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UK govt petitioned to reinstate proof of income letters for British expats in Thailand


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18 hours ago, rak sa_ngop said:

It is such a "no brainer".

 

I read somewhere that the average retiree costs the NHS about 7,000 or 8,000 pounds a year in medical costs. And I can believe it based on some of my now deceased parents friends who were in the doctors surgery almost every week with a new complaint.

 

The British government should be bending over backwards to help British retirees stay overseas. Every retiree that is forced back to the UK will add extra stress and cost to the overloaded National Health Service.

 

And furthermore they should be giving all pensioners the State pension increments to encourage them to stay overseas. In fact they should pay pensioners extra to retire overseas. Such short sightedness!!!

 

 

Put this to the British Government instead of the issuing of letters which is a no go, this will also end up a no go. But will keep you busy while waiting for your flight home to reap the rewards waiting for you there.

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18 hours ago, rak sa_ngop said:

It is such a "no brainer".

 

I read somewhere that the average retiree costs the NHS about 7,000 or 8,000 pounds a year in medical costs. And I can believe it based on some of my now deceased parents friends who were in the doctors surgery almost every week with a new complaint.

 

The British government should be bending over backwards to help British retirees stay overseas. Every retiree that is forced back to the UK will add extra stress and cost to the overloaded National Health Service.

 

And furthermore they should be giving all pensioners the State pension increments to encourage them to stay overseas. In fact they should pay pensioners extra to retire overseas. Such short sightedness!!!

 

 

 And if they go back supply accommodation and pay their rent,free buses,dental, etc etc.????

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1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

 And if they go back supply accommodation and pay their rent,free buses,dental, etc etc.????

I don't think so, even female prisoners who on their release have nowhere to stay are given a tent ! You're on your own if, like me, you've burnt your bridges, Hyde park in winter can be very cold ????

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1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

I don't think so, even female prisoners who on their release have nowhere to stay are given a tent ! You're on your own if, like me, you've burnt your bridges, Hyde park in winter can be very cold ????

Your wrong if you have accommodation your rent is paid

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2 minutes ago, Chopperboy said:

Petitioning - what a blissful waste of time.

Look how they treated the Brexit vote... do you really believe thats the actions of a democracy?

 

Reality check - Britain is a Plurocracy or even a Pedocracy but its not a democracy.

but they tip toe around the edge

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1 hour ago, jgarbo said:

You don't understand "embassies". They exist to promote high level diplomacy, trade and international relations. Helping expats with pensions is a nuisance, handled if at all by low level staff. 

Thats a nice way of putting it...

Embassies are beachheads use for the business/ financial/ intelligence interests of the Elite and to push their political agenda. The Plebs are just a nuisance.

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6 minutes ago, Chopperboy said:

Thats a nice way of putting it...

Embassies are beachheads use for the business/ financial/ intelligence interests of the Elite and to push their political agenda. The Plebs are just a nuisance.

On the nail there,which is why patriotism is stupid

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7 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

If a letter from the bank to prove a balance of 800,000 baht is acceptable, I do not see why a letter from the bank to prove monthly foreign transfers of 65,000 baht or more should not be acceptable (or the equivalent quarterly/biannual foreign transfers).

 

Clearly, the 800,000 baht in the bank option is much more susceptible to fraud than the monthly foreign transfer.

EI asked BKK bank CM if they would do this for me. Answer - No.

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9 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

Like I said I don’t recall but I do remember hearing that story somewhere before after he mentioned it.  It just sounds familiar but I don’t recall the incident.  But seriously 45 years ago?  What was the ears all about?  

Tony Poshepny (aka Tony Po) as a CIA case manager working with AAM during the Vietnam War era in Laos during the so-called Secret War.  He supposedly had the ears of Pathet Lao and their sympathizers cut off as a message.  This may or may not have happened.  A lot of wild exaggerations occurred during the war.  Laos was the Wild West.  I know a couple of older guys in their 80s who are still here in Thailand who knew and worked with him.  They said he was a good but ferocious guy in war.  He was very well liked by the Lao people.

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13 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I wonder who has signed this petition....I'm guessing folk who do not have 400K or 800K to lodge in bank fr a few months. What I cannot understand is that Thailand is not a cheap place to live, how the hell can you survive on 400 or 800K per year. What do you do all day long? I go to Tesco every a few times a week and am astonished at the prices....go back home to Aldi and food are less than half price....clothing is less than half price....booze bought in a supermarket is at least as cheap and yes, cigs are more expensive, unless you but them in the pub from a bloke. Why on earth would you want to be poor in Thailand?

 

If all you eat is Western food, then, yes, it's more expensive.  But if you eat like a Thai, it isn't.

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16 minutes ago, maybefitz said:

I asked BKK bank CM if they would do this for me. Answer - No.

Doesn't surprise me-  I use an American Debit card to get money from my US Account- don't need a Thai Bank Account-  Have monthly bank statement as proof with ATM location  lited clearly in Thailand. Also backed up by ATM slips and in my possession the ATM cards. Thai Imm has always accepted such documentation in the past as back up proof.  

Actually- they have never needed the  Embassy Letter as no Embassy has ever guaranteed the information was correct- 

 

The best solution is to continue the letters- have the applicant take an Oath under penalty of perjury and then let the Thai Imm ask for added proof if they suspect  fraud or simply ask for the proof at random- every   25th applicant or every 50th. 

 

There is no 100% guaranteed system that will eliminate  fraud- one uses multiple systems to get to as close as 100% credibility as possible.  Embassy Letter plus back up docs plus random added info. 

\

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16 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Sorry- a Notarization stamp can be forged-

Wrong, the UK embassy would use a secure method, UK notaries public have a unique stamp which can be very easily verified.

 

UK notaries use a steel stamp unique to their notarial practice. 

https://www.mdpryke-notary.com/2010/04/uk-notaries-public-–-how-they-differ-from-us-notaries-–-part-3/

 

As I said before, the Thai bank account is an easier option than the embassy requesting notarised documents.

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Just to let everyone know I have just e-mailed [email protected].

 

Received an automated reply saying my letter cannot be dealt with as I am not resident in South West Surrey.

 

Instead to contact him at;

[email protected]

 

Sorry if this is a repetition of another post - I must admit I haven't read all of them.

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The Thai government seem quick to issue new requirements about anything and everything with a U-turn issued a couple of days later...

Lets hope the British embassy can do likewise and keep supporting UK expats with a worthwhile consular service !!

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10 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I used to show originals sent every year by the civil service, I also used to take them along to Imm and attach my original letter from the Civil Service to the pension letter and show them the original from the DWP and give them a copy because that amount doesnt change, what more can I do?

I don't know about your office but mine was never interested in anything other than the embassy letter, unless of course it was combination. Immigration deal with people from all around the world, civil service and DWP mean a lot to you but little to them, Thai bank accounts they do understand.

At the end of the day it is not up to what you can do, rather what they will want to see.

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10 hours ago, David Walden said:

5 years ago at meeting of the Chiang Mai expats club.  The then British Consul was the guest speaker at a social meeting with Q and A after.  He said there were about 68,000 Brits living in Thailand.  Most of them are elderly, many have planned their lives end in Thailand when it happens.  There were about 130 staff at the Embassy and Consulate, half Brits and half Thais working for the Embassy.  He said 50% of each work day time is taken up sorting out issues of Brits living in Thailand who have died there.  Many go and live in Thailand when their time is near,  All can be quite involved, those attending need quite a lot of experience with these matters with legal and funeral arrangements. Most surviving partners do not have a clue what to do legally if one dies or how to go about anything.  Most are single mature aged men who often don't have a will.  It's pretty well all up to the Embassy to sort things out and it takes a lot of time.

Well, they are spending time that the US embassy doesn't spend at all.  Three years ago, I helped a Thai family when their elderly American died in hospital.  The hospital would not even release the body.  Bank accounts could not be accessed.  Called the embassy and was told that it was not the embassy's problem--happened all the time in Thailand.  I had to track down the nearest US relative to get the proper documentation.  Took weeks.  Bottom line: prepare a will and final arrangements; if not for yourself, at least for those around you.

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7 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

I think you are assuming that the requirement for an Embassy letter is a statutory requirement. I don't think it is, as it is not mentioned on the Thai Immigration website.

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

 

Exactly! I've been trying to get that point across ever since this news broke. If the Embassy's statement is correct, that Thai bank statements can be used to prove capital or income, then this a 'storm in a teacup'. See:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

 

In August, next year, I should applying for a marriage extension I shall be presenting immigration with evidence of bank deposits of a monthly income exceeding 40k THB and I will have letters from 3 pension providers in support.

 

If my application is refused I shall invite the I/O to explain to my wife why her husband can no longer stay with her and must leave country. That, of course, is totally hypothetical and I do not believe for one moment that such a situation will ever arise.

 

If one's previous embassy letters have been based on genuine information, which can be proved, then I do not think there is anything to worry about.

 

As for those who's claims were, shall we say, dubious. Well, you know Thai Immigration's adage:

 

''Good guys in, bad guys out''.

 

Have a good weekend everyone.

 

ML

 

 

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3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

s I said before, the Thai bank account is an easier option than the embassy requesting notarised documents.

Easier for some people- harder for others. The Immigration act of 1979 and the current Police Order indicates the amounts per month are 65K/40K  respectively for Retirement and Marriage.  This option was developed as some people have income streams from various entitites- Pension; Interest; business abroad; rental income etc. They have these funds deposited in their  home country accounts.  This is the 21st Century- every piece of income that is legal is traceable by some sort of documentation.  In addition, most people have to report their yearly income on their tax forms.

 

As I have said- nothing is 100% and that is why most everyone asks for at least a notarization sworn by Oath. I have had to get  them for IRS matters; Child Support; Mortgages; Social Security etc .This establishes a legality for prosecution if fraud occurs. After that- the entity that asks for the notarized document  can ask for proof of the income. Frankly speaking- it is not the job of any Embassy to go through document after document verifying amounts etc. That is the job of the Imm Dept.  

 

IMHO- the current Income Letter system will work- as long as the person has to appear - take an Oath that the info is true subject to perjury.  Thai Imm has to understand that they can ask for added info which should match  the sworn Embassy affidavit. If it doesn't - Thai Imm can decline the extension and further investigate and possibly arrest the applicant for lying to a Police Officer

 

The solution is quite simple- issue the letter- up to Thai Imm if they want added info

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7 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

 You should be able to provide the proof directly to Thai immigration, just like the Bank deposit Statement.

Exactly, and that is the way it is likely to end up. Your previous comment is a non starter.

 

"you should be able to PRESENT INCOME DOCUMENTATION DIRECTLY TO IMMIGRATION"

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21 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

My thoughts are that the Embassies should provide them, but only to those who can provide actual proof of their income.  I can't speak for any Brits, but I know a couple of Americans who get the Income Verification from the U.S. Consulate here in Chiang Mai, who do not meet the financial requirements. And this is what Immigration wants to eliminate. If you're legal, no problem.  If you're not, your out of here, as it should be. 

 

This is an old canard!  I am sure that their are just as many citizens from every country that take advantage.   Anecdotes like this do not prove anything.  The American certificate is nothing more than a notarized statement of solvency.  I have the documentation from my private retirement and Social Security  that more than satisfies the Thai government.  However, leaving the determination of adequate funds to the Thai Immigration service would be a disservice to all.  They do not speak English nor do they recognize anything that is not notarized as being official.  The additional time-consuming nonsense that will be required would be enough to push me to Panama!

 

Please don't get mad, it is just my opinion!????

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12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Easier for some people- harder for others. The Immigration act of 1979 and the current Police Order indicates the amounts per month are 65K/40K  respectively for Retirement and Marriage.  This option was developed as some people have income streams from various entitites- Pension; Interest; business abroad; rental income etc. They have these funds deposited in their  home country accounts.  This is the 21st Century- every piece of income that is legal is traceable by some sort of documentation.  In addition, most people have to report their yearly income on their tax forms.

 

As I have said- nothing is 100% and that is why most everyone asks for at least a notarization sworn by Oath. I have had to get  them for IRS matters; Child Support; Mortgages; Social Security etc .This establishes a legality for prosecution if fraud occurs. After that- the entity that asks for the notarized document  can ask for proof of the income. Frankly speaking- it is not the job of any Embassy to go through document after document verifying amounts etc. That is the job of the Imm Dept.  

 

IMHO- the current Income Letter system will work- as long as the person has to appear - take an Oath that the info is true subject to perjury.  Thai Imm has to understand that they can ask for added info which should match  the sworn Embassy affidavit. If it doesn't - Thai Imm can decline the extension and further investigate and possibly arrest the applicant for lying to a Police Officer

 

The solution is quite simple- issue the letter- up to Thai Imm if they want added info

"some people have income streams from various entitites- Pension; Interest; business abroad; rental income etc. They have these funds deposited in their  home country accounts. "

Quite, and up till shortly immigration have relied on the UK embassy to consolidate that income into a monthly amount. Immigration may now ask applicants to consolidate that income in the form of deposits to a Thai bank account.

 

" Frankly speaking- it is not the job of any Embassy to go through document after document verifying amounts etc. That is the job of the Imm Dept.  "

Wrong, you are foreigner asking for permission to stay in the country, it is certainly not up to you to say what they should do or not do. They will do what they consider necessary to make processing extensions more reliable without increasing the workload.

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10 hours ago, jesimps said:

 

They already do. The letter already states, and I quote "Mr ....... states that he receives pensions of GBP ....... and has shown us statements from .......... stating that he receives pensions totalling GBP ..... per annum".

If that isn't a disclaimer I don't know what is.

This disclaimer statement really means the the information shown here-in could very well be provided from a "cock and bull story" .  Just because it's been a joke in the past it does not mean it will continue to be joke in the future.  For the times they are a changing.

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