THAI plans swift upgrade of fleet to reverse losses

[Oziex1]

2 hours ago, Esso49 said:

Now reading between the lines the partial quote " THAI AIRWAYS International must revamp its business strategy and quickly finalise a multibillion-baht plan to buy new jetliners in order to tackle chronic losses, says deputy premier Somkid Jatusripitak."  should be taken to read perhaps as;-

 

We need to order as many new planes as possible prior to us getting kicked out of office at the next election, as there is a massive amount of money "to be gained" from a multi-billion baht plane order.

Yep,  so what to do with the 100billion. A fleet of 2nd hand Cessnas  that can sit rotting on the ground. 

[happy chappie]

Looks like party time for all the Thai air executives flying around the globe,champagne parties at airbus,Boeing.also a good time for upgrading their bank accounts with some mega sized envelopes like in the rolls Royce scandle that seems to of been brushed neatly under the carpet.

[Catkiwi]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Why not increase the prices to make more money?

They have already, just recently hiked up their air fares claiming new fuel surcharges as the reason...

[Catkiwi]

5 hours ago, Thian said:

Well they can't cut on the foodportions anymore so maybe the seats will get smaller this time?

Ha ha, the seats surely can't get much smaller?

[orchidfan]

2 hours ago, Knocker33 said:

Amazing how they all use the higher fuel price B. S. when fuel prices are lower than a few years ago and fuel surcharges were never lowered when fuel prices dropped

Agreed . All airlines face the same fuel prices, not just Thai. Some are clever and hedge so they don't get stung with price fluctuations.

The old 747's just gulp down tons more fuel compared to new series 777's and 787.

A lot (not all) of cabin crew mope around with sad faces like they've been given a death sentence ...compare that to the happy smiling cabin staff on AirAsia or EK!

Everybody is competing and TG have to lift their game or face the consequences.

 

 

[bbz404]

26 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

They could also improve the FF program, reduce miles needed for upgrade and flight awards, and make it easier to get to Star Alliance Gold.  Currently with Royal Orchid Plus it takes 50K miles in one year to get Gold for only one year then you have to requalify.  With Asiana you only need 40K miles accumulated in 2 years and you get an additional 2 years at Gold status.  

That's incorrect. You will get 2 years gold when you first fulfill the requirements and 2 years more when renewing. 

[killala]

Thai I’m afraid are so far behind the times. Clueless at the helm. Complete overhaul of the company with professionals that actually know how to run an airline is the way forward, sink or swim time. 

[Chris Lawrence]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI AIRWAYS International must revamp its business strategy and quickly finalise a multibillion-baht plan to buy new jetliners in order to tackle chronic losses, says deputy premier Somkid Jatusripitak.

A very important person in Thaksin Government.

 

In 1997, Somkid co-authored "The Marketing of Nations: A Strategic Approach to Building National Wealth" with Philip Kotler. The book outlined how countries could improve their competitiveness through marketing and appropriate policies to support it.^[2] Somkid's book, Borisat Prathet Thai ("Thailand Inc: Concepts and Strategy"), stressed how Thailand should use marketing to improve its competitiveness. Wikipedia.

 

Its very different world as an academic to what actually happens in the real world. Somkid primarily has been an academic.

5 hours ago, webfact said:

The Chairman of the Board of Directors of THAI, Dr. Ekniti Nitithanprapas, said the event was held to explain the guideline for implementing aviation restoration and strategic planning, after it was approved by the State Enterprise Policy Committee last week. 

A lot of fingers in the pie, just to come to a decision?

 

6 hours ago, webfact said:

The aircraft acquisition plan, which initially calls for the purchase of 23 new jetliners,

Wouldn't they need 3-4 times this many new planes to cover their aging fleet?

 

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Besides digital technology, he said the airline would aggressively pursue profits, reformulate its business portfolio, boost customer experience and implement a more effective human capital management programme.

Subject to agreement by all the sub-committees, the Prime Minister, the Air Force and anyone else that has a hand in the pie?

[mr_lob]

i got an idea - have a 'crackdown' on all these pesky foreign, better value airlines flying in to Thailand. Boom! Monopoly!

[newnative]

Start by lowering fares. THAI almost always among the highest listed any time I search fares.

[Dibbler]

3 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

That's incorrect. You will get 2 years gold when you first fulfill the requirements and 2 years more when renewing. 

Nope its correct, I qualified with 40K Asiana and Star Alliance airlines in 14 months, and got 2 years and 10 months of Star Alliance Gold status

[Chris Lawrence]

3 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

Agreed . All airlines face the same fuel prices, not just Thai. Some are clever and hedge so they don't get stung with price fluctuations.

The old 747's just gulp down tons more fuel compared to new series 777's and 787.

A lot (not all) of cabin crew mope around with sad faces like they've been given a death sentence ...compare that to the happy smiling cabin staff on AirAsia or EK!

Everybody is competing and TG have to lift their game or face the consequences.

 

 

last time on Thai Air I was told next time I want a drink come to their station to get it? Says a lot. Also asked to sit in seats near the exit doors where no one was sitting, told that was for anyone who got sick. Aren't you supposed to be fit and healthy to sit in those seats. Go figure.

[orchidfan]

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Welcome to Thai cabin crew / ground crew arrogance.

 

Yes. The number of times Thai...the national carrier is relegated to an outer apron parking bay and pax bussed in? Have never had that with CX at HKIA or BA at LHR!

That's liason with ATC and Apron control. Thai accept being treated like a cheap low cost carrier.

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Wildliferescue said:

The solution is easy and right on this page. The ThaiVisa members have clearly shown they know all the answers to this problem of Thai Airways! I suggest we make the ThaiVisa bunch the new board of directors, problem solved. 

The first thought was they would be able to turn it 'round. Then I read the OP in full and realised that putting the TVforum members in charge would have other advantages.

 

01 Food: Cheesburgers, or cod 'n' chips at every meal.

 

02 Board meetings: Much quicker; shorter names. Fred instead of Phatimonhiotmuriti.

 

03: Cheaper BKK to Luton fares: Promotion fare (for 10 years) 50 squids (100 return).

 

04: Save fuel: Copy the Ruskies. Get up to 40k feet above, turn all engines off, glide down to 10k and start them up again.

 

05: Free drinks: 5 free pints of Watney's Red Barrel for all travellers. Don't drink!? No worries; more for everyone else.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2018 by owl sees all

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Why not increase the prices to make more money?

Because the seat cost is highly competitive, put up prices and customers will go to another airline.

The best way to go is look inwards at the whole structure of the business administration, is it efficient, productive

is the technology up to date?

That's where the big savings are to be found.. yes fuel prices may be higher but that's pretty much a level playing field across the board, presuming they've made fuel purchase price agreements well ahead of fuel cost hikes?

Streamline the business end first then look at seat prices.. not raise prices first losing customers, then lose more money with an outdated low efficiency business operation!

[Redline]

The government should sell all of its businesses-period

[shaurene]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Why not increase the prices to make more money?

 

2 hours ago, swifty5x5 said:

That's the Thai way.

 

 

2 hours ago, swifty5x5 said:

That's the Thai way.

 

They did this a few years back and are suffering for it. They are not competitive any more, 

And stop giving free flights to the rich and government people. This is one of the biggest faults with Thai. The CEO should be left to run the company and not have to ask the government if he can do this or that.

Will never change sorry to say.

[bbz404]

12 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

Nope its correct, I qualified with 40K Asiana and Star Alliance airlines in 14 months, and got 2 years and 10 months of Star Alliance Gold status

What's incorrect is that you would get only one year on THAI. It's 2 years when accumulating 50k miles in 1 year or 80k miles within 2 years. And 2 years validity after each renewal as well. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by bbz404

[Naamblar2014]

9 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Thai never flew that route when I worked there, the only choice was Silk Air to SIN then SIN - BKK on SQ.

Quite right.  No direct flight with Thai. You can get there via Sydney and then use a domesti flight but that flight is rediculous 38,000 baht. Bad example and not a fair comparison.  How about . jetstar- BKK to Melbourne 5090 baht available 11 Nov till 8 Dec.Thai 17,415 baht one way on 11 Dec. Better than a budget airline,  perhaps,  but 3 times the cost

[Dibbler]

1 minute ago, bbz404 said:

What's incorrect is that you would get only one year on THAI. It's 2 years when accumulating 50k miles in 1 year or 80k miles within 2 years. And 2 years validity after each renewal as well. 

Ok that is new as at the time I was deciding how to go for Gold, THAI Royal Orchid was offering only 1 year of Gold status.  If it's 2 years after qualifying its much better.  But still not nearly good as the deal with Asiana Club where I have more than 2 years after only only first needing 40K qualifying miles and 2 years in which to do it.

[Kadilo]

Blimey I must be getting in a different Thai Airline. The one I get on from LHR is usually as cheap if not cheaper as any other direct flight, cheaper than BA which are crap planes and service. I’ve always found TA,s service to be ok, several drink and food offerings, food ok, pleasant staff as opposed to BA whose staff I never saw the whole flight after take off. 

 

And best of all, plenty of empty seats so usually at least 2 each if not more on occasions......cattle class obviously. 

 

[sebastion]

One BILLION Baht a month losses in last quarter !!!!!! Wow, if that was anywhere else the entire board would have been wiped away, and replaced with intelligent managers / directors by now...

That's equated to 1 million USD loss per day.
It's staggering.

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk

[Bangkok Barry]

Here's a clue for the THAI board: stop charging more for an inferior service. Simple, really.

[Cadbury]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI plans swift upgrade of fleet to reverse losses

Thai Airways being fully government owned means this upgrade is at taxpayers expense. Unfortunately for taxpayers they are also funding the ongoing losses by this airline which through poor management has developed itself into a high cost/low quality airline.

I suspect the usual government nepotism and the Peter Principle (people being promoted to the level of their incompetence) has had much to do with the ongoing failure of Thai Airways.  

With the junta now in charge the Company has even less hope of turning itself around.

[Dazinoz]

   1 hour ago,  Dazinoz said: 

A bit off topic but I can never understand why so many empty gates with air bridges and they do this. Took my baby son to Oz earlier this year. Had him in his stroller, a bag with his feeds, diapers, change of clothes,etc and also carrying a large pillow. Down the air bridge and was directed to a bus, down flights of stairs carrying all the stuff and no one helped down the stairs, in or out the bus and up the stairs into the plane. 

 

21 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Welcome to Thai cabin crew / ground crew arrogance.

 

 

The security staff just as bad. Had to put stroller through X-ray machine. Took son out and tried to fold stroller with other had. Security trying to hurry me up and I stated I only had one free hand. Lady security officer then came and helped me.

 

I had booked a bulkhead seat for the long flight with him because I thought easier and hoping adjacent seat empty. I asked cabin attendant was seat taken and he said he didn't know. Just before we were ready to taxi chief steward came and asked me did i want a seat with armrests that folded. Obviously I said yes. Then he directed a row of three empty seats. Laid my son across 2 and I sat in the third aisle seat. Very much appreciated. Cabin staff brought me a life vest for son but no seatbelt extension and didn't even bother to check if I had him strapped in but I did have to nurse him on take off and landing.

[Laza 45]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

A bit off topic but I can never understand why so many empty gates with air bridges and they do this. Took my baby son to Oz earlier this year. Had him in his stroller, a bag with his feeds, diapers, change of clothes,etc and also carrying a large pillow. Down the air bridge and was directed to a bus, down flights of stairs carrying all the stuff and no one helped down the stairs, in or out the bus and up the stairs into the plane. 

The cheapest option for the airline..

[Wanpi]

They need to make people "want" to fly Thai - that is definitely not the case at the moment.  Tired aircraft, cabin crew that think they are doing you a favour, ridiculously high fares for a third rate Asian carrier etc etc.  

 

Singapore Airlines costs are undoubtedly higher than Thai's but they seem able to do it.

[Oztruckie]

2 hours ago, Chao Lao Beach said:

The cash cow are the premium seat, (biz class etc), every man and his soi dog who hold any rank in the Gov or Military get passes and these are confirmed, not standby filling extra seats on THAI and the fill up the premium seats with these with no revenue.  There was an article a few years ago where on some routes, some 80% of Biz seats on THAI were FOC.

 

We recently bought a ticket from Oz to BKK, $702 on Qantas/EK (Full service with 30kg) or $1280 on TG. 

And their biz class tickets to and from Oz about 1k aud more than emirates,until they get away from the Thai logic, when low passenger numbers we increase price of ticket. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, BoganInParasite said:

A fleet upgrade is but one factor in a recovery. I've half a work lifetime in airlines and once flew Thai quite regularly. My top of the head recovery list would include:

• Fleet upgrade and rationalization (newer aircraft, less types)
• Half the board, the CEO and at least half the top execs to be experienced and foreign airline execs
• Reduced government ownership and removal of government participation in decision making
• Cut prices now (to chase volume)
• Drastic reduction in free VVIP/VIP tickets
• 25% staff numbers reduction
• Refresh on-board product and lounges (hard and soft elements)
• Retrain customer facing staff in providing genuine customer service
• Sell loss making subsidiaries

Or just sell it to Singapore Airlines.

Nice points.

 

I flew Thai inter as much as 3 return regional flights a week for around 12 years (Bkk, S'pore, Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, Shanghai, Manila, KL, Jakarta, Denpasar, Mumbai, Delhi).

 

99% of these flights on Thai inter because it was strict company policy (MNC) to patronize the national airline of wherever the employee was stationed (Bkk).  Arrogance, rudeness, poor service all rampant in both economy and business class, and regular rudeness to Thai passengers.

 

In the same time period my consulting company (same MNC) won many high cost organizational contracts with the same airline, in Bkk.

 

So my additional comments in Italiques:

 

• Reduced government ownership and removal of government participation in decision making (as per the S'pore Airlines excellent and highly successful example).
• Cut prices now (to chase volume) Yes, in many very competitive industries from time to time there must be bus. strategies aimed at gaining customer numbers (market share by customer numbers), especially in the airline business.
• Drastic reduction in free VVIP/VIP tickets. Agree, like a 90% reduction, there is no valid reason to give out such enormous numbers of freebies. 
• 25% staff numbers reduction. Ultimately staff numbers should be based on comparisons of viable staff numbers seen in successful competing airline companies for equivalent size of operation. Plus all (repeat all) cost revealed - no operating costs hidden in other  gov't agencies. 
• Refresh on-board product and lounges (hard and soft elements). Agree, It's well proven in numerous real examples that a major factor needed for successful change is that both staff and customers must see, must actively notice, must fee that 'everything is different.'
• Retrain customer facing staff in providing genuine customer service. yes and ensure that arrogance etc., Yes, but I would suggest a major retrenchment to get rid of dead wood and staff with poor attitude, attitude that the are special and entitled. All of this is currently ingrown in the whole organization. Perhaps even bring in a customer service training team from S'pore airlines to build and implement a new model and actually do all the training for say 2 years to lock the new picture into place. Should also include major changes in the recruitment processes along with a newly recruited team from outside, plus a review or audit process (team from outside of the company) conducted every 60 days on all recent recruitment to ensure nepotism etc., is not part of the recruitment process. I was at a meeting with many Thai seniors and a very direct guy from the government some years back. The very direct guy who was not frightened of anybody (and quite famous for his directness) said: 'congratulations on building a famous families social club with closed doors'. How true, and the Thai Inter folks all squirmed in their chairs. Another time at a meeting I asked the director responsible for HR how they assess annual personal performance of cabin crew, his response 'Ohh we don't need to do that because most of our cabin crew have a masters degree'. I asked how that has any direction connection to on-the-job performance. He thought for a few seconds and said' I'm surprised you don't understand that.'  Another time I asked why there are so many 'Manager' positions which have no reporting staff and no managerial duties. His response 'Well some are long-term employees, we give them the title 'Manager' (and the salary increase) to make them feel happy. Also, maybe they have to go to a meeting abroad, if they don't have a manager title they will feel so embarrassed'. I followed this with 'How many times has this actually happened', he couldn't think of an example. Another time, when my consulting team was waiting to attend a meeting an arrogant senior woman inspected the clothing of my team!  Another   time we were told that our meeting start would be delayed so we were taken on a tour of their internal English language school. They had 12 staff members who spent all day every day searching for any book or learning aid for language learning that wasn't in their library and automatically ordered it. I then learned that nody in this team of 12 could speak any English. Further, the room had very high ceilings and many big whiteboards had been fixed permenantly to the walls above the book shelves and cupboards (too high to reach). Every whiteboard had one or two permanent sentences written on it; First letter of first word in the sentence capitalized plus first letter of every word in the sentence capitalized, then every other letter written in upper case (nothing at all in lower case). Plus spelling and grammar mistakes. 
• Sell loss making subsidiaries. Agree, regain total focus on core business. Plus develop much better cost accounting capabilities with continuous reporting and comparisons to international benchmarks etc, and then serious item by item challenges given out to appropriate managers with a specific reduction goal, e.g. 15% reduction in operating costs within 60 days, followed by overall 40% reduction within 8 months or even less. All with no exceptions for any reason. 

Or just sell it to Singapore Airlines. BEST IDEA EVER.

 

 

[simoh1490]

4 hours ago, BobbyL said:

They really are a bunch of clowns. They are still one of the most expensive airlines listed for a very second rate service.

 

They were as usual the most expensive to LHR when I booked recently and when we booked Japan for xmas they were more than ANA and Japan Airlines. 

I flew them to LHR in May and they were one of the cheapest avaialble, plus they upgraded me to upper deck, I have no problems with Thai Airways.