BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

I have just received this from the British Embassy

"Our British Embassy in Bangkok currently issues a pension letter as a supporting document for British nationals applying for a Thai retirement or marriage visa application.  The Thai authorities have confirmed that they want the British Embassy to verify the income of British nationals which they are unable to do.  They/We would refer such requests to the issuing authority.   Therefore, the current letter does not fulfil the Thai authorities requirements so we need to stop issuing it so it is not misinterpreted as verification."

 

Obviously Thai Immigration is behind this move so for once the British Embassy is not to blame. It would seem that in due course all other Embassies will be affected. I have never understood why a copy of UK bank statement and a Thai Bank statement hasn't been sufficient evidence for Immigration. I know of people who do falsify the information that they give the Embassy to verify. Those people have caused the problem.

So those same people will just falsify their statements for the IO now.

Edited October 18, 2018 by soalbundy

[Esso49]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

So those same people will just falsify their statements for the IO now.

Too true and that was the root of the problem initially perhaps. Plus it appears the British Embassy are now sending slightly differently worded emails out to some TV members that are also grammatically wrong ????

[soalbundy]

Just now, Esso49 said:

Too true and that was the root of the problem initially perhaps. Plus it appears the British Embassy are now sending slightly differently worded emails out to some TV members that are also grammatically wrong ????

written by a Thai trainee probably, they have enough of them.

[dick dasterdly]

53 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

No swearing, No signature, I show the original letters from my two pension suppliers and a screen shot of my internet banking account showing the two amounts being deposited plus passport, it all goes into the computer where my previous applications are stored and the letter is printed out in English showing the amount in Euro and Baht.

Then what is the point of needing to visit the Embassy?

 

I always appreciated being able to post the necessary proof of income to the BE - and always sent original document in support of my application, not photocopies etc.

[pontious]

8 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

So those same people will just falsify their statements for the IO now.

Immigration will not consider them without an Embassy letter.

[BritTim]

13 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

Obviously Thai Immigration is behind this move so for once the British Embassy is not to blame. It would seem that in due course all other Embassies will be affected. I have never understood why a copy of UK bank statement and a Thai Bank statement hasn't been sufficient evidence for Immigration. I know of people who do falsify the information that they give the Embassy to verify. Those people have caused the problem.

Once at least one other embassy declares itself unable to provide this service, I might be willing to accept that the British Embassy is blameless. If it turns out that, ultimately, only UK citizens are affected by the change in policy, while it could be antipathy towards Brits by the Thai authorities, I will choose to believe it another example of UK expats being let down by their own government.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Then what is the point of needing to visit the Embassy?

 

I always appreciated being able to post the necessary proof of income to the BE - and always sent original document in support of my application, not photocopies etc.

You only need to visit for the first application where more vigorous questioning may take place, once it has been established that you are in all probability telling the truth you are in their system and for later applications can apply by post. I prefer to go personally each year because I am wary of the Thai postal system.

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, pontious said:

Immigration will not consider them without an Embassy letter.

correct, for now. If, and it's a big if, other embassies follow the BE lead then the IO may change their system although they don't have to of course.

[steve73]

48 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

A reply to my mail to the Embassy....

 

(snip..) 

 

To assist customers, our Embassy in Bangkok has published details on their website of the change in service and what option is available to customers and what those requirements are.  Further details can be found at:  

at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

 

Regards

 

Sarah Peth  Deputy Consul & Head of Operations

The text in the above quoted link is as follows:

"British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa. For a marriage visa, the amounts are 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa."

 

This suggests a Thai bank letter should now be an acceptable proof for the income method.

We just need all the Thai I/O officers to read this and agree.

[steve73]

Also from the gov.uk web-page, they include the following "advice for how to open a Thai Bank account."

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/746311/How_to_open_a_bank_account_-_infographic.pdf

 

This graphic seems to show a winter scene with X-mas trees, reindeer, and snow.

 

Perhaps they are implying "You haven't a snowball's chance in hell"

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, steve73 said:

The text in the above quoted link is as follows:

"British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa. For a marriage visa, the amounts are 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa."

 

This suggests a Thai bank letter should now be an acceptable proof for the income method.

We just need all the Thai I/O officers to read this and agree.

''I am just a small bear of little brain'' said Pooh, ''what do you think Piglet''

''I think we should ask Rabbit or Christopher Robin, they are sure to know''

So they left the 100 acre wood and went to look for Christopher Robin who was playing Pooh sticks with Sarah Peth.

"What do you think Sarah about the IO accepting proof of income without an embassy letter'' asked Christopher Robin when he had listened to Pooh bear.

''I couldn't give a frigging sh1t'' said Sarah smiling, ''It's your turn to throw a stick Pooh.'' 

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Also from the gov.uk web-page, they include the following "advice for how to open a Thai Bank account."

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/746311/How_to_open_a_bank_account_-_infographic.pdf

 

This graphic seems to show a winter scene with X-mas trees, reindeer, and snow.

 

Perhaps they are implying "You haven't a snowball's chance in hell"

Or, this is how you open an account in Russia but we can't verify that.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am not aware of them ever doing a stat dec for proof of income at the UK embassy. The only change was that they started allowing them to be mailed in and then only accepting mailed applications.

In this day and age there is no need for the trip to Bangkok to take 12 hours or more unless a person does not want to pay for a plane ticket. I think most people live within 3 or 4 hours or less from an airport.

I have to make a trip to Bangkok every every year for my proof of income. Since immigration did the directive that one would be accepted that is up to 6 months old it has made it easier to plan a trip at my convenience. I have done a day trip to Bangkok to get one by air before.

The act of signing in person was a 'stat dec' prior to the inclusion of a disclaimer passing the onus to applicants; furthermore their receipts and fee table listed it as such.

 

HTH

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, steve73 said:

The text in the above quoted link is as follows:

"British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa. For a marriage visa, the amounts are 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa."

 

This suggests a Thai bank letter should now be an acceptable proof for the income method.

We just need all the Thai I/O officers to read this and agree.

But the actual reply to the poster says:-

 

"When withdrawing a service we do look at what other options are available to the customer to assist them in meeting the requirements of the receiving authority.  There is an alternative for customers to demonstrate that they meet the financial requirement for their retirement or marriage visa by holding a Thai bank account showing the minimum funds needed."

 

I'm not sure how this can be construed as anything other than 'the only option will be 400/800k in Thai bank'.

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Based on what? 

Um, irony?

[JimGant]

Quote

No swearing, No signature, I show the original letters from my two pension suppliers and a screen shot of my internet banking account showing the two amounts being deposited plus passport, it all goes into the computer where my previous applications are stored and the letter is printed out in English showing the amount in Euro and Baht.

Sounds just like what the Swiss procedure is. Do you have to click your heels?????

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, Expattaff1308 said:

"We are unable to provide a Statutory Declaration  to fulfil these requirements as this is not a service which we provide."

I love the bureaucratic logic. Can't argue with that.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

Sounds just like what the Swiss procedure is. Do you have to click your heels?????

No and that is a gross misconception of modern day Germany.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I love the bureaucratic logic. Can't argue with that.

You mean 'we cant do it as much as we dont want to.'

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, wayned said:

2 hours ago, 5633572526 said:

Please report back when you find out.

I did mine yesterday in  Bangkok and asked the same question.  The Vice Consul said that they are currently evaluating the situation and went further on to explain, which I knew , that the document only certifies what the applicant had but on it and swore under oath that it was true.   They also added additional wordage to the document to explain this.  She went on to say that Immigration wants to see proof and should accept backup information rather than the document.  Yopu should have seen her face when I accused her of talking to the "Twit" at the UK Embassy.  I told her that I always had backup but Immigration, in Nakhon Sawan, did not ever want to see it and  only wanted the document.  I confirmed this with the NS IO yesterday afternoon when I did my 1 year extension.  She said that the law would have to change before they could accept only the backup info without the Affidavit!

Interesting conversation- what was the wording they added?   The person at the Embassy indicated there would have to be a change in the law  for the Thai Imm to be able to accept added proof without the Embassy Letter. Did she mean Thai Law and since there has been no change in the law- will they still issue the letter for the forseable future?

[Thaidream]

9 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

"We are unable to provide a Statutory Declaration  to fulfil these requirements as this is not a service which we provide."

If a UK citizen needs a document  from the UK notarized and on that document they have to list their income and source- where in Thailand do they go and get  a signature? This is normally a function of the Embassy.

[Exploring Thailand]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If a UK citizen needs a document  from the UK notarized and on that document they have to list their income and source- where in Thailand do they go and get  a signature? This is normally a function of the Embassy.

The BE directs you to this list.  These are the only notarial services the embassy provides.

[CharlieH]

 Just a thought,

.........the requirement is a letter from the British Embassy, well its doesnt state BE Bangkok so couldnt it be got from Laos ?? Or other BE ? Or are they saying ALL BE are stopping the service ?? in which case that would be way more than 3000.

 

Just apply by post to another B.Embassy......just a thought.

[Esso49]

5 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

 Just a thought,

.........the requirement is a letter from the British Embassy, well its doesnt state BE Bangkok so couldnt it be got from Laos ?? Or other BE ? Or are they saying ALL BE are stopping the service ?? in which case that would be way more than 3000.

Well just took a look at what they do in Singapore High Commision and it's not a great deal.  However there was this link that has potential in the future perhaps https://www.gov.uk/get-document-legalised 

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

 Just a thought,

.........the requirement is a letter from the British Embassy, well its doesnt state BE Bangkok so couldnt it be got from Laos ?? Or other BE ? Or are they saying ALL BE are stopping the service ?? in which case that would be way more than 3000.

It's possibly an FCO requirement for all embassies but what about the commonwealth route I suggested, may work if the Aussy or Canadian embassies play ball or indeed any embassy of a country in the commonwealth

[wayned]

27 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Interesting conversation- what was the wording they added?   The person at the Embassy indicated there would have to be a change in the law  for the Thai Imm to be able to accept added proof without the Embassy Letter. Did she mean Thai Law and since there has been no change in the law- will they still issue the letter for the forseable future?

They added: "The U.S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement.. Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein."  The new form is available on the ACS website.  The iO told me that they will only accept the letter until Thai law is changed and the Vice Consul said there is no plan to discontinue the letter at tihs time.

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It's possibly an FCO requirement for all embassies but what about the commonwealth route I suggested, may work if the Aussy or Canadian embassies play ball or indeed any embassy of a country in the commonwealth

Question with that is whether the Thai I.O. would accept it an alternate country for a Brit ?

 

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, wayned said:

They added: "The U.S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement.. Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein."  The new form is available on the ACS website.  The iO told me that they will only accept the letter until Thai law is changed and the Vice Consul said there is no plan to discontinue the letter at tihs time.

whose vice consul, not the British ?

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, wayned said:

They added: "The U.S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement.. Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein."  The new form is available on the ACS website.  The iO told me that they will only accept the letter until Thai law is changed and the Vice Consul said there is no plan to discontinue the letter at tihs time.

Thank you for responding-  IMHO- this makes perfect sense-  the fact that you swear an Oath- makes one criminally liable for what is stated. Should Thai Imm ask for added proof and that proof  does  not match- then the onus is on the individual. This is what a statutory declaration does and is for.  

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Question with that is whether the Thai I.O. would accept it an alternate country for a Brit ?

 

Yes, the concept of 'commonwealth' would have to be explained to IO, the  British queen is boss so there is the British link and they love royalty