UK govt petitioned to reinstate proof of income letters for British expats in Thailand

[Thaidream]

Not concerned about any fees or interest-  I don't care for Thai banks- their systems or their bureaucracy

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Not concerned about any fees or interest-  I don't care for Thai banks- their systems or their bureaucracy

Why not try a small amount in SCB and put SCB Easy on your phone.  Unless you are prejudiced for some reason I think you will be pleasantly surprised.  If you already have a preconceived impression created by reading all the negativity on this or other forums - sorry I mentioned a rational approach.  

[Psimbo]

6 hours ago, rak sa_ngop said:

It is such a "no brainer".

 

I read somewhere that the average retiree costs the NHS about 7,000 or 8,000 pounds a year in medical costs. And I can believe it based on some of my now deceased parents friends who were in the doctors surgery almost every week with a new complaint.

 

The British government should be bending over backwards to help British retirees stay overseas. Every retiree that is forced back to the UK will add extra stress and cost to the overloaded National Health Service.

 

And furthermore they should be giving all pensioners the State pension increments to encourage them to stay overseas. In fact they should pay pensioners extra to retire overseas. Such short sightedness!!!

 

 

Apparently this is what the Japanese do.

[dabhand]

41 minutes ago, Surasak said:

WHY? If you don't earn money in Thailand, you don't pay tax on it.

Hope you are not a tax advisor.

[galt67]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Sorry- a Notarization stamp can be forged- bank statements forged and on and on.

At some point- there has to be a preponderance of evidence that makes the odds of forgery minimal

A.  Income declared- attested to under Oath

B.  Letters from  Pension; Government letters;  Company Letters

C.  Bank Summary for 3 months showing amounts in- where from- amounts out

D.   Bank Debit Cards showing account info- debit card numbers- codes on reverse

E.   ATM Slips.

 

Could some be forged- probably.  Could all be forged- not practical. Don't know anyone that forge ATM Debit Cards or that they would go to that extent simply to stay in Thailand

 

The job of an Immigration Officer is to make decisions of what info is needed to establish veracity. If they suspect fraud- they can issue an extension and send the case to a Special Investigation Team who then looks at the total record; visits the home; communicates directly with other agencies.  If it's a fraud- they will eventually be caught.

 

It is not the job of any Embassy to do all that and every Embassy in Thailand has already said that- through the disclaimer that is placed on the  Embassy Letter.

 

Simply issue the income letter as is- let the Immigration Office then decide  who to ask for added info.  If the IO  suspects certain Nationalities are more prone to potential fraud- ask everyone to provide backup info- Others use spot checks- every 50 applicants- ask 2 at random for added info.  There is no 100% foolproof system.

 

 

What IF Imm. 'required' a Thai bank book (for extensions) showing 12-monthly deposits of at least, an average, of 40/65k per month?

 

Seemingly this would prevent most fraud and avoid language comprehension issues of foreign documents.

[Redline]

7 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

My thoughts are that the Embassies should provide them, but only to those who can provide actual proof of their income.  I can't speak for any Brits, but I know a couple of Americans who get the Income Verification from the U.S. Consulate here in Chiang Mai, who do not meet the financial requirements. And this is what Immigration wants to eliminate. If you're legal, no problem.  If you're not, your out of here, as it should be. 

 

Yes, and I think the issue here is that the embassy is not going to track down everyone’s income sources, nor is that part of their job.  In addition, Trump has cut the budget significantly, so even if they wanted to provide the service, the manpower is not available 

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

I will repeat my thoughts again. Thailand does not want you here. You are not in the Thailand of 10 years ago any more and every year it gets worse. It doesn't matter if you are following the law are not. They are arresting and deporting the bad guys and at the same time finding ways to screw over the good guys by making them jump through sometimes impossible hoops or flat out just finding excuses to deny you a visa. Be wise and start making plans to get out of here while you still have time before you are stuck losing everything with a few days to leave. Spread the word and start looking into other countries. I chose Panama. 

 

The Thailand of the America's is Panama. 

You can own land, a house, and easily get your permanent residency card for not much. I know because I already have mine and am now working on my citizenship there. This is the company I used. 

https://www.joyful-feet.com/panama-permanent-residency/

Before anyone for the millionth time comments something like "Why are you still here" or "If you don't like it just leave already" I have no choice but to come to Thailand frequently to meet business clients for my export business or else I would never come back here again. But I tell you the truth, not worrying about exiting the country for a visa, 90 day reporting, and address reporting everytime I leave my home for 24 hours I do not miss not one bit when I return home to Panama.

Do you think that Panama will profit with the folks starting false rumors that America will change it's income letter policy?

[zydeco]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Making no decision is what the Thais would normally do rather than generate a potential confrontation

Yes.  But the British Embassy decided to go nuclear on this issue and make it a public confrontation, while all the other embassies were likely waiting for things to die back down like they usually do.

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Yes.  But the British Embassy decided to go nuclear on this issue and make it a public confrontation, while all the other embassies were likely waiting for things to die back down like they usually do.

 

 

You know the British (Embassy) will take the moral high ground 

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Do you remember when Tony P sent the box of ears to the American Embassy in Laos on a Friday and they sat on a desk all weekend till the secretaries opened them up on Monday? 

That may or may not have happened.  Lots of blown up nonsense said about the CIA and AAM in Laos all those years ago.  Most of it a fantasy.

[Thaidream]

36 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Why not try a small amount in SCB and put SCB Easy on your phone.  Unless you are prejudiced for some reason I think you will be pleasantly surprised.  If you already have a preconceived impression created by reading all the negativity on this or other forums - sorry I mentioned a rational approach.  

Your approach is quite rational but after many decades in and out of Thailand- I have had many Thai Bank Accounts and a run in with a Bank Manager- who thought I could not speak Thai but I understand exactly what she said- vowed never to open another Thai Account. A very personal experience that I will not dwell on nor mention the bank .

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, Issanjohn said:

Actually I don’t recall that particularly but now that you mentioned it it does ring a bell.  I think I remember hearing some story like that but I only visited Laos a few times.  I mostly dealt with Korea and several other countries when I was assigned to Japan.  I’ve worked with people at many embassies around Asia but I never actually worked inside the embassy.  We were assigned to an undisclosed location in Tokyo.  

He's talking about events that happened 45 years ago.

[The Deerhunter]

That is one flip flop that Falangs on TVF will be looking forward to.  Me too if my country said they were going to do it.

[Thaidream]

30 minutes ago, galt67 said:

What IF Imm. 'required' a Thai bank book (for extensions) showing 12-monthly deposits of at least, an average, of 40/65k per month?

 

Seemingly this would prevent most fraud and avoid language comprehension issues of foreign documents.

Then go ahead and change the Thai Immigration Act of 1979 as well as the current Police Order- until then it is just  individual offices asking for other items such as  ministry verification of signatures;  pictures for retirement extensions;  health certificate verification etc etc.

[zydeco]

43 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

I will repeat my thoughts again. Thailand does not want you here. You are not in the Thailand of 10 years ago any more and every year it gets worse. It doesn't matter if you are following the law are not. They are arresting and deporting the bad guys and at the same time finding ways to screw over the good guys by making them jump through sometimes impossible hoops or flat out just finding excuses to deny you a visa. Be wise and start making plans to get out of here while you still have time before you are stuck losing everything with a few days to leave. Spread the word and start looking into other countries. I chose Panama. 

 

The Thailand of the America's is Panama. 

You can own land, a house, and easily get your permanent residency card for not much. I know because I already have mine and am now working on my citizenship there. This is the company I used. 

https://www.joyful-feet.com/panama-permanent-residency/

Before anyone for the millionth time comments something like "Why are you still here" or "If you don't like it just leave already" I have no choice but to come to Thailand frequently to meet business clients for my export business or else I would never come back here again. But I tell you the truth, not worrying about exiting the country for a visa, 90 day reporting, and address reporting everytime I leave my home for 24 hours I do not miss not one bit when I return home to Panama. 

 

 

 

Thanks for that. Before I came here--invited to work by a Thai institution--I was actually thinking of Central America.  In particular, Cost Rica.  But CR has exploded up in expenses.  Hadn't really thought of Panama.  But far easier to navigate in Spanish than Thai.  Would have done Mexico before it became a war zone 25 years ago.

[galt67]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Then go ahead and change the Thai Immigration Act of 1979 as well as the current Police Order- until then it is just  individual offices asking for other items such as  ministry verification of signatures;  pictures for retirement extensions;  health certificate verification etc etc.

3

Perhaps you missed my reply that was specifically regarding 'financial proof of income'...?

 

Nevertheless, I, personally am unaware of Imm requesting 'pictures for retirement extensions;  health certificate verification etc etc.'

 

In the hundreds of comments here, it's never been mentioned except by yourself.

 

 

[Pedrogaz]

I wonder who has signed this petition....I'm guessing folk who do not have 400K or 800K to lodge in bank fr a few months. What I cannot understand is that Thailand is not a cheap place to live, how the hell can you survive on 400 or 800K per year. What do you do all day long? I go to Tesco every a few times a week and am astonished at the prices....go back home to Aldi and food are less than half price....clothing is less than half price....booze bought in a supermarket is at least as cheap and yes, cigs are more expensive, unless you but them in the pub from a bloke. Why on earth would you want to be poor in Thailand?

 

[zzaa09]

6 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Perhaps you missed my reply that was specifically regarding 'financial proof of income'...?

 

Nevertheless, I, personally am unaware of Imm requesting 'pictures for retirement extensions;  health certificate verification etc etc.'

 

In the hundreds of comments here, it's never been mentioned except by yourself.

 

 

A firm understanding of how each immigration office operates, as they all have their own interpretation [and indifference] regardless od said universal national policies. You'll find that procedures and bureaucracy differs from place to place. 

 

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, galt67 said:

n the hundreds of comments here, it's never been mentioned except by yourself.

Phuket immigration has asked for retirement extensions to provide pics of their address

 

Kho Samui Immigration asks retirees to get a medical certificate signed by  a Hospital 

Nonthaburi Immigration asks  those presenting the  embassy letter to go to the Miistry of Foreign Affairs to get  the statement certified .

 

There maybe more but these stick out in my memory-   None of these requests are covered by the Police Order except that the IO can always ask for added information or documentation.

 

Financial proof of income is easily provided when retired- every point of income generates some document that can be obtained unless your income stream is illegal and using cash only.

 

To be honest- after almost 50 years of  providing real and accurate information to Immigration- I grow weary of the absurdity of all this.  If I was not married to a Thai and responsible for family- I would go somewhere else.  The xenophobia  which has always been present is reaching levels of absurdity.  If Immigration suspects fraud- let them take the perpetrator to court. convict them and jail them. 

[marcusarelus]

26 minutes ago, zydeco said:

He's talking about events that happened 45 years ago.

55

[observer90210]

How about getting all the bar stool buddies, to stage a beer strike in front of Teresa May's residence at 10 Downing St. !! ????

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I wonder who has signed this petition....I'm guessing folk who do not have 400K or 800K to lodge in bank fr a few months. What I cannot understand is that Thailand is not a cheap place to live, how the hell can you survive on 400 or 800K per year. What do you do all day long? I go to Tesco every a few times a week and am astonished at the prices....go back home to Aldi and food are less than half price....clothing is less than half price....booze bought in a supermarket is at least as cheap and yes, cigs are more expensive, unless you but them in the pub from a bloke. Why on earth would you want to be poor in Thailand?

 

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everybody smokes. Also many people have bought an house so don't have to find rent, electric tends to be cheaper in an house than a condo I would imagine. I would sooner be poorer in Thailand than my home country where my poor old bones ache all the time.

You ask what do you do all day long, I personally play guitar and also play golf, am I jealous of someone that gets stupified in a bar every day, well no.

 

[galt67]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Phuket immigration has asked for retirement extensions to provide pics of their address

 

Kho Samui Immigration asks retirees to get a medical certificate signed by  a Hospital 

Nonthaburi Immigration asks  those presenting the  embassy letter to go to the Miistry of Foreign Affairs to get  the statement certified .

 

There maybe more but these stick out in my memory-   None of these requests are covered by the Police Order except that the IO can always ask for added information or documentation.

 

Financial proof of income is easily provided when retired- every point of income generates some document that can be obtained unless your income stream is illegal and using cash only.

 

To be honest- after almost 50 years of  providing real and accurate information to Immigration- I grow weary of the absurdity of all this.  If I was not married to a Thai and responsible for family- I would go somewhere else.  The xenophobia  which has always been present is reaching levels of absurdity.  If Immigration suspects fraud- let them take the perpetrator to court. convict them and jail them. 

Thank you for the detailed comment. I had ZERO idea regarding the vast inconsistencies across the country (excluding requesting 'income proof').

 

For ME, obtaining a 20 year TE thus eliminating my contact with Imm. seems like a wise move. I, too, grew 'weary' of the few visits I did make much less decades of them as you did.

 

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

How about getting all the bar stool buddies, to stage a beer strike in front of Teresa May's residence at 10 Downing St. !! ????

The only problem with that, she may not be there at the end of the month. ????

[Pedrogaz]

6 hours ago, Luckysilk said:

And how would you feel if in your home country anyone could simply get on a plane and land in your country and live happily ever after spending a mere 65k a month or better yet 800k in a bank account ?

 

I would be very pleased if all the immigrants to the UK had to show they had 800K Baht  or equivalant in a bank account. They would not be eligible for housing benefit or welfare.

[steve73]

1 hour ago, galt67 said:

What IF Imm. 'required' a Thai bank book (for extensions) showing 12-monthly deposits of at least, an average, of 40/65k per month?

 

Seemingly this would prevent most fraud and avoid language comprehension issues of foreign documents.

Yes, I agree this would be a sensible requirement for many retirees here, but there are some who don't spend the entire 12 months based here.  Many return to their own countries for 3-6 months, or spend significant time travelling to other countries in the region.  It would be crazy (and expensive) for them to need to deposit a years worth of monthly income, only to need to use it elsewhere or to return it back to their own country.

Perhaps a Thai bank book to show the required monthly income in say the 3 (or 6) months immediately prior to their extensions being applied for - this would certainly deter those that were unable to meet the monthly criteria.

But as another poster pointed out, this would require a complete rewriting of the Retirees requirements, and the Thais would probably take to opportunity to double them like they did last time around in c. 2000.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I wonder who has signed this petition....I'm guessing folk who do not have 400K or 800K to lodge in bank fr a few months. What I cannot understand is that Thailand is not a cheap place to live, how the hell can you survive on 400 or 800K per year. What do you do all day long? I go to Tesco every a few times a week and am astonished at the prices....go back home to Aldi and food are less than half price....clothing is less than half price....booze bought in a supermarket is at least as cheap and yes, cigs are more expensive, unless you but them in the pub from a bloke. Why on earth would you want to be poor in Thailand?

 

What is your largest budget item? 

[Pedrogaz]

I must add here that I fully support the British Embassy here. They do a fantastic job of telling g you what they cannot do for you. A trip to the consul's office will show that there are tens of posters around the walls that tell you the Embassy cannot help you if you get drunk, get arrested, get sick, need to get home. Say what you will but the British have standards and for the foreign office helping its citizens, that standard is extremely low.

[Humpy]

 Surely your bankbook is proof that you have the required monies and have had them in your account for three months. Your bank manager will give you a letter to that effect and it will cost you 100 Baht. Show this to Immigration together with your bankbook. Make sure the bank letter is dated the same day that you visit Immigration.The Embassy see only what you have shown them and assume that they are 'genuine' and then charge you 2600 Baht for the 'service'.  

[Pedrogaz]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What is your largest budget item? 

Electricity. About 11000 a month for the aircon.