand.

They have lost and continue to lose a huge market shares to Samsung and Huawei in the mobile phone arena.

Tim Cook blows legless goats.

[Ks45672]

20 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Well they have had the chance ever since they started producing phones to build that factory, isn't it.

 

An American company that has to complain about import tariffs on their products clearly can't be an American company.

 

I don't understand why the US people keep buying overpriced phones from a company that doesn't even pays taxes in the US on those immense prrofits.

 

Foxconn who produces phones for Apple and other companies announced long time ago that they will start production in the US.

You could  say the same things about amazon, ebay Starbucks etc and many people like to attack them for avoiding tax legally..... 

 

It just seems a bit ironic when the guy throwing the mud is also a sleazy billionaire who won't release his tax records... ?

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-not-paying-taxes-trump-bezos-2018-4

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/25/from-seattle-to-luxembourg-how-tax-schemes-shaped-amazon

 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/04/08/trump-is-right-amazon-is-a-master-of-tax-avoidance.aspx

 

 

 

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, Trouble said:

One pays a premium for Apple products. I switched to Apple computers years ago and they work flawlessly. Apple iPhones etc and other products also great. All updates free and automatic.  Since people pay a premium for the products most would not hesitate in paying another 10%. Apple certainly could bring some of the manufacture back to the USA still buying certain components in China.  After all a 10% tariff on cheaply produced components is not that significant and Apple products produced for world consumption could still be made in China. Revenues from the Americas account for less than half of Apple revenues. The iPhone alone counts for about 1/2 of Apple total revenues. So tariffs would only affect less than 1/2 of Apple revenues. The whole point in manufacturing in American is to create jobs and income for Americans. I certainly don't mind paying a little additional if it is producing jobs, income, and in the end payroll taxes for America. Maybe Apple should see how it can create such manufacturing jobs that complete the assembly in the USA. Certainly one has to realize that tariffs on components are not the same as a completed product. 

"Since people pay a premium for the products most would not hesitate in paying another 10%."

If that were the case, Apple would have happily been charging 10% more and pocket that.

[Zack61]

On 9/9/2018 at 7:28 AM, Lungstib said:

American businesses are going to be pretty pissed off at a President who causes their products to rise 10% in price due to tariffs. American consumers are going to be paying those increased prices, they too will not be happy bunnies. But then again, this will be only the first installment in price increases because when those parts are all made in the factories rebuilt and returned to the USA prices will double due to paying higher wages. US companies voluntarily moved their businesses to Asia for low prices and higher profits which have made owners extremely wealthy. I see no happy ending to this.

Just a normal massage is it?

[whatsupdoc]

4 hours ago, JimmyTheMook said:

They have lost and continue to lose a huge market shares to Samsung and Huawei in the mobile phone arena.

Tim Cook blows legless goats.

If Apple cared about market shares it would produce cheap phones. Apple doesn't because it makes far more profit on their phones than Samsung or Huawei.

So yes, Apple is a premium brand and very successful at that.

[farcanell]

7 hours ago, BestB said:

So let’s say for example tax free 10 years followed by 50% tax breaks for the following 10 reduce or increase profits ?

 

And in this case, when was Apple business model based on competitiveness ?

Lmao.

 

yes... your scenario sounds spot on.... although to simplify the process, maybe it would be easier to just give welfare to unemployed factory workers, after all, this is only a blip in economic history, soon to be rectified, once trump has been cockolded in November, and ultimately replaced by someone smarter than a sixth grader

 

 

[farcanell]

13 hours ago, BestB said:

No one was forcing anyone to do anything .

 

Its pure economics, if moving back to US is more profitable than staying in China than this is what companies will do.

 

And no, it’s not cart before horse . If people have a job they have spending power , without one it’s irrelevant how much goods cost as they can not afford it anyway.

 

Lol... again.... your amusing, if nothing else.

 

trump is trying to force Apple to act..... they, and all phone makers, deliberately decided to manufacture elsewhere... it was a deliberate decision to reduce  costs.

 

they ain’t coming back, unless they are forced.... as in thru economic sanctions, such as is being discussed.

 

tariffs and tax breaks.... lol... tax breaks that will adversely effect the tax payer... much like tariffs effect the tax payer.... poor tax payer... so sad... (something trump doesn’t have to worry about... so glad)

 

its quite obvious that Apple etc etc etc, don’t want to operate in the US.... they complained about it, right?.... ergo.... to return, it’s in kicking and screaming mode ( as in forced)

 

what y’all need is a tariff on ball caps, from what I see of “made in China trump products.”