BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[offset]

21 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

If the Stat Dec remains acceptable to other Embassies & the Immigration Dept. one wonders why the British Embassy doesn't adopt it for us Brits instead of just dumping the current system. In effect it is no difference to the Affirmation of Freedom to Marry.

I think the difference is you cannot go to the British Embassy it is all done through the post, the other Embassies you have to make a visit

[Expattaff1308]

Just now, offset said:

I think the difference is you cannot go to the British Embassy it is all done through the post, the other Embassies you have to make a visit

Used to make visits in previous years they can just have to re-introduce them

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

If the Stat Dec remains acceptable to other Embassies & the Immigration Dept. one wonders why the British Embassy doesn't adopt it for us Brits instead of just dumping the current system.

You're a little slow of late Taff! The British Embassy were doing this years ago but changed tack for a number of reasons which they explained each time they changed. I won't bother with the full monty but;

 

a) The prospect of having to travel IN PERSON to Bkk from the likes of Chiang Rai/Mai, Udon, Haat Yai, Samui/Phk just to sign a piece of paper is frankly not on and nor would the queues/security aspects be welcome for obvious reasons.

 

b  ) Their outstations (CM, Patters) no longer exist & Hon Consuls (CM, Patters, Phk, Samui) had their notary duties withdrawn at the same time. The only way a 'Stat Dec' would work to our satisfaction now would be for the embassy to conduct outreach missions every 3 months & that frankly isn't going to happen & couldn't be relied upon due to the likelihood of staff being regionally deployed elsewhere (Indonesia Tsunami?) at short notice.

 

The Embassy once again find themselves being portrayed as pantomime villains but as far as they are concerned anything from DWP etc should be as trusted by Thai Immigration as it has hitherto had to be by them (FCO) when presented by us. 

[Expattaff1308]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

You're a little slow of late Taff! The British Embassy were doing this years ago but changed tack for a number of reasons which they explained each time they changed. I won't bother with the full monty but;

 

a) The prospect of having to travel IN PERSON to Bkk from the likes of Chiang Rai/Mai, Udon, Haat Yai, Samui/Phk just to sign a piece of paper is frankly not on and nor would the queues/security aspects be welcome for obvious reasons.

 

b  ) Their outstations (CM, Patters) no longer exist & Hon Consuls (CM, Patters, Phk, Samui) had their notary duties withdrawn at the same time. The only way a 'Stat Dec' would work to our satisfaction now would be for the embassy to conduct outreach missions every 3 months & that frankly isn't going to happen & couldn't be relied upon due to the likelihood of staff being regionally deployed elsewhere (Indonesia Tsunami?) at short notice.

 

The Embassy once again find themselves being portrayed as pantomime villains but as far as they are concerned anything from DWP etc should be as trusted by Thai Immigration as it has hitherto had to be by them (FCO) when presented by us. 

Good Point but whats the alternative. I initially thought Immigration objections was the reasons for this change but today with no announcement by Imm I am starting to side with the Embassy knockers.

[selwonk]

If you have the correct funds and a Thai bank account.....whats the real problem?

 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

22 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i heard that the thai authorities are going to require thai residents to pay income tax on all their income worldwide. a new law says that anyone who stays in thailand for more than 183 days a year, is considered thai resident for tax purposes and must pay - and declare !! - all his income all over the world.

that is why thai banks require now thai residency certificate to open an accoutn - they are preparing the legal ground to prosecute any bank account holder who resides in thailand.

that is also why they make you sign a document stating your net worth and earnings, when you open a bank account. this is a preparation for tax colllection and prosecution.

that is also why the immigration form for 30 days visa waiver asks you about your income - in case that you visit thailand more than 183 days a year, even on 30 days visa waiver, thai authorities can use this form to slap you with a tax law suit.

so maybe the british embassy is doing you all a favour when it stops the income declartion  - it does not want to give the thai goverment information and  power over your income abroad.

Some of the replies to your post are rather dismissive, but I for one am not so quick to dismiss your ideas; I think you raise some good points but likely prematurely.

 

I took a look at the retirement visa scheme for Indonesia and was very surprised to see that Indonesia also taxes the world-wide income of its retirement visa holders (tax resident) as well - As an American, I thought that we were one of only a handful of countries, among them Libya, North Korea, Eritrea and the Philippines, that taxes world-wide income of citizens and resident aliens.

 

I thought he concept of taxing income which has no nexus (connection) to where earned was a particularly American and odious concept; apparently I was (surprisingly) wrong and doubly so to see it in a SE Asian country.

 

I know that the Philippines specifically exempts the income of it's retirement visa holders, so I thought that Indonesia would likely do so as well as do most countries that offer a retirement visa scheme, but I was unable to find a specific exemption for 'pension income'; it appears that a government retirement benefit, such as Social Security, is not taxed.

 

My point in bringing up Indonesia is that countries in SE Asia offering retirement schemes do pay attention to what goes on in other countries; for example, I find it likely that the rumored tightening of financial standards for the Malaysia My Second Home program is likely due to the Malaysians seeing what some retirees are up to in places like Thailand or the Philippines.

 

As others have pointed out, Thailand has been and is continuing to tighten its visa standards with a view to getting rid of what it deems 'lower quality' aliens and I'm sure that they are aware that Thailand is a desirable retirement destination so people wishing to retire there will put up with comparatively more hoops than in some other countries, so why not develop another revenue stream by trying to tax their worldwide income as well?

 

 

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Good Point but whats the alternative. I initially thought Immigration objections was the reasons for this change but today with no announcement by Imm I am starting to side with the Embassy knockers.

Imm won't have a clue until songkran when the first of many lands in their intray.

Edited October 9, 2018 by evadgib

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, selwonk said:

If you have the correct funds and a Thai bank account.....whats the real problem?

 

The problem is if you're British and want to do an income based application after the British embassy stops issuing income letters which are REQUIRED for income based applications. If you've been following this news you would know that already. 

[Shoeless Joe]

<SIGH>

 

Oh dear, is anyone (like me) beginning to get a very bad feeling about all of this?

 

If, as seems possible, the default financial position for retirement visa renewal becomes 800,000 baht deposited in a Thai bank account for 3 months  then it's going to mean that there will be some ex-pats who will have to leave the country because they just don't have £20,000 pounds available. I've seen a number of unhelpful posts suggesting that those ex-pats who go down the 65,000 baht monthly income route "deserve" to be ejected from Thailand because they should all have 800,000 baht on hand to deposit into their Thai bank account.

 

Well, that's not always possible. I have well in excess of 1.2 million baht coming in via pensions every year. But my ability to access my UK capital assets are limited because I've made long-term financial provisions for my children in the UK. Additionally I bought a reasonably expensive house here in Thailand which (unless I took a big financial hit and because of the glut of new homes on the housing market), I probably couldn't sell in under a year. However, ex-pats can demonstrate they have sufficient income via pensions. They just choose to fund their life in Thailand in a way that suits their financial circumstances better and which was / is acceptable to the Thai immigration authorities. I really hope there will quickly be some additional clarification regarding the process with regards to the 65,000 baht monthly income process. I (and it seems, many others) never really thought that their pension income might not be acceptable to the immigration authorities. But not having 800,000 baht and using the accepted alternative method doesn't make anyone a bad person.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

Edited October 9, 2018 by Shoeless Joe

[Shoeless Joe]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The problem is if you're British and want to do an income based application after the British embassy stops issuing income letters which are REQUIRED for income based applications. If you've been following this news you would know that already. 

Exactly!!

 

Joe

[Mac98]

I can show a monthly income of 65,000 but I can't transfer 65,000 because I pay credit cards from USA bank. These cards might be cancelled if I have foreign address. Any advice?

[selwonk]

I would think if the situation is changed ,there will be a new process, stay calm , don't panic

[Expattaff1308]

17 minutes ago, selwonk said:

If you have the correct funds and a Thai bank account.....whats the real problem?

 

Have the funds but Imm require a letter from the Embassy stating as much hence the point of this thread

[selwonk]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The problem is if you're British and want to do an income based application after the British embassy stops issuing income letters which are REQUIRED for income based applications. If you've been following this news you would know that already. 

Wouldn't  your bank be able to do that and then get the appropiate documentation from them to set up a transfer to a Thai bank account

 

[CharlieH]

 Nonsense post removed.

[selwonk]

3 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Have the funds but Imm require a letter from the Embassy stating as much hence the point of this thread

They haven't , started this process as yet

 

[Expattaff1308]

8 minutes ago, selwonk said:

They haven't , started this process as yet

 

I think you have missed the point

[selwonk]

23 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

<SIGH>

 

Oh dear, is anyone (like me) beginning to get a very bad feeling about all of this?

 

If, as seems possible, the default financial position for retirement visa renewal becomes 800,000 baht deposited in a Thai bank account for 3 months  then it's going to mean that there will be some ex-pats who will have to leave the country because they just don't have £20,000 pounds available. I've seen a number of unhelpful posts suggesting that those ex-pats who go down the 65,000 baht monthly income route "deserve" to be ejected from Thailand because they should all have 800,000 baht on hand to deposit into their Thai bank account.

 

Well, that's not always possible. I have well in excess of 1.2 million baht coming in via pensions every year. But my ability to access my UK capital assets are limited because I've made long-term financial provisions for my children in the UK. Additionally I bought a reasonably expensive house here in Thailand which (unless I took a big financial hit and because of the glut of new homes on the housing market), I probably couldn't sell in under a year. However, ex-pats can demonstrate they have sufficient income via pensions. They just choose to fund their life in Thailand in a way that suits their financial circumstances better and which was / is acceptable to the Thai immigration authorities. I really hope there will quickly be some additional clarification regarding the process with regards to the 65,000 baht monthly income process. I (and it seems, many others) never really thought that their pension income might not be acceptable to the immigration authorities. But not having 800,000 baht and using the accepted alternative method doesn't make anyone a bad person.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

As I understand you will still be able to do the income route eg 65K monthly, but it will have to be deposited into a Thai bank account

[selwonk]

10 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I think you have missed the point

 

10 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I think you have missed the point

What is your point?

 

[Expattaff1308]

Just now, selwonk said:

 

What is your point?

 

Exactly what this thread is about...

If you take the income route you need a Pension (income) letter from the Embassy to satisfy Imm requirements I have monthly pensions that meet the 65,000 a month but unless a letter from the embassy confirms that Thai Imm doesn't accept it

[Maestro]

6 minutes ago, selwonk said:

As I understand you will still be able to do the income route eg 65K monthly, but it will have to be deposited into a Thai bank account

Current rules do not require the income to be deposited in a Thai bank account and the Immigration Bureau has announced no change.i

[selwonk]

1 minute ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Exactly what this thread is about...

If you take the income route you need a Pension (income) letter from the Embassy to satisfy Imm requirements I have monthly pensions that meet the 65,000 a month but unless a letter from the embassy confirms that Thai Imm doesn't accept it

I think the new changes start next year, is not current now , if you have the correct criteria at the time of change and whatever else required all will be ok. Dont stress. mai pen rai

[blackhorse]

No problem at all, as long as you pay tax on the income.

Nobody I know pays tax including me. One day there will be yet another crackdown.

Maybe in 20 years

[Expattaff1308]

4 minutes ago, selwonk said:

I think the new changes start next year, is not current now , if you have the correct criteria at the time of change and whatever else required all will be ok. Dont stress. mai pen rai

My next Extension is due next August

[selwonk]

1 minute ago, Expattaff1308 said:

My next Extension is due next August

for peace of mind , Prior visit your immigration office and ask what is required, I am sure it will be all good

[Kalasin Jo]

If other Embassies are continuing this method then it is simply a British Embassy cop out due to moving premises and reducing staffing. Brits need to find out which it is. Answers here please.

 

If its just the BE COMPLAIN to the BE.

 

Last Saturday I could and did download the forms and instructions at the BE Bangkok website. Last night ...gone. Just the message that the service would end at the end of this year and the last date for getting in your request is 12 December. Mine will be going in before then. We'll see if I do get the letter what my IO does! And I'll be off if I can't get an extension. Thailand is not what it was anyway????????????

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, selwonk said:

Wouldn't  your bank be able to do that and then get the appropiate documentation from them to set up a transfer to a Thai bank account

 

No. Banks are not embassies. For income based applications, income letters are required from your embassy or consulate. 

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, selwonk said:

for peace of mind , Prior visit your immigration office and ask what is required, I am sure it will be all good

They will all tell you that EMBASSY income letters are required for income based applications. That won't "be all good" if you're British and need an income letter from your embassy.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Jingthing

[CharlieH]

Misleading info post/bickering removed and responses.

[selwonk]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Dude, this is getting weird. A number of people on this forum have ALREADY talked to their offices and the reports which are totally predictable is that there is NO CHANGE in immigration policy and none announced. One officer made it clear that a Brit attempting an income based application without an embassy income letter would be meeting an understandable BRICK WALL. They are required. 

Well you go with that....and see what happens next year, hope all is good....Cheers