Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[digger70]

3 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

Digger70 what are you on 40,000 per month or 65,000 per month because that’s a hell of a difference and the same is either 400,000 or 800,000 I guarantee that my wife who is a farang like myself spends less than most Thai woman yet we have to show either 65,000 per month or 800,000 nobody in 13 years of living here has ever been able to explain why such a big difference even the immigration officer who I got to know on a friendly basis can only shrug his shoulders . I am fortunate that I have the income but there are many who scrape the barrel especially now due to very poor exchange rates 13 years ago,it was 74 baht to the £ today you are extremely lucky to get 42 to the £ ☹️

Didn't you read my post ,for me it's to much trouble to travel 1000 klm one way to get 2 letters from 2 different embassies from 2 countries  and have to pay for that twice, I just wont use that  I use the THB 800000

[Formaleins]

This might have been the case, as in 14 years ago! I recall that immigration would accept statements that showed holdings of shares in the UK, but this was back in the day when applying for an extension based on marriage, Thai immigration INSISTED that you had to have a joint account with your Thai wife, and at that time, they would also consider her income as part of the deal. This all changed a long time ago.

[Lovethailandelite]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, and there should be an even bigger stink about the ill formed suggestion of the Brits based on misreading Thai immigration rules. They are proposing for income applications FULL IMPORT of the income, done monthly. Never required before for any of the options! Bank, income, or combo. I have to assume they just don't understand the implications of what they're pushing. 

 

It's not the Thais pushing for this massively negative change. It's the Brits. 

They are not misreading anything.

 

In the case of retirement:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (2) Must be 50 years of age or over. (3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or (5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date. (6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria: (a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000. (b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form 2. Copy of applicant’s passport 3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or 4. Account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook 5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4 stated above. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[wvavin]

Thailand wishes to ensure these people have enough money to spend and not to steal bed mattress or money!

[crazykopite]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

Didn't you read my post ,for me it's to much trouble to travel 1000 klm one way to get 2 letters from 2 different embassies from 2 countries  and have to pay for that twice, I just wont use that  I use the THB 800000

No I just caught part of it , but why do you have to travel 1,000 Ks I last used a BE letter 3 years ago and I completed it on line printed it off and with all my pension docs and postal order put it in the post the turn around was around 7 days is that not the case anymore like you I use the 800k then once my new extension has been given the green light I then live off it for the remainder of the year but as I said not everyone is in the same position as you and I ????

[Humpy]

The British Embassy have been charging 2600 Baht or whatever to say that they have only seen your income statements.... not that they have confirmed that those statements (which can be easily falsified ) are true .  Well done the British Embassy for stopping this silly expensive letter which does not prove your income is honest and true......

 

 I got a letter from my bank stating that I had the required 800,000 + in my account. The letter was dated 11th of the month. (cost 100 Baht )

I applied for my retirement visa the next day and the Immigration Office rejected the letter because it was not dated the 12th  !  I showed them my bankbook which proved the amount. They said the rules changed a month ago. So I went to the bank again and got an identical letter dated 12th which was accepted.  Time for Immigration to start updating their changes by giving Thaivisa.com a heads up !

 A swipe of my Passport gives every detail that Immigration require. So how simple it would be to print out those same details on a form for me to sign instead of scribbling through a poorly designed one. 

Now I feel better !

[Jingthing]

They are not misreading anything.

 

In the case of retirement:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (2) Must be 50 years of age or over. (3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or (5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date. (6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria: (a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000. (b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form 2. Copy of applicant’s passport 3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or 4. Account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook 5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4 stated above. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

See anything about import requirements there? I thought not.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Since when does one government tell another government what they have to do.  They might ASK them to do it but the UK is a sovereign country and they have chosen to 'throw out the baby with the bath water'.  They are using this request as an excuse to stop providing this letter for their citizens as they can save money by not doing it. It's quite clear from the interview.

 

As an American what I resent is the BE attempting to say that Americans are also affected.  Really-  The Us Embassy may have been  asked the same  of the Thai Imm but the US has responded to its citizens by stating the letter will continue for the foreseeable future while the issue is being studied.

 

The BE Embassy is also attempting to tell the Thai Imm what they should accept from  applicants which is very narrow and shows a complete lack of understanding the Thai Imm Act of 1979 and the Police Order of 2014.  They should be asking the Thai Imm office to accept a verity of documentation  to prove monthly income rather than trying to force Thai Imm to have people transfer funds to a Thai bank account on a monthly basis.  The Thai police order even now doesn't say that  with or without an Embassy letter.

 

If as British subjects- you agree with your Embassies actions- that is of course your prerogative. I and other Nationalities as well as some British  citizens  have differing viewpoints.

 

Where did you get that Quote?  That's not mine.  I vaguely remember reading it because of the "MUST" verbiage, but it's not my comment. 

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

  2 hours ago, 55Jay said:

The Thai government has said that the BE must verify that the income the applicant is claiming is actually true. The BE MUST verify it.

This is impossible for the BE to comply with. If the Thai authorities prove that an applicant has lied, yet, they still have the BE letter certifying

 

Other than that, I tend to agree with your comment.  Hopefully somebody in the UK system wades in and gives this a sanity check.

[digger70]

9 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

No I just caught part of it , but why do you have to travel 1,000 Ks I last used a BE letter 3 years ago and I completed it on line printed it off and with all my pension docs and postal order put it in the post the turn around was around 7 days is that not the case anymore like you I use the 800k then once my new extension has been given the green light I then live off it for the remainder of the year but as I said not everyone is in the same position as you and I ????

Because  the AU / Dutch embassies Won't do this online ,,, They will do this Only in person,,

[tingtongtourist]

22 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Cheesus! I bet you were really popular in school. Can see you going to the teacher and dropping all your classmates in it. Is your rear end still smarting from getting your ass kicked so often?

 

This isn't about sexpats and paedos, it's about people, most of whom are here legally and have families here, not being able to afford to leave 800,000 baht laying in a bank, finding themselves between a rock and a hard place. Thai immigrations are stating that the embassy letter is mandatory and the BE, at least, refusing to issue one. Until Thai immigration amends the rules, or the BE resumes issuing the letter, people are bound to be concerned. Most of us have been staying here quite legally, providing whatever's asked for, suddenly it's all up in the air. Those of us who've played the game deserve some guidance, not the sort of stupid, smug posts that you've been making lately. By the way, your username is very appropriate.

I never been a snitch and i always says fair play to anyone that can stay Thailand long term using any means.

But some other people have to do a lot more, spend a lot more time and money in travel and doing other things just so they can to stay legal.

 

Not meaning to sound smug at all but explain like in this situation..

 

guys who stayed here (in past) upto 20 years on overtsay.

simply pay 20k at the airport and turn around and come back in. easy to do back then withoht lift a finger to do the right thing!

 

Then others (yes, us who are all tingtong) meanwhile been paying a lot of money, spending time visa runs, go flights back home, doing all to fitting the requirement of the way to be legal.

 

its a bit like the others who are always skirting around Thai laws. 

hear them skite THEY own land company houses and business in Thailand who are the big boss that employs Thais.

 

then when the law bites the สrse they will lash out at others who and say they been scammed!

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

It will come in time. You know how slow things can be here. This will have many channels to go through and I can imagine the paperwork building now in Thai Immigration. Unless they just do the 800/400K route (the easy way) or show 65/40K a month in a bank book, it is pretty easy if you got the money. Until the Police Order changes stating anything drastically different, unless the British Embassy does not do a turn around in some way, I can see no other way it can be done. It will bring a lot more work for the IO doing the job. They will have to search the bank books an I think, that would not make them happy searching through for all the deposits and adding them up!

 

Can you see that happening?

No, but it's possible, they have their trainees. As long as it's only the BE making waves I don't think anything will change but if several other embassies follow suite then maybe the letter will be dropped and the lump sum method and the monthly deposit in the bank book will take its place, it is wait and see, I will get my German letter end of this month and do my extension in November, I will have time to see what happens.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

See anything about import requirements there? I thought not.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

As Jing correctly noted, there's absolutely NOTHING in the current or past police orders re extensions and the monthly income method that require:

--the bringing of those funds into Thailand,

--the depositing of those funds in any Thai bank, or

--the spending of any particular amount per month in Thailand.

 

None of those are requirements anywhere.

 

 

[Peterw42]

Who would have known, use the 65k income method and you are of lesser character, obviously illegal, obviously poor, probably a paedophile, and seen as undesirable by Thailand. You will most likely skip the country owing millions of baht and will probably die alone in a fan only room because you cant afford to eat.

 

Belive it or not, most people have the 800k, (everyone I know), but for whatever reason they choose not to bring it here, and its not because they are poor. Most countries are down 20-30% on the exchange rate with the baht, makes sense to leave money back in home country, at least until a recovery. Most people can put the 800k to work back in home country, stock exchange, dividends, super funds, great reasons to leave it back home. Many may have plans to return to home country in a couple of years, why bring it here only to send it back.

 

I have used both methods over the years, deposit and income, and until reading these threads had no idea of my lesser character and desirability to Thailand during the income method years. I have also consistently spent the same amount of money on either the 800k or the 65k method.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, Humpy said:

 I got a letter from my bank stating that I had the required 800,000 + in my account. The letter was dated 11th of the month. (cost 100 Baht )

I applied for my retirement visa the next day and the Immigration Office rejected the letter because it was not dated the 12th  !  I showed them my bankbook which proved the amount. They said the rules changed a month ago. So I went to the bank again and got an identical letter dated 12th which was accepted. 

 

Gotta love Thai Immigration.

 

Criminals can flow back and forth across the borders and bribe officers to come and go.

 

But try submitting a Thai bank letter dated one day before your Immigration appointment at SOME offices, and see what happens to you...  

 

 

[sambum]

6 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I never been a snitch and i always says fair play to anyone that can stay Thailand long term using any means.

But some other people have to do a lot more, spend a lot more time and money in travel and doing other things just so they can to stay legal.

 

Not meaning to sound smug at all but explain like in this situation..

 

guys who stayed here (in past) upto 20 years on overtsay.

simply pay 20k at the airport and turn around and come back in. easy to do back then withoht lift a finger to do the right thing!

 

Then others (yes, us who are all tingtong) meanwhile been paying a lot of money, spending time visa runs, go flights back home, doing all to fitting the requirement of the way to be legal.

 

its a bit like the others who are always skirting around Thai laws. 

hear them skite THEY own land company houses and business in Thailand who are the big boss that employs Thais.

 

then when the law bites the สrse they will lash out at others who and say they been scammed!

 

 

 

I never been a snitch and i always says fair play to anyone that can stay Thailand long term using any means.

 

Including "illegal"?

 

 

[Mansell]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

No they don't.  They let you lie and say you have the income and you sign it and they sign that you signed it.

They do not let you lie. You have to swear that the income is correct and true. There are penalties for wrong information. So if it is a lie it is you saying it and upon your own head.

That said I went to Khon Khaen and being tired I accidentally added an extra zero to my monthly income.....I didn't notice until on the bus returning to  Korat. The amount was now absurd and maybe not believable, so this entailed a trip to the US Embassy in BKK to get another letter and another 50 dollars. But all is now well.

[Rally123]

4 hours ago, zydeco said:

You constantly volunteered to be the classroom monitor back in primary school, didn't you.

Not me. You must have me mixed up with someone else?   

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, Mazungu said:

The American Embassy maybe going to change it's policy regarding its current income affidavit policies. Below is the email response I received from them on Thursday when I inquired about a possible change to their policy. 

 

 

"Thank you for your email.   The US Embassy’s current income affidavit policies can be found on our website: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/. We are currently evaluating options regarding the future provision of this document."

" we are currently evaluating options ..." Is bureaucratic-speak for " nothing has changed. Please stop sending us emails. No one is going to say something stupid in response to your whining. We leave that to the British embassy who've already stepped in it."

 

i received a nearly  identical response when I wrote to them complaining about stopping regular consular outreach visits to Pattaya months ago including a link to what was posted on their website in their email to me.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Suradit69

[ajnamoon]

mabye all expats whether on retirement  extension or marriage should just by pass the   official Thai immigration offices  and head off to Savannakhet    Thai Consulate  in Laos    and get our extensions  there for 5000 baht   no proof of income no embassy letter required

Whaw sounds like a good package tour business  

[pontious]

3 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

We are currently evaluating options regarding the future provision of this document."

Then why not say no change. No need to evaluate anything.

[galt67]

4 minutes ago, Mansell said:

They do not let you lie. You have to swear that the income is correct and true. There are penalties for wrong information. So if it is a lie it is you saying it and upon your own head.

That said I went to Khon Khaen and being tired I accidentally added an extra zero to my monthly income.....I didn't notice until on the bus returning to  Korat. The amount was now absurd and maybe not believable, so this entailed a trip to the US Embassy in BKK to get another letter and another 50 dollars. But all is now well.

 

They DO let you lie, however.

 

Which is the issue with a significant percentage (50%?) of 'declaration letters and affidavits.'

 

Many commenters, on various TV threads, have stated they 'know' people who annually lie on the documents regarding their finances.

 

Without verification AND legal enforcement, Thai Imm. (in SOME offices) will continue to question them.

 

 

[Peterw42]

Just now, ajnamoon said:

mabye all expats whether on retirement  extension or marriage should just by pass the   official Thai immigration offices  and head off to Savannakhet    Thai Consulate  in Laos    and get our extensions  there for 5000 baht   no proof of income no embassy letter required

Whaw sounds like a good package tour business  

You cannot get yearly extensions outside Thailand, you get 90 day visa's in Lao

[Expattaff1308]

Quote

My hunch is 50% of you Brits don't have the 65k or the 800 or the 400! That's what all the crying is really about

Thats quite an assumption and can easily be used against all nationals but of course as I said its just your assumption, the British Embassy asked for proof before issuing the letters which may prove your assumption somewhat off course

Edited October 13, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[evadgib]

If immigration laid on a shuttle service, free ice creams and granted mandatory PR for anyone that's lived here for more than 5 years a number of serial posters would still get the hump ????

Edited October 13, 2018 by evadgib

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, tingtongtourist said:

digital nomads who are on the grey line working with no permit.

... would be getting income transferred into Thailand - so no problem showing this via bank-statements (if those were to be accepted in the future). 

Those working illegally in Thailand and being paid by Thai sources would have a problem - until they sent the money to an account in another country and brought it back - or sent the same money out and back every month.

 

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

If you are going to spend little more than your average Thai... it does not serve Thailand's interest to have someone come here.

Taking a lowball example - the lowest-possible US social-security payment is about 27K Baht/mo - which is more than triple what many Thais earn.  But, that guys monthly-spend is also foreign-sourced capital spending - imported wealth - not re-cycled Baht - so more helpful to the Thai economy, in some ways, than a person with a legal work-permit making 100K/mo+ earned in Thailand.  

 

As long as one with the 27K/mo can stash another 476K Baht in a Thai bank (approx $15K USD), he qualifies for a retirement extension.  But, in any case, they are a net-benefit to the country. 

[kensisaket]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I am glad your bank allows direct deposits to  Thailand. My  pension providers and there are 4 of them do NOT do foreign  direct deposits  My point being there are many ways to prove income- and the Police Order indicates  using the income method does not need be sent to a Thai bank. You only need to be able to access it and prove the source amount That's what a debit card is for if you want to pay the fees.

 

The BE Embassy can do what they want but their lack of understand of the Thai Imm system and their inability to communicate effectively with the Thai authorities is what has led to this uproar. 

Suggest you look into doing a free cash advance using your foreign bank debit card.  This is not made from an ATM machine.  I use Bangkok Bank. If you go to the customer service counter (not the tellers) there should be a small debit card reader sitting on the corner of one of the desks.  My U.S. bank allows up to $4000 USD at a time.  No fees on either end.  

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Because the others do not do verification letters!  just pay in 65k a month into your Thai account?  

Cobblers... all other embassies provide consular letters to the same effect !!

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

've always done the 800. It's simple, uncomplicated, honest

My extension takes 15 mins

So does mine and I have showed my added  info- pension letters- 2 from US Government/ Govt/ US Bank statement on single page showing each direct deposit and balance as well as Thai ATMs used/ 4 Bank Debit Cards from US/   Retirment extension Stamp issued- see you next year. Never used a Thai bank and don't need to- Thai Police Order dated 2014- read it- understand it.

[mok199]

In my search for a bank in Thailand that even knows the phrase ''direct deposite'' I have found only one B K....mabey if the backward country was up to speed with modern banking this would not be such a Farse

[Cricky]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Correct, here's what you actually said.

"I’m sure it’s only the ones that do not comply, false statements etc that have a concern.

There will always be the lousy miserable moaners and blamers.

These people will never be happy, they are in the wrong and are desperately rocking the boat, making waves.

For those of us that are genuine it looks good, possible to stay with the statement option."

 

so basically, anyone that uses the method you use, presumably by statement you mean 800k in the bank, they are OK. Anybody not doing so is either a cheat or blamer/moaner.

Thankfully your idiocy makes no difference to anything otherwise quite a few, me included would be in your negative category, ready to be kicked out. You always so loose with facts?

Why are you being so hostile?

 

Did you listen to the interview?

She said people with a statement showing 65k per month comply.

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry to all you good people out there but I must comment from the previous forum...........you  jinners get the D1ck H3@d of the month award, well done!!!

 

The problem here is people go off the handle, not reading or listening to facts, too often not reading posts in full then commenting, children do this not adults, grow up. This characteristic is from lack of education.
 
You didn’t listen to the interview and you didn’t read my post in full.
 
Who are you to threaten me?.... “ready to be kicked out. You always so loose with facts”.
Ready to be kicked out, dont threaten me, I was sharing my concerns about Thailand and the imposters that are here, I’ve had enough of people like you and so has Thailand, this is why the officials have chosen to enforce the rules.
Thailand needs good people here not law breakers..
 
It was clear in the interview that people who can show a statement with 65K a month comply, so the people that comply can stay (Yes, there will always be people who will dispute the facts, not listen or beleive what is spoken, every day they disagree that e=mc2, they say that the world is flat so forth. I always believe the professionals.)
 
I speak the truth, if you can’t handle it remove yourself from this site.
 
You’re obviously one of the illegals for your stupid reply.
 
Best you call it a day mate and go back home.
It wasn't clear. We were misled about the current acceptance of income applications without embassy letters. We were offered a slippery weak tea confirmation that the enforcement rule for no letters would actually be changed nationwide. You'd have to be a fool to be satisfied with that.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

yes and we're all fools believing the world is round.

 

what would make you satisfied (yes i know obtaining PR...not going to happen), you are here as a visitor, what was spoken is what we have to go by.

dont compound the negatives, too many children here for you to influence.