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UK govt petitioned to reinstate proof of income letters for British expats in Thailand


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44 minutes ago, amse said:

Why would your home country government care about you? You left and retired in Thailand, so most of your pension is being spent in Thailand not your home country. This is just another way of the UK officials turning their back on you and giving you zero support from the UK embassy here. 

I have experience just how unsupportive the US embassy is here, as they wanted to throw me out of Thailand early on over a minor infraction in my visa, even though Thai immigration said it was an easy fix, just to get a document paper from the US embassy, fill it out and have the problem fixed, which the US embassy tried to say I stole a copy of the document a high Thai officer gave me, to show to get one from US embassy. It cost me $30 in all and the US embassy dudes wouldn't apologize for being dead wrong.  

I think that in some ways the UK government does care about me - I still pay tax there and when I eventually receive my UK pension that also will be taxed, but I am not entitled to any health care etc when I visit.  

Good innit?????

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" I still believe thst soon to get the UK pension you will have to live in the UK. Its comming."

 

An aussie friend who had been living in BKK for 15 years had to have been resident in oz for 2 years before he could apply if he intended to return to Thailand once granted. He went back...no where to live, no family there and knew no-one. 

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2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And apparently, based on the above OP, they're not responding to ThaiVisa either.

 

Good job ACS!!!!

I would suggest that their responses boil down to- We are studying the issue and  hoping the longer they study it- the better chance it will become a non issue. Making no decision is what the Thais would normally do rather than generate a potential confrontation

 

Actually, I would rather have them say this than making a  negative decision like the BE.  To me- it is simply diplomatic talk -  As I have said all along- the best decision is to continue to issue the letters- make the applicants swear an Oath- place the disclaimer on the document- now up to Thai Immigration to decide how to proceed.

I

 

Bottom Line- Issue the letters- ball in Thai Imm court.

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" I still believe thst soon to get the UK pension you will have to live in the UK. Its comming."

 

An aussie friend who had been living in BKK for 15 years had to have been resident in oz for 2 years before he could apply if he intended to return to Thailand once granted. He went back...no where to live, no family there and knew no-one. 

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44 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

You have to show documents showing you get £xxx pounds from  a, £xxxx from b , £xxx from c etc.  It may be fraud, but anyone can produce a document from an alleged fictitious company stating you receive such and such pension. The Embassy CANNOT check the authenticity of such information.  Therefore they are stopping the letters.

Exactly, the only alternative would be notarised bank statements and that would have caused a bigger uproar.

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Why can't the British Embassy take a leaf out of the Thai Governments book?

 

The government has announced a U-turn on plans announced this week to order cat and dog owners to register their pets.

 

They have decided it would be too much of a "burden".

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1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

 

I have made this point before, but I'll point it out again. This is what the embassy said in their follow up statement that they were withdrawing this service:

 

'British Nationals should show evidence of minimum funds for their visa type by showing a Thai bank statement and/or bank book. This is not a new requirement and has always been an option for foreigners renewing retirement and marriage visas in Thailand".

 

Do you have an explanation for that comment? I do keep in mind that we're talking about income, not capital lump sum.

yeah, and a letter from the embassy

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15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I would suggest that their responses boil down to- We are studying the issue and  hoping the longer they study it- the better chance it will become a non issue. Making no decision is what the Thais would normally do rather than generate a potential confrontation

 

 

You're missing the point.

 

Assuming the other member here's posts were correct, ACS has sent out two entirely different messages/comments on this issue -- one saying they're reviewing the issue but no changes are planned, the other saying only the matter is under review.

 

There's no good explanation for that kind of discrepancy and conflict in answers to the public, issued by the same Embassy office on the same day, to boot.

 

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7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Exactly, the only alternative would be notarised bank statements and that would have caused a bigger uproar.

Sorry- a Notarization stamp can be forged- bank statements forged and on and on.

At some point- there has to be a preponderance of evidence that makes the odds of forgery minimal

A.  Income declared- attested to under Oath

B.  Letters from  Pension; Government letters;  Company Letters

C.  Bank Summary for 3 months showing amounts in- where from- amounts out

D.   Bank Debit Cards showing account info- debit card numbers- codes on reverse

E.   ATM Slips.

 

Could some be forged- probably.  Could all be forged- not practical. Don't know anyone that forge ATM Debit Cards or that they would go to that extent simply to stay in Thailand

 

The job of an Immigration Officer is to make decisions of what info is needed to establish veracity. If they suspect fraud- they can issue an extension and send the case to a Special Investigation Team who then looks at the total record; visits the home; communicates directly with other agencies.  If it's a fraud- they will eventually be caught.

 

It is not the job of any Embassy to do all that and every Embassy in Thailand has already said that- through the disclaimer that is placed on the  Embassy Letter.

 

Simply issue the income letter as is- let the Immigration Office then decide  who to ask for added info.  If the IO  suspects certain Nationalities are more prone to potential fraud- ask everyone to provide backup info- Others use spot checks- every 50 applicants- ask 2 at random for added info.  There is no 100% foolproof system.

 

 

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3 hours ago, bluemoonpattaya said:

£18,000 in a Thai bank account, would be 750,000 baht.  with an exchange rate of 42 baht to the £....!  

They have changed the limit, or this is a very old piece of advice. 

Think it was a bug in someone eye impairing sight.....

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11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There's no good explanation for that kind of discrepancy and conflict in answers to the public, issued by the same Embassy office on the same day, to boot.

Two different people giving an answer that is similar.  One simply says no change in the foreseeable future. The other says the issue is being studied. The foreseeable future could be weeks from now or never and an issue can be studied for decades with no resolution. Diplomatic gobbledygook-   

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Why all this ???   why immigration not accept your bank statement showing your income sent by direct debit, shows date of statement . Mine is posted every month from the UK to Thailand......Why is not this proof of income..  To me the Embassy need not do this work, and the cost to me for B.Embassy 50+ pound---it is all a farce.

 

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2 hours ago, Luckysilk said:

Absolutely correct and my understanding is the UK state pension is not enough (currently circa 30,000 THB per month) to cover either the 40/65k month requirement set by Thai Immigration.

 

I have a feeling it's the guys under state retirement age ie. 50 something who don't have access to a state funded pension that have caused Thai Immigration to really question how they are being funded and when Thai Immigration asked the Embassy to be their police force the Brits said go to hell.

 

Why should any Embassy get into this mess of verifying documents from multiple sources that could be fraudulent. 

 

 

 

The British Embassy are vastly overcharging for verifying documents, 56 GBP as it stands now. You would think they would be happy with that money for only a few mins work.

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1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

The British Embassy are vastly overcharging for verifying documents, 56 GBP as it stands now. You would think they would be happy with that money for only a few mins work.

They probably are, but Immigration will not accept unsubstantiated documents, and the Embassy cannot prove that the information supplied is totally correct.

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43 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Has the U.S. Embassy gone into hiding on this topic?

 

Yesterday, member IssanJohn posted receiving 3 successive emails, all yesterday, from U.S. Citizens Services saying they had no changes planned re the income letters.

 

In the same day yesterday, separately, I received two different emails from the same ACS office that only said the income letters process was under review, and NOT making any comment or promise about no planned changes.

 

About this time yesterday, I sent ACS a third email asking them to reconcile the difference between the version they were emailing IssanJohn and the different version they were emailing me.  Now 24 hours later, no further response from ACS to my inquiry.

 

And apparently, based on the above OP, they're not responding to ThaiVisa either.

 

Good job ACS!!!!

 

PS - I also sent a couple tweets to the US Embassy BKK's official Twitter account over the past two days on the same subject, and no responses via Twitter either.  Same for a separate email sent to their Press Office's email address.

 

 

 

I don’t think the US Embassy are hiding. They probably have been inundated with requests on this topic since it hit the news of BE

from US Citizens.

 

It’s forced them to look at their policy and discuss with immigration making sure US (ACS) current notary policy is’nt 

going to be a short term problem. If it will be a problem then 

they’ll need to get message to US Expats. 

 

Before the the storm hit you could probably get 5 different answers

Of some version “as steady as we go” from 5 different people at ACS because they’d not been any plans in the works. Now it’s viral.

 

If not inundated with questions regarding change it would 

be business as usual until if/when Thai authorities came requesting

change. 

 

Now its pushed to the front. With all the attention this has brought 

either BE reverts back if not Thai policy might be changed and all countries dragged in the fire and all Embassies stop issuing income letters.......

 

Lets hope for the best.

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5 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

I don’t think the US Embassy are hiding. They probably have been inundated with requests on this topic since it hit the news of BE from US Citizens.

 

 

It's not like you can pick up the phone and call them. You can't. Only for emergencies.

 

It's not like you can just walk in and ask them. You can't. Only via appointment.

 

And I haven't seen any other U.S. citizen members here posting any responses from ACS, other than the emailed ones IssanJohn and I have received.

 

Press Office hasn't issued any comment. And nothing on their Facebook or Twitter pages...

 

If that's not hiding, I'm not sure what you'd call it.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

They probably are, but Immigration will not accept unsubstantiated documents, and the Embassy cannot prove that the information supplied is totally correct.

Yes I agree with you, but in any system, in any country, you are never going to get a system where everyone can be sure there is no dishonesty. Look at the British MPs, how many of them are honest? Their expenses claims, and jobs on the side while still drawing their full MPs salary etc, etc, etc.

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14 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

They probably are, but Immigration will not accept unsubstantiated documents, and the Embassy cannot prove that the information supplied is totally correct.

Isn't a Bank Statement plus the air mail envelope enough proof of direct debit paid in with pension codes enough  ??   it is a better proof of income together with your yearly verification sent to Thailand from the pension department--to me it just a racket---a farce. 

To top it all the pension department sent me out to Thailand from the UK wanting a VIP Thai person to fill in a form to verify I AM ALIVE proof  ha ha     if not within a time set they will stop my pension.  Adding insult to injury the froze my pension 13 years ago because I not normally reside in the UK, but a friend living in the Philip., his pension is not frozen........political sickness all of it.

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5 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

My thoughts are that the Embassies should provide them, but only to those who can provide actual proof of their income.  I can't speak for any Brits, but I know a couple of Americans who get the Income Verification from the U.S. Consulate here in Chiang Mai, who do not meet the financial requirements. And this is what Immigration wants to eliminate. If you're legal, no problem.  If you're not, your out of here, as it should be. 

 

Sorry to have to repeat what has already been stated on here many times, but Brits do have to provide proof of their income by means of Bank Statements etc. The Americans (As far as I know)  merely put their hands on their hearts, say "Honestly", sign a bit of paper and get their Income Verification, which at the moment is accepted by Thai Immigration. It would appear that Immigration are going after the smaller fish first to test the waters!

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5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is about time that you Brits got off your ass and did something; your outrage has been palpable but your actions nil.

 

I would also organize an direct e-mail to your respective members of Parliament; it isn't hard to find their addresses in these modern days. I know for a fact that every letter sent to an MP is logged and (usually) responded to; your taxes pay for them, give them a kick!

 

If you are not happy, and there are several thousand of you (?), then a campaign via the Web is useful and doable. Put up or shut up.

 

Give' em hell, Brits

 

I think you will find that quite a number of people have already done just that, but they are not going to come on TV to specifically let you know what they have done!

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I don’t understand I called the British Embassy today even though I’m an American citizen because none of us can seem to get a straight answer from the United States Embassy just mixed up information and incomplete information via email.  When I spoke to my friend at the embassy she informed me that the United States Embassy has no plans to stop providing the proof of income affidavits at anytime in the foreseeable future.  Anyway any other time I call no one will answer the damn phone except for an emergency you literally can’t get in touch with a Consular Official unless it’s an emergency.  The only consular official I’ve spoke to was a friend I’ve known for years before I retired and that was the other day and now she’s on leave for 3 weeks.  

 

At least the British Embassy ACTUAL CONSULAR OFFICIALS WILL ANSWER THE DAMN PHONE which is more than I can say about the United States Embassy!!!  Although at least the United States Embassy so far has no plans to stop providing this service from what I’ve gathered so far however I’ve also seen other information that looked ominous.  

 

Here’s the interesting thing is today when I called the British Embassy according to a Consular employee the Thai government is supposedly going to stop accepting the Proof of income affidavits effective January 1st 2019.  That came from a British Embassy Official and honestly I don’t know if that only effects British Citizens or all of us but according to my local immigration office supervisor he told me that isn’t true at all so I don’t know who to believe anymore now we’re getting misinformation EVEN FROM RELIABLE SOURCES SUCH AS GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!!!!!

 

My point is this if the British Embassy is claiming that the Thai government isn’t going to be accepting the proof of income affidavits as of January 1st 2019 then what’s the point of petitioning the British Embassy to continue issuing them??  If Thai immigration really isn’t going to be accepting them anymore in January from British citizens or anyone else than what’s the point if they are no longer going to be valid at immigration in January???

 

Then again the British Embassy appears to have been making a lot of false official statements lately such as just for one example saying that the United States Embassy is gonna stop providing them as well and now the British Embassy appears to be back tracking a little bit off of that statement.  So I don’t know who to believe exactly.  If the British Embassy is right then they are definitely better than our embassy but I don’t know there’s been to much different information from actual government officials which is ridiculous and unacceptable.  I understand all the misinformation on this website but our government officials British, American, and Thai immigration are supposed to be the reliable sources of information and right now none of them are on the same page.  I understand that they are different governments but they’re Diplomats and it’s their job to communicate with each other and especially the host nation government.  It’s also their job to actually be diplomatic.  I retired from the military and government service and I actually cared about my job and worked very hard.  But I have seen how lazy most government employees really are and how they act stupid and sensitive if you say one little thing that upsets them.  So I’d like to teach our government employees the art of giving a Sh:!.  

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3 hours ago, Luckysilk said:

And how would you feel if in your home country anyone could simply get on a plane and land in your country and live happily ever after spending a mere 65k a month or better yet 800k in a bank account ?

Do I have to buy them a house, educate their kids, pay their insurance, and feed them?  This is a trick question, right?

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2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Do I have to buy them a house, educate their kids, pay their insurance, and feed them?  This is a trick question, right?

And people do not have to land on a plane and have money--they cross the open borders, the apply for benefit and housing, even illegal immigrants.  (UK)

 

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9 minutes ago, killala said:

If anyone here in this forum actually believes that any petition shall bear fruit then I’m afraid that you would be living in cloud cuckoo land.

I sure you are correct, but anything is better than sitting on backsides and twiddling thumbs, full kudos to the people that are being pro-active. If you don't try, you don't get.

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2 hours ago, jesimps said:

I am still a citizen of the UK and pay full UK income tax, therefore expect a decent consular service in return.

Imagine all the UK state pensioners leaving Thailand to stay in the UK, it is not just the state pensions they will need to pay out, there are all the other benefits they can claim over and above. UK pensioners all arriving back in the UK?? that is the last thing the UK government will want.

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1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

Imagine all the UK state pensioners leaving Thailand to stay in the UK, it is not just the state pensions they will need to pay out, there are all the other benefits they can claim over and above. UK pensioners all arriving back in the UK?? that is the last thing the UK government will want.

No one has yet said how many there are that use the income method?

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