Are You A Sexpat Or Do You Ride The Backwards Morality Train?

[webfact]

Israeli troops shoot dead Palestinian during Gaza protests

 

A relative of Palestinian Emad Ishtawi, who was killed during a protest along the Israel-Gaza border fence, mourns during his funeral in Gaza City, September 24, 2018. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem

 

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli soldiers shot dead a Palestinian man and wounded dozens of others on Monday taking part in a protest near the border between Israel and Gaza, Gaza health officials said.

 

The Israeli military said thousands had taken part in the demonstration, throwing burning tyres, rocks and explosive devices towards the troops on the other side of the border fence. Soldiers responded with riot dispersal means according to rules of engagement, a military spokesman said.

 

Gaza health officials said 90 people were hurt, 10 of them by live fire. Since Gazans began holding border protests on March 30, the Israeli army has killed 184 Palestinians. A Gaza sniper has killed one Israeli soldier.

 

Israel accuses Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist movement that controls Gaza, of having deliberately provoked violence in the protests, a charge Hamas denies.

 

Protest organisers say the demonstrations aim to press demands for a right to lands lost to Israel in the 1948 war of its foundation and for an end to an Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the coastal Gaza Strip.

 

Israel says the blockade is intended to prevent weapons from reaching militant groups, including Hamas, which it designates as a terrorist organisation and with whom it has fought three wars in the past decade.

 

More than 2 million Palestinians are packed into tiny Gaza, which is experiencing deep economic hardship.

 

Around 10 Palestinian boats sailed off the coast to challenge the blockade on Monday, drawing warning shots from the Israeli navy. There were no reports of Palestinian casualties.

 

(Reporting by Saleh Salem and Maayan Lubell; Editing by Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-09-25

[bert bloggs]

Instead of throwing petrol bombs and demonstrating every day ,how about getting down and working hard to build your country ,just like Israel did? just a thought .

[ezzra]

45 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Instead of throwing petrol bombs and demonstrating every day ,how about getting down and working hard to build your country ,just like Israel did? just a thought .

Not that simple, those demonstrators are pawns in a very complicated game where Abbas is severely cutting funding to the thousands of Gaza administration workers that depends of that money because Hmas is refusing to kowtowing to Abbas as the head of the PA, Abbas himself, afflicted with old age and ailments and is about to be replaced is being pushed aside and marginalised by Trump and Israel for refusing to negotiate peace, Hamas is frustrated at the Israelis for the prolong blockades and border issues and general mistrust or everybody including the Egyptians who were suppose to mediate some kind of agreement with israel and nothing is happening,

So Hamas is doing what it knows best, provocations, unrest intimidations and mayhem, heating up the area to attract attention at the expense of the poor Gaza people that pays with lives and limbs every day as part of the big game...

Edited September 25, 2018 by ezzra

[BestB]

and for an end to an Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the coastal Gaza Strip.

 

So why are they not protesting at Egypt’s border? 

[dexterm]

31 minutes ago, BestB said:

and for an end to an Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the coastal Gaza Strip.

 

So why are they not protesting at Egypt’s border? 

Because they want to go back to their family homes in Israel from which they were ethnically cleansed in 1948. Israel's refusal is a war crime according to the Geneva Convention. The only reason Israel will not allow them to return is pure racism.

 

Israel blockades Gaza's land, sea and air space. Egypt controls only one border crossing which was open till the other US puppet military dictator Sisi closed it.

[bert bloggs]

21 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Because they want to go back to their family homes in Israel from which they were ethnically cleansed in 1948. Israel's refusal is a war crime according to the Geneva Convention. The only reason Israel will not allow them to return is pure racism.

 

Israel blockades Gaza's land, sea and air space. Egypt controls only one border crossing which was open till the other US puppet military dictator Sisi closed it.

And i want the decendents of the Vikings that stole our lands to give it back to my decendents. or i am going to protest ,

[BestB]

27 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Because they want to go back to their family homes in Israel from which they were ethnically cleansed in 1948. Israel's refusal is a war crime according to the Geneva Convention. The only reason Israel will not allow them to return is pure racism.

 

Israel blockades Gaza's land, sea and air space. Egypt controls only one border crossing which was open till the other US puppet military dictator Sisi closed it.

Stop with the never ending bs. 

First they wanted gaza , now they want Israel , what’s next? Jordan is out, they already tried that.

 

but all of that has little to do with not protesting at Egypt’s border and the only reason why they are not doing it which you are well aware off, not only Egypt will slaughter them all but no one will say a word about it 

[dexterm]

5 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

And i want the decendents of the Vikings that stole our lands to give it back to my decendents. or i am going to protest ,

Fortunately we now live in a more enlightened era under international law and the Geneva Convention. Israel is behaving as though we were back in tribal medieval times where might was right...pillage and ethnically cleanse with impunity.

 

The Palestinians at Israel's unilaterally declared fence are reminding the illegal occupying European colonists that they have not disappeared and that Palestine is their country too.

[BestB]

Just now, dexterm said:

Fortunately we now live in a more enlightened era under international law and the Geneva Convention. Israel is behaving as though we were back in tribal medieval times where might was right...pillage and ethnically cleanse with impunity.

 

The Palestinians at Israel's unilaterally declared fence are reminding the illegal occupying European colonists that they have not disappeared and that Palestine is their country too.

Oh I see so now we selectively choosing? Gee what a surprise 

[geriatrickid]

Let's deal with the facts of this incident and only the facts;

 

Name of the deceased; Mohammad Fayez Salim Abu Sadeq

This is apparently him, from when he wasn't dead.

 

Event of Death:  He was at a gathering where participants were using slingshots and projectiles. The local Gaza media reps stated that there had been success in laying siege to the Israeli aggressors with multiple claims that the "Palestinian protesters managed to down an Israeli drone which had been firing gas bombs at them".    They showed an image of the downed Israeli drone;

 

If they were able to down the drone with slingshots, those  weapons would then be accurate, and deadly. There is no confirmation from the Gaza side that the deceased was using a slingshot or other weapon.

 

There is no evidence presented to show that the deceased was actually  injured by Israeli fire. In the image presented of the deceased there appears to be a rear head wound. (Not posted here, as I believe it would be distasteful to do so.) There does not appear to be any frontal bleeding, nor an exit wound. Typically, when there is a military grade bullet wound to the head, we will see an indication of trauma, such as an exit wound or bleeding or disfigurement.

 

There is  a strong possibility that the deceased was hit by a rock launched by a comrade, or that he tripped and fell striking his head. The image does show a state of rigor with a left wrist that is bent at a right angle.  The explanation of a fall is not unreasonable as it is claimed that the drone was dropping tear gas. The deceased may have been overcome by the gas, and tripped, injuring himself in the process. Another possibility is that he was injured by a dispersed  cannister of tear gas. The Gaza authorities do not allow a neutral examination of injured protesters, nor do they permit a neutral autopsy of the deceased. There have been multiple injuries and deaths during the conflict due to "friendly" fire, although the Gaza side has denied any such events have ever occurred. Oddly enough, the IDF has had some  incidents of "friendly fire" and have not attempted to pass them off as anything other than that.  It is not unusual for a high percentage of injuries to be caused by one's own side in these confrontations.

The Israeli MFA is closed for a religious holiday and has not issued a comment on the event.

 

At this time there is no evidence to support the claim that the deceased was shot or even killed by the IDF. Once the Gaza authorities allow a post mortem attended by a neutral entity, then an official cause of death can be assigned. 

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

Let's deal with the facts of this incident and only the facts;

 

Name of the deceased; Mohammad Fayez Salim Abu Sadeq

This is apparently him, from when he wasn't dead.

 

Event of Death:  He was at a gathering where participants were using slingshots and projectiles. The local Gaza media reps stated that there had been success in laying siege to the Israeli aggressors with multiple claims that the "Palestinian protesters managed to down an Israeli drone which had been firing gas bombs at them".    They showed an image of the downed Israeli drone;

 

If they were able to down the drone with slingshots, those  weapons would then be accurate, and deadly. There is no confirmation from the Gaza side that the deceased was using a slingshot or other weapon.

 

There is no evidence presented to show that the deceased was actually  injured by Israeli fire. In the image presented of the deceased there appears to be a rear head wound. (Not posted here, as I believe it would be distasteful to do so.) There does not appear to be any frontal bleeding, nor an exit wound. Typically, when there is a military grade bullet wound to the head, we will see an indication of trauma, such as an exit wound or bleeding or disfigurement.

 

There is  a strong possibility that the deceased was hit by a rock launched by a comrade, or that he tripped and fell striking his head. The image does show a state of rigor with a left wrist that is bent at a right angle.  The explanation of a fall is not unreasonable as it is claimed that the drone was dropping tear gas. The deceased may have been overcome by the gas, and tripped, injuring himself in the process. Another possibility is that he was injured by a dispersed  cannister of tear gas. The Gaza authorities do not allow a neutral examination of injured protesters, nor do they permit a neutral autopsy of the deceased. There have been multiple injuries and deaths during the conflict due to "friendly" fire, although the Gaza side has denied any such events have ever occurred. Oddly enough, the IDF has had some  incidents of "friendly fire" and have not attempted to pass them off as anything other than that.  It is not unusual for a high percentage of injuries to be caused by one's own side in these confrontations.

The Israeli MFA is closed for a religious holiday and has not issued a comment on the event.

 

At this time there is no evidence to support the claim that the deceased was shot or even killed by the IDF. Once the Gaza authorities allow a post mortem attended by a neutral entity, then an official cause of death can be assigned. 

>>Let's deal with the facts of this incident and only the facts;

...facts?? ... but no link!

..you are attempting to muddy the waters by implying most of the deaths and injuries have not come from trigger happy IDF. Blame the victim.

 

Well here are some documented facts for you. 
"As of 13 August, 168 Palestinians had been killed.By the end of July 2018, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza, the casualty breakdown was as follows:

4,348 struck by live ammunition"

 

..there's more.....makes appalling reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Gaza_border_protests#Casualties_and_damage

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by dexterm

[Thorgal]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Let's deal with the facts of this incident and only the facts;

 

Name of the deceased; Mohammad Fayez Salim Abu Sadeq

This is apparently him, from when he wasn't dead.

 

Event of Death:  He was at a gathering where participants were using slingshots and projectiles. The local Gaza media reps stated that there had been success in laying siege to the Israeli aggressors with multiple claims that the "Palestinian protesters managed to down an Israeli drone which had been firing gas bombs at them".    They showed an image of the downed Israeli drone;

 

If they were able to down the drone with slingshots, those  weapons would then be accurate, and deadly. There is no confirmation from the Gaza side that the deceased was using a slingshot or other weapon.

 

There is no evidence presented to show that the deceased was actually  injured by Israeli fire. In the image presented of the deceased there appears to be a rear head wound. (Not posted here, as I believe it would be distasteful to do so.) There does not appear to be any frontal bleeding, nor an exit wound. Typically, when there is a military grade bullet wound to the head, we will see an indication of trauma, such as an exit wound or bleeding or disfigurement.

 

There is  a strong possibility that the deceased was hit by a rock launched by a comrade, or that he tripped and fell striking his head. The image does show a state of rigor with a left wrist that is bent at a right angle.  The explanation of a fall is not unreasonable as it is claimed that the drone was dropping tear gas. The deceased may have been overcome by the gas, and tripped, injuring himself in the process. Another possibility is that he was injured by a dispersed  cannister of tear gas. The Gaza authorities do not allow a neutral examination of injured protesters, nor do they permit a neutral autopsy of the deceased. There have been multiple injuries and deaths during the conflict due to "friendly" fire, although the Gaza side has denied any such events have ever occurred. Oddly enough, the IDF has had some  incidents of "friendly fire" and have not attempted to pass them off as anything other than that.  It is not unusual for a high percentage of injuries to be caused by one's own side in these confrontations.

The Israeli MFA is closed for a religious holiday and has not issued a comment on the event.

 

At this time there is no evidence to support the claim that the deceased was shot or even killed by the IDF. Once the Gaza authorities allow a post mortem attended by a neutral entity, then an official cause of death can be assigned. 

 

Deceased Palestinian victim according to OP was identified as 21-year-old Imad Daoud Ishtwai.

 

You named the wrong victim "Mohammad Fayez Salim Abu Sadeq".

 

The real victim died in the late evening. Gaza sunset is at 18.35h. The moonrise around 19.06h.

 

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/palestine/gaza

 

Must be a lucky shot to hit a flying drone at +/- 30m high in almost full obscurity.

 

Quote from source:

 

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Report-One-dead-50-injured-Palestinians-during-Monday-clashes-567856

 

"Palestinian taking part in the violent “March of Return” protests along the northern Gaza border fence was shot dead by IDF fire Sunday evening, Gaza health officials said."

 

In short: you've put the wrong victim on the crime scene, displaced the weapon and the killer in the wrong camp and could not prove that the victim really downed the IDF drone flying illegally over Gaza territory...

 

As you've mentioned correctly: "Let's deal with the facts of this incident and only the facts"...

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Thorgal

[dexterm]

18 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Deceased Palestinian victim according to OP was identified as 21-year-old Imad Daoud Ishtwai.

 

You named the wrong victim "Mohammad Fayez Salim Abu Sadeq".

 

The real victim died in the late evening. Gaza sunset is at 18.35h. The moonrise around 19.06h.

 

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/palestine/gaza

 

Must be a lucky shot to hit a flying drone at +/- 30m high in almost full obscurity.

 

Quote from source:

 

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Report-One-dead-50-injured-Palestinians-during-Monday-clashes-567856

 

"Palestinian taking part in the violent “March of Return” protests along the northern Gaza border fence was shot dead by IDF fire Sunday evening, Gaza health officials said."

 

In short: you've put the wrong victim on the crime scene, displaced the weapon and the killer in the wrong camp and could not prove that the victim really downed the IDF drone flying illegally over Gaza territory...

 

As you've mentioned correctly: "Let's deal with the facts of this incident and only the facts"...

 

Well done, Thorgal. Amazing sleuthing. It pays to fact ? check.

Edited September 25, 2018 by dexterm

[Thorgal]

4 hours ago, BestB said:

and for an end to an Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the coastal Gaza Strip.

 

So why are they not protesting at Egypt’s border? 

 

1. they're protesting and claiming their right to return to their native lands. Majority of Gaza inhabitants originate from all other parts from Palestine and were chased into Gaza by force.

 

2. please note that they're protesting on their side of the border in full legality.

 

3. please note that they're besieged and under military occupation in the air, sea and land and even underground.

[BestB]

37 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

1. they're protesting and claiming their right to return to their native lands. Majority of Gaza inhabitants originate from all other parts from Palestine and were chased into Gaza by force.

 

2. please note that they're protesting on their side of the border in full legality.

 

3. please note that they're besieged and under military occupation in the air, sea and land and even underground.

The very same protested to have gaza and got it, no matter what spin you put on it .

 

peacefylly protesting on their side of the fence is far from what they are doing and most certainly far from being legal , unless you an arab lover, in which case anything they do is legal 

 

and lastly , they are not protesting on Egyptian side of border for fairly obvious reasons.

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Instead of throwing petrol bombs and demonstrating every day ,how about getting down and working hard to build your country ,just like Israel did? just a thought .

They are constrained now though. First they need to topple their own corrupt government. Then they have to accept "right of return" to Israel is a non-starter. Then a real peace process can begin and yes, indeed, they could be prosperous with Israel as a partner instead of an enemy. Easier said than done though and there is little reason for any optimism. It wouldn't be very surprising if the same cycle of dread is still going the same in 20 years and more. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They are constrained now though. First they need to topple their own corrupt government. Then they have to accept "right of return" to Israel is a non-starter. Then a real peace process can begin and yes, indeed, they could be prosperous with Israel as a partner instead of an enemy. Easier said than done though and there is little reason for any optimism. It wouldn't be very surprising if the same cycle of dread is still going the same in 20 years and more. 

>>Then they have to accept "right of return" to Israel is a non-starter.
....there is no "need" for them to do that at all. Many were born in Israel and have the right in international law and UN resolutions to return there.

But there certainly is a need for Israel, if it really is a democracy, to accept people, who were born in their country, on the basis of equality not race or religion.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, dexterm said:

Because they want to go back to their family homes in Israel from which they were ethnically cleansed in 1948. Israel's refusal is a war crime according to the Geneva Convention. The only reason Israel will not allow them to return is pure racism.

 

Israel blockades Gaza's land, sea and air space. Egypt controls only one border crossing which was open till the other US puppet military dictator Sisi closed it.

 

More  of your dishonest, irrelevant and misleading nonsense.

 

On some posts, when it suits, you claim Palestinians protests against the ongoing blockade. When it doesn't fit some ad-hoc agenda bit, you drop this and change your "argument".

 

Your attempts to minimize Egypt's role in maintaining the blockade are dully noted as the unadulterated BS, they are. Egypt maintains the blockade both with regard to maritime access and airspace - on top of controlling land access from their side of the border. Had Egypt an interest or inclination to do so, it could nullify the blockade in an instance. As for your contrived version regarding the closure of land passage by Egypt - obviously no mention of Hamas ties with IS, arms smuggling or Egypt's commitment to the PA as the Palestinian representative. Closures of the border weren't rare even before the current government's time.

 

As for the other drivel - your version of the supposed right of return neglects to mention that it is, and always was, conditional on peace and peaceful intentions by those wishing to return. A war crime it isn't, not under long prevailing terms, and not if acknowledging facts rather than engaging in propaganda slogans.

 

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

>>Let's deal with the facts of this incident and only the facts;

...facts?? ... but no link!

..you are attempting to muddy the waters by implying most of the deaths and injuries have not come from trigger happy IDF. Blame the victim.

 

Well here are some documented facts for you. 
"As of 13 August, 168 Palestinians had been killed.By the end of July 2018, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza, the casualty breakdown was as follows:

4,348 struck by live ammunition"

 

..there's more.....makes appalling reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Gaza_border_protests#Casualties_and_damage

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but then most of the most of the more "dramatic" cases, which your happily milked on related topics ended up as not being quite as advertised. Doesn't stop your from touting the same rubbish over and over again, obviously - but others are required to display higher standards, it seems.

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

 

1. they're protesting and claiming their right to return to their native lands. Majority of Gaza inhabitants originate from all other parts from Palestine and were chased into Gaza by force.

 

2. please note that they're protesting on their side of the border in full legality.

 

3. please note that they're besieged and under military occupation in the air, sea and land and even underground.

 

Please note that their supposed right of return is not unconditional, regardless of the nonsense often touted on these topics.

 

Please note that that they are throwing IED, grenades and whatnot - over the border.

 

Please note that they launch balloons, kites and drones loaded with incendiary devices, causing fires on the other side of the border 

 

Please note that they are "besieged" due to Hamas's actions and agenda. The blockade is maintained by both Israel and Egypt.

 

 

[Jingthing]

"Right of return for Palestinains" is Palestinian code for opposing the right of Israel to even exist. It's not even subtle. 

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>Then they have to accept "right of return" to Israel is a non-starter.
....there is no "need" for them to do that at all. Many were born in Israel and have the right in international law and UN resolutions to return there.

But there certainly is a need for Israel, if it really is a democracy, to accept people, who were born in their country, on the basis of equality not race or religion.

 

You are making misleading claims again. Pretty much a standard with your rants. The so-called Palestinian "right of return" is not unconditional, regardless of your spins.

 

Other than in your imagination, Israel is not realistically expected to accept an influx of millions of Palestinians as citizens. Views like yours, which deal in fantasies are part of what makes this conflict problematic to solve.

[dexterm]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

More  of your dishonest, irrelevant and misleading nonsense.

 

On some posts, when it suits, you claim Palestinians protests against the ongoing blockade. When it doesn't fit some ad-hoc agenda bit, you drop this and change your "argument".

 

Your attempts to minimize Egypt's role in maintaining the blockade are dully noted as the unadulterated BS, they are. Egypt maintains the blockade both with regard to maritime access and airspace - on top of controlling land access from their side of the border. Had Egypt an interest or inclination to do so, it could nullify the blockade in an instance. As for your contrived version regarding the closure of land passage by Egypt - obviously no mention of Hamas ties with IS, arms smuggling or Egypt's commitment to the PA as the Palestinian representative. Closures of the border weren't rare even before the current government's time.

 

As for the other drivel - your version of the supposed right of return neglects to mention that it is, and always was, conditional on peace and peaceful intentions by those wishing to return. A war crime it isn't, not under long prevailing terms, and not if acknowledging facts rather than engaging in propaganda slogans.

 

 

>>On some posts, when it suits, you claim Palestinians protests against the ongoing blockade. When it doesn't fit some ad-hoc agenda bit, you drop this and change your "argument".

Please stop trying to deflect off topic.
The OP mentions both the blockade and the Palestinians' right of return.

OP..
"Protest organisers say the demonstrations aim to press demands for a right to lands lost to Israel in the 1948 war of its foundation and for an end to an Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the coastal Gaza Strip."

 

>>the supposed right of return neglects to mention that it is, and always was, conditional on peace and peaceful intentions by those wishing to return. 
...So..there is no reason why the right of return could not be conducted in a gradual orderly security vetted manner as part of a comprehensive peace deal.. The only reason Zionists do not wish to do so is pure racism.

 

>>A war crime it isn't
...People flee or are terrorized into fleeing during time of conflict. It is a war crime not to allow refugees to return to their homes.

[dexterm]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You are making misleading claims again. Pretty much a standard with your rants. The so-called Palestinian "right of return" is not unconditional, regardless of your spins.

 

Other than in your imagination, Israel is not realistically expected to accept an influx of millions of Palestinians as citizens. Views like yours, which deal in fantasies are part of what makes this conflict problematic to solve.

Israel has in the past and continues to do so in the future to expect an influx of millions .....provided they are not indigenous Palestinians.

 

That is the crux of the matter...pure racism.

[dexterm]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

"Right of return for Palestinains" is Palestinian code for opposing the right of Israel to even exist. It's not even subtle. 

..and "the right of Israel to even exist" is Zionist code for  the right of a predominanly racist supremacist state to exist by denying the right of return of its indigenous people.

 

It's not even subtle. 

 

Israel cannot continue to exist as a state where only one people has a right to self determination while denying it to other inhabitants of a different religion or race.

Edited September 25, 2018 by dexterm

[Thorgal]

46 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

More  of your dishonest, irrelevant and misleading nonsense.

 

On some posts, when it suits, you claim Palestinians protests against the ongoing blockade. When it doesn't fit some ad-hoc agenda bit, you drop this and change your "argument".

 

Your attempts to minimize Egypt's role in maintaining the blockade are dully noted as the unadulterated BS, they are. Egypt maintains the blockade both with regard to maritime access and airspace - on top of controlling land access from their side of the border. Had Egypt an interest or inclination to do so, it could nullify the blockade in an instance. As for your contrived version regarding the closure of land passage by Egypt - obviously no mention of Hamas ties with IS, arms smuggling or Egypt's commitment to the PA as the Palestinian representative. Closures of the border weren't rare even before the current government's time.

 

As for the other drivel - your version of the supposed right of return neglects to mention that it is, and always was, conditional on peace and peaceful intentions by those wishing to return. A war crime it isn't, not under long prevailing terms, and not if acknowledging facts rather than engaging in propaganda slogans.

 

 

 

Strengthening of security measures at Egypt-Gaza border came in 1978 after the Camp David accords between Israel and Egypt. The US provided financial and military aid to Mubarak and Sisi regime in return for the conditions ruled by Israel for the Egypt-Gaza border.

The Egyptians also received the Sinai back in 1979 from Israel.

 

There's no way to stop the blockade as you've mentioned.

 

Furthermore, please make difference between the accomplishment of the Egyptian government for this blockade and the opposite will of the Egyptian people.  Most children and adults in Gaza are aware of this and will never protest at the Egyptian border. From the Egyptian side you won't have their army shooting deliberately to Gaza inhabitants.

 

No problem to answer your questions if you have any further doubts.

 

 

[Morch]

49 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>On some posts, when it suits, you claim Palestinians protests against the ongoing blockade. When it doesn't fit some ad-hoc agenda bit, you drop this and change your "argument".

Please stop trying to deflect off topic.
The OP mentions both the blockade and the Palestinians' right of return.

OP..
"Protest organisers say the demonstrations aim to press demands for a right to lands lost to Israel in the 1948 war of its foundation and for an end to an Israeli-Egyptian blockade of the coastal Gaza Strip."

 

>>the supposed right of return neglects to mention that it is, and always was, conditional on peace and peaceful intentions by those wishing to return. 
...So..there is no reason why the right of return could not be conducted in a gradual orderly security vetted manner as part of a comprehensive peace deal.. The only reason Zionists do not wish to do so is pure racism.

 

>>A war crime it isn't
...People flee or are terrorized into fleeing during time of conflict. It is a war crime not to allow refugees to return to their homes.

 

The one deflecting is yourself. I'm not the one who tried to paint the Palestinian grievance as being a single fact issue - you did. Similarly, if you want to reference the OP, may as well acknowledge it directly refers to Egypt's role, rather than the minimized version you push.

 

As for your usual spins regarding the supposed Palestinian "right of return" - your comment doesn't have much to do with my post or with reality. There is no comprehensive peace agreement on the horizon (and to head off expected nonsense deflections - this isn't solely Israel's doing or responsibility), and the Gazans are not, on the whole, committed to peaceful co-existence complying with the terms related to the "right of return". That you wish to dabble in denial and spins doesn't change facts.

 

As for your assertions regarding "war crimes" - let's try this again, the "right of return" is not unconditional. There is no obligation to accept hostile population. Refugee situations all over the world are not uniformly addressed by applying a "right of return" solution.

[Morch]

54 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Israel has in the past and continues to do so in the future to expect an influx of millions .....provided they are not indigenous Palestinians.

 

That is the crux of the matter...pure racism.

 

Israel was founded as a state of the Jewish People. That you object to this is irrelevant. Regardless, your argument is plain silly - the population in question is not hostile, accepts sovereignty and does not harbor intentions to undermine Israel's foundations.

 

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, dexterm said:

..and "the right of Israel to even exist" is Zionist code for  the right of a predominanly racist supremacist state to exist by denying the right of return of its indigenous people.

 

It's not even subtle. 

 

Israel cannot continue to exist as a state where only one people has a right to self determination while denying it to other inhabitants of a different religion or race.

 

No, that's your extreme interpretation. Israel was founded as a state for the Jewish people. That you object to it is clear, if irrelevant. It's also dishonest, considering how often you go on about accepting UN resolutions etc. 

 

Other than in your hateful fantasies, Israel is not expected to commit national suicide, nor to become Palestine. The Palestinians, on the other hand, are more busy claiming the whole cake, while doing little to develop what's available to them. This stance didn't change much over the years. 

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Strengthening of security measures at Egypt-Gaza border came in 1978 after the Camp David accords between Israel and Egypt. The US provided financial and military aid to Mubarak and Sisi regime in return for the conditions ruled by Israel for the Egypt-Gaza border.

The Egyptians also received the Sinai back in 1979 from Israel.

 

There's no way to stop the blockade as you've mentioned.

 

Furthermore, please make difference between the accomplishment of the Egyptian government for this blockade and the opposite will of the Egyptian people.  Most children and adults in Gaza are aware of this and will never protest at the Egyptian border. From the Egyptian side you won't have their army shooting deliberately to Gaza inhabitants.

 

No problem to answer your questions if you have any further doubts.

 

 

 

More of your usual irrelevant nonsense.

 

There was no blockade, as nowadays, laid on Gaza back in 1978, and not for many years later on. Spinning the blockade as unrelated to Palestinian agenda and actions is either ignorance or a lame attempt to mislead.

 

As for your "there's no way to stop the blockade" - Egypt could (and does, when it sees fit) relax restrictions, allow passage of goods and people, practically on whim. Your bogus claim is not even remotely in touch with reality.

 

And even more nonsense follows - the Egyptian security forces don't have much issues shooting people, especially protestors. That you assert Palestinians are exempted from such relies on nothing much. That would be the same forces who drove people of their homes in order to create a security zone along the border, flooded smuggling tunnels with sea water and shoot at Palestinian fishing boats when they cross over.

 

I've no doubt you have no problems coming up with more nonsense as "answers".