BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Time Traveller]

I knew something like this would happen and it's because there is no clear cut way to define income for many people. 

A lot of people don't realize the Thai immigration is a very backward beaurocracy still living in the 19th century in terms of thinking about what income actually is. The fact they they are "demanding" foreign embassies to not just certify but to also verify income just shows you how woefully incompetent Thai immigration are. (not to mention they expect others to do their work for them). 

And I certainly don't think any embassy can verify a person's income either because the way the tax codes are set up in many countries means that income can manipulated by many tax loopholes or one time events (eg. capital gains or losses on sale of assets). 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Time Traveller

[simple1]

18 hours ago, Pilotman said:

They are worse than that, they are useless, incompetent, ineffective morons.  Well done the Brits, thanks for your support for your Citizens. So now we have to deposit our hard earned money into an incompetent Thai banking system, aided by our own Embassy.  I am beyone angry 

It is ridiculous to blame HMG. UK Embassy doesn't own the issue, you do. I have used a Thai bank, Kasikorn, for years without any problems.

[Rally123]

2 minutes ago, roath said:

what is wrong with immigration issuing a short statement clarifying what will be required going forward. 

I believe they have. It's 400 or 800 thousand in a Thai bank for minimum of 3 months. 2 months if first extension.

[Peterw42]

15 minutes ago, roath said:

That doesn't appear to be correct, as other Embassies are following suit

 

You say that Immigration will still accept income letters, but from whom? Until now, the only form of income letter acceptable to immigration was from your home country's embassy

 

If you mention Thai banks, as per many posts on this thread, until now, income has meant exactly that. Actual income from any country and any source. If the requirement is now that income means income into a Thai bank, then that is respectfully a significant change in the definition/interpretation of income by immigration and the whole point of people requiring clarification

 

 

No other embassies have made a remotely similar statement, and neither has immigration. 

[crazykopite]

8 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Sounds like a royal shove off if you ask me, no doubt if they get enough slack from British xpats they will do what they intend to do if you can look under the sheets, i.e. start charging, e.g. after much consultation with xpat members residing in Thailand, we have decided to provide extra staff to handle the letters exclusively and charge for them at a cost of 1,000 baht per letter request so as to pay for the additional staff, badda bing, badda bang, badda BOOOOOM

 

Watch this space !

The cost of a pension letter from the British Embassy was 3,000+ baht plus 100baht postal charge and that was 3years ago before I moved over to the 800,000 in the bank it’s never been FREE .

[andy8017]

Early in this thread some were talking about houses & property ? I was led to believe when I first arrived that it is not legal to buy property unless you were a Thai national, or you were prepared to buy on behalf of a Thai National , which ,of course means you do not actually own the property, or at least, the land it stands on, the land is the key, there are many hidden bits  that are designed to catch the unaware out & I am pretty sure this is one of them.

[wvavin]

Umm...this is a way of eradicating “quality visitors”.

[smedly]

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I would think that is fairly straightforward. The statement I get for my extension has a summary line along the bottom showing the amount deposited over the period of the statement. If on a 12 month statement the amount deposited divided by 12 exceeded 65k then you should be good to go.

I agree and sounds like an improvement

 

Yet to be clarified by Thai Immigration 

[alphason]

5 minutes ago, roath said:

The main problem is the lack of clarify from immigration (and the British Embassy) as to what is going to be acceptable going forward

 

The fact is that probably most people will be able to comply, but we need to know how we are meant to be complying. Until now, immigration accepted (required) an income verification letter from one's home embassy. If that is going out the window, then OK, but what is wrong with immigration issuing a short statement clarifying what will be required going forward. 

 

This is exactly the point, if no income letter then other than the money on deposit what do we do? BE says show the money going into a Thai bank account, show it to who? immigration don't currently accept this method they want the letter, so is there a rule change coming, for how long does the money need to be shown for?

[Pilotman]

15 hours ago, smedly said:

I think the proof of income will be money into your Thai bank account over 12 months so if you make 1 or 2 transfers a year they will add them up and divide by 12, so little has changed except it has become easier - no need for an embassy letter, just a letter and passbook from Thai bank showing the annual transfers from outside Thailand, I can't see it working any other way

Everything has changed.  I dont use a Thai bank account, so how do I prove I transferred money here?  Well I'm not dead yet,  and I manage to pay my rent and utilities, so I guess I must get living expenses from somewhere. 

[Esso49]

8 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

I knew something like this would happen and it's because there is no clear cut way to define income for many people. 

A lot of people don't realize the Thai immigration is a very backward beaurocracy still living in the 19th century in terms of thinking about what income actually is. The fact they they are "demanding" foreign embassies certify income just shows you how woefully incompetent Thai immigration are. (not to mention they expect others to do their work for them). 

And I certainly don't think any embassy can verify a person's income either because the way the tax codes are set up in many countries means that income can manipulated by many tax loopholes or one time events (eg. capital gains or losses). 

 

Sometimes I think it is a bit strange that they did/do not request the letter confirming income was required to be translated into Thai.  Whilst many of the IO's have a reasonable command of spoken English, I wonder if their reading is as good  and if that where to be the case, do IO's , or have IO's just accepted the figures in GBP/AUD/US etc .  Now perhaps all those documents, perhaps only one was needed, have now been looked into in greater depth, and rather taking the figure at face value, enquiries as to the veracity of that statement has perhaps led to a string of events being put in motion ? Of course we don't know that answer or ever will.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Esso49

[soalbundy]

The wife has just spoken with immigration,(kap choeng) they will accept letters of confirmation from embassies, if the UK wont issue them it's up to them

[Pilotman]

37 minutes ago, sandyf said:

This is probably the bottom line. The income letter never required the income to come to Thailand, using bank statements as proof would ensure it does.

Looks like I will be going back to a marriage extension.

That is exactly the point.  Its a way of the Thais ensuring that foreign currency is deposited here.  

[Chongalulu]

17 hours ago, smedly said:

I do 2x transfers a year from the UK so I assume the total of these 2x transactions will be divided by 12 to show monthly income to my Thai bank, seems pretty simple to me and a vast improvement on having to go to the British Embassy 

 

The only people affected by this are those that cannot produce the income statements or bank balance

Your huge mistake is to assume common sense and logic will apply....TIT!

[AsiaCheese]

No idea how things work in Britain (and a bunch of other countries that won't supply an income statement), but if you're getting a pension/social security income, surely that agency (in your homeland) will issue a confirmation letter saying that person XY with social security number nnnn and born on .... receives the amount of nnn £/€/$/whatever monthly?

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

The wife has just spoken with immigration,(kap choeng) they will accept letters of confirmation from embassies, if the UK wont issue them it's up to them

Yes, thats it in a nutshell, the sky is not falling

[Esso49]

3 minutes ago, AsiaCheese said:

No idea how things work in Britain (and a bunch of other countries that won't supply an income statement), but if you're getting a pension/social security income, surely that agency (in your homeland) will issue a confirmation letter saying that person XY with social security number nnnn and born on .... receives the amount of nnn £/€/$/whatever monthly?

They do. But the issue is that the Thai authorities have requested a letter to confirm such income from the British Embassy, rather than just accepting the confirmation letters from the pension providers in the UK. It is this letter that the British Embassy now say they will not be issuing in the future.

[Surasak]

19 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Ha ha ha!

I see that joke about how how open a bank account in Thailand requires only three items.

They deliberately miss out the details about how you need to visit many banks (often the same bank but different branch) in order to maybe get lucky and be 'allowed' to open a bank account. Each branch makes up its own rules - we all know that from experience.

 

I bet within five years they'll probably completely stop renewing passports too - via outsourcing or other means.

<end of sarcasm mode for those with no sense of humour>

 

The British Embassy stopped issuing passports about 3 years ago.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, Rally123 said:

That may be one interpretation but my immigration office wants to see movement within the account. They want to see your ordinary account bank book to confirm you just do not have required funds in a fixed account. 

All I have to show each year is my fixed accounts, that's all, if Immigration wants to see my movements they are welcome to stop by any morning, usually around 7am.

[4MyEgo]

22 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

The cost of a pension letter from the British Embassy was 3,000+ baht plus 100baht postal charge and that was 3years ago before I moved over to the 800,000 in the bank it’s never been FREE .

OMG what a farce, then this tells me something else is happening as I also read a poster say that this is also happening with the Canadian embassy.

 

Perhaps the Thai government has asked all foreign embassies to assist them in cleaning up Thailand with farangs that cannot have the required lump sum in their accounts, why, I have no idea, perhaps to build up funds in Thai banks for whatever purposes, but to wipe the letters altogether is going to cause a lot of problems for those without the required 800,000 baht, especially now that Big Joke is going around culling his immigration officers trying to wipe out corruption, so two things can happen hear from where I am sitting, i.e. a lot of farangs will stay without the required funds till they are caught and deported or two someone going to take a bullet. 

[Stoker58]

19 hours ago, colinneil said:

British embassy are a total waste of space.

 

Never a truer word said. I was talking to a high level Thai official just two days ago and he said the same thing.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Stoker58 said:

Never a truer word said. I was talking to a high level Thai official just two days ago and he said the same thing.

Oh well, it has to be true if it came from a Thai official.

[8OA8]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

There is no requirement for the 800k to come from outside Thailand. Maybe some offices ask for this but in general its 800k in an account, they dont care less where it came from. I know of 3 guys in phuket who share the same 800k, moving to each account as required

 

Well I guess that's as good a reason as any for wanting to crack down on the shuffling of the same funds being used to accommodate those three guys. 

The reason for my asking my question re Transferwise is the first time I pitched up at Chaeng Wattana with my Baht 800k seasoned funds, the officer asked me to show the evidence that these funds had originated outside Thailand. The same officer also requested that I bring along all my passports that had Thai visa's in them. I pitched up the next day with eight passports and the letter from Kasikorn bank declaring the funds were within a transfer from UK received some time earlier. The passports received a cursory glance as all the visa's had been issued from the BOI One Stop shop.

But for me on that occasion there was definitely a requirement for me to show those funds originated from overseas, which fortunately for me they had.

[superal]

11 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

14 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The wife has just spoken with immigration,(kap choeng) they will accept letters of confirmation from embassies, if the UK wont issue them it's up to them

 

 

                            So is the British Embassy statement on income endorsement  applying to the Bangkok embassy only and not British Embassy globally ?  Could it be that an affirmation could be attained from another British embassy in a  nearby country ?

 

 

 

 

[sawadeeken]

That guy who heads the gov't presently and who is having to raise money to pay for some 'submarines and tanks' to pay for in coming years and all this 'inflow' of 800,000 here and there, due to this change, will 'swell' the funds that the banks hold within the country. Even though the money is yours, It is in Thailand and the banks are in posession of it till you withdraw it..... It is in the 'Bank's operating capital' and makes the country look more prosperous and in roundabout ways create less concern of gov't spending and makes more funds available for the gov't.........

Since 'Big Joke' is now heading the Immigrations he is a part of the 'scheme' to cause more expats to move more money (800,000 THB per expat) to Thailand for these new 'requirements'...........

By putting the 'squeeze' on the Embassies the Thai gov't and Immigrations may anticipate large amounts of money coming into the country....

Also..... Another thought, which isn't that 'far-fetched in Thailand' is 'pay-offs' to somebody in the Embassies to co-operate in this 'scheme'..... This just sharing a personal suspicion, without any concrete evidence........ LOL .....

[Psychic]

If this actually becomes a global Thai Immigration policy it is just another addle headed idea from some idle bureaucrat that will have nothing but unfavourable consequences.

 

Like driving out those who can't/won't put 800,000 in a Thai bank and in their old age are sick of dealing with aggravations like whether having a summation of bank deposits and income prove eligibility.

 

If the actual transfers to a bank are going to be "proof" then the calculators at Immigration offices are going to be working overtime.

 

I guess credit cards are foreign to them. Personally, I put about 20K on my Canadian card. That's money put into the Thai system but counts as nothing.

 

This seems, simply, as a way to get foreign currency put in the Thai banking system.

 

If a government issued income tax statement verified by the Canadian government is not proof of income then no such thing exists. 

 

It seems to me to be an attempt not so much as verifying income as attempting to somehow force that income to be spent in Thailand.

 

Having built a house, cooking our own food and not going to bars and having paid the kid's way through university (no credit for the millions paid for the house, car, motorbikes or education) we simply don't need much money to lead a simple, good life.

 

In  "normal" society marriage to a Thai citizen and years of leading a law abiding life would lead to the government making residence easier.

 

Not here. If I suddenly find my annual income reduced to 399,999 baht...out I go. Millions of baht of family assets count for nothing.

 

The worst part is that the scammers will find a way to game the system. They always do.

 

Groups of them pooling cash and moving it around, as some have suggested here for example.

 

Years ago when I was coming here permanently I told my coworkers Thailand was a great place to retire.

 

I don't tell them that anymore.

 

On a recent visit home I spoke to a friend who retired to Cabo, Mexico.

 

5 year visa, no checks every 90 days, access to basic Mexican healthcare, freedom to travel in and out at will and just as inexpensive as here (he lives on a small pension).

 

Personally, if not for my ties (and Thais) here I'd be there tomorrow morning.

 

For me this change, if it comes is not the end of the world.

 

I'll put the 400K in the bank, curtail credit card spending and even move some monthly into the wife's account to show income to make a visa to Canada easier.

 

I won't be spending anymore. In fact, I plan on spending considerably less. I was going to spend several million on a pool, home improvements and a second car.

 

Not anymore since I have lost all faith in the Thai government. They are fully capable of moving the goalposts again. And I might need that money.

 

Meanwhile, I have 3 retiree friends who were already seriously considering packing up and leaving. This may be the push they need.

 

As I've said numerous times I have no problem with Thailand trying to control scammers and people who abuse their immigration policies.

 

But they would be far better served by creating a "trusted immigrant" status for people who have abided by the laws for years and concentrating the majority if their resources to actually chasing down the "bad guys".

 

But, as I've said, I think the primary driver here is financial and wrong headed. A foreigner who spends 50K a month here spends nothing if he leaves.

 

I see more foreigner owned small businesses for sale than I've ever seen before. Friends who own restaurants in Chaam tell me business is worse every year.

 

The last thing they need to do is drive retirees away.

[SooKee]

My next extension is due in March. I use the income method from a pension and do transfers monthly. It's tempting to jump in and get the next Embassy letter now which will be valid 6 months. Just not sure if Thai Immigration will still be accepting them.

 

As has been said. It's all well and good the BE saying those using income will need to show funds coming in to the equivalent of 65k port month but in the absence of anything from immigration to say that will be accepted (up to now AFAIK, the income letter has been the only form of accepted proof). Thai Immigration will have to announce what THEY will accept.

 

If this is down to the embassy being unable to validate income as a result of a new requirement I can see other embassies pulling the plug on this service too.

 

Phoning local immigration offices today will have no bearing on what's happening tomorrow or indeed in another office. Added to the fact that you'd be unlikely to speaking to anyone high enough up the food chain to know exactly what the score is, or care for that matter.

 

 

 

 

[anon537687643]

Read the original post.. The Brit Embassy cannot varify peopkes income.. Too many using fake bank statements etc.. If you cant fufill the requirement or do not have funds go home.. 

It’s a convenient excuse that you believe !


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[maddermax]

I have provided evidence of my three pensions to the BE every year and they have issued a letter of income without problem every year. The immigration have accepted this letter without question every year so who is responsible for this process stopping?  If it is the BE they just confirm what lazy ba*****s they are. The income letter is the only help I have ever received from the diplomatic service, despite needing their assistance in various places around the world. They are a waste if space!

So it could be possible to obtain verification letters from my pension providers. Only question is, will the Thai ID accept such letters?  If it is the Thai authorities who have instigated stopping the income letter, then the latter is unlikely and we will have to bite the bullet and top up the savings in the fixed interest account to Baht 800k.

[anon537687643]

There is absolutely no need for posts like this, and frankly it's ignorant anyway for a number of reasons
 
I don't personally believe that fake bank accounts are the issue (which constitute criminal offences by the way so can be dealt with more seriously than they are now). The issue is more likely something more to do with other policy decisions being taken behind the scenes by Thai immigration as many, including myself, have posted or speculated about.
 
Equally, if you read the threads, it is clear (or unclear) that the actual requirements from Immigration are yet to be clarified. There is for example a world of difference between a requirement to prove you have funds of 65k a month in your home country and 65K a month actually in Thailand. Likewise, is that an average figure over 12 months or a requirement to have at least that transferred every month? Will funds into a foreign currency account be accepted? Will a letter from the bank be required? etc etc. If immigration want to change the goalposts, OK, but they need to give time for people to adjust (e.g. more than 3 months notice to arrange 800K transfer) and clarity regarding their actual requirements

Clearly the UK Embassy, Thai Immigration or both don’t “give a stuff” that this could cause huge problems for people who have lived in the country for a long time and established . Now it’s two months notice of a huge change ! It’s all about sending a message .... we don’t really want you !


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