Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[Joe Mcseismic]

Thai immigration thinks that all letters from all embassy's verify income. None of the letters do.

Will they ever wake up to this fact?

[HHTel]

7 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Thai immigration thinks that all letters from all embassy's verify income. None of the letters do.

Will they ever wake up to this fact?

They have woken up.  That's what all the fuss is about.  TI want embassies to verify income which has never been done to date.

[HHTel]

After 100,000 signatures:

 

Quote

While many petitions have been debated in parliament it is difficult to find many that have directly led to changes in legislation.

And we're talking of a petition that affects a small number of people.  According to BE that is 3,000 though I'm struggling to believe that number.

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 minutes ago, HHTel said:

They have woken up.  That's what all the fuss is about.  TI want embassies to verify income which has never been done to date.

No, they haven't woken up. They still accept letters from all embassies. If they did wake up, they wouldn't accept them, now would they?

[ukrules]

36 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

No, they haven't woken up. They still accept letters from all embassies. If they did wake up, they wouldn't accept them, now would they?

They're still issuing the letters, they're still accepting them. Any change won't happen until January 2019

 

Nothing has changed at all right now but it might.

 

That is of course unless there is some backtracking.....when it comes to Thailand there's nearly always some backtracking....

[luckyluke]

In Pattaya, at the Austrian Consulate,

 

Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers have to prove a monthly minimum income of the equivalent of 65000 ThB ( usually a document from an Office of Pensions ). 

 

In my particular case, I have a document from my Office of Pensions going back to one year, every monthly amount paid has a date and a code.

 

I have than also a document from my bank in Belgium stating the monthly incomes with the code and name of the principal ( O.o.Pensions )and the date.

 

So in fact rather simple to check.

 

The Austrian Consulate issue and sign then an "Income Letter".

 

So this is not an Affidavit, 

 

in other words :

 

not a confirmation of the identity of a person declaring something, yes or no,  under oath.

 

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Thai immigration thinks that all letters from all embassy's verify income

 

[davehowden]

38 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

In Pattaya, at the Austrian Consulate,

 

Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers have to prove a monthly minimum income of the equivalent of 65000 ThB ( usually a document from an Office of Pensions ). 

 

In my particular case, I have a document from my Office of Pensions going back to one year, every monthly amount paid has a date and a code.

 

I have than also a document from my bank in Belgium stating the monthly incomes with the code and name of the principal ( O.o.Pensions )and the date.

 

So in fact rather simple to check. 

 

The Austrian Consulate issue and sign then an "Income Letter".

 

So this is not an Affidavit, 

 

in other words :

 

not a confirmation of the identity of a person declaring something, yes or no,  under oath.

 

 

" So in fact rather simple to check. "

 

Yes, but DO they check, do you know ?

 

Brits have to supply  documents but the BE do not check them, hence the apparent problem.

Edited October 22, 2018 by davehowden
Spelling correction.

[luckyluke]

17 minutes ago, davehowden said:

but DO they check, do you know ?

One has to go in person at the Austrian Consulate, they check the data on the different documents, but not if the documents are genuine. 

 

So, eventually, false Office of Pensions, and false bank, documents, may be accepted.

For us Belgians, no need to forge documents, we can go to the Belgian Embassy, we there state how much monthly income we have, no proof needed, and the embassy issue an Affidavit.

 

The Affidavit of the Belgian E. or the Letter of Income of the Austrian C. are both accepted by Immigration Jomtien ( so far ).

 

[Curmudgeon1]

Why doesn't immigration adjust their criteria of 800k/yr to 200k/3mnths frozen authenticated every 90days during reporting requirement?

How would one communicate this to thai immigration?

[Esso49]

3 minutes ago, Curmudgeon1 said:

Why doesn't immigration adjust their criteria of 800k/yr to 200k/3mnths frozen authenticated every 90days during reporting requirement?

How would one communicate this to thai immigration?

what is the point of that ? . The threads is about removal of certification of income letters, not deposits in a Thai bank

[yang123]

In the meantime:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/foreign-commonwealth-office/about/complaints-procedure#making-a-complaint-about-a-consular-service

[yang123]

Good (188 sigs), but a complaint direct to FCO Consular Department is likely to receive a more immediate response and reach the operational parts with supervisory power over Bangkok Consular Section.

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, yang123 said:

Good (188 sigs), but a complaint direct to FCO Consular Department is likely to receive a more immediate response and reach the operational parts with supervisory power over Bangkok Consular Section.

Haven't had a response yet, well only an automated reply

[HHTel]

The complaints route is a far better option than a petition.

You are guaranteed a response from an independent body plus if not happy there are procedures to escalate your complaint.  188 complaints would be a better use of people's time.

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, yang123 said:

In the meantime:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/foreign-commonwealth-office/about/complaints-procedure#making-a-complaint-about-a-consular-service

Thanks for the link - bookmarked for future reference depending on whatever replies I receive to my emails to the Embassy and FCO.

 

I somehow doubt that the FCO are bestowed with an abundance of compliments about their consular services from expats living in Thailand, though!

[sambum]

5 hours ago, yang123 said:

In the meantime:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/foreign-commonwealth-office/about/complaints-procedure#making-a-complaint-about-a-consular-service

Thank you - you may have seen it already but an excerpt from a speech by the British Ambassador to Thailand H.E.Brian Davidson in 2017:-

 

"I have  outlined my top three priorities in Thailand, which are about promoting a free and open society; building stronger  partnerships for mutual prosperity; and providing top-notch consular and embassy services to all who avail of them.”   I wonder what many British ex pats think of that statement at the moment?

[Esso49]

7 minutes ago, sambum said:

Thank you - you may have seen it already but an excerpt from a speech by the British Ambassador to Thailand H.E.Brian Davidson in 2017:-

 

"I have  outlined my top three priorities in Thailand, which are about promoting a free and open society; building stronger  partnerships for mutual prosperity; and providing top-notch consular and embassy services to all who avail of them.”   I wonder what many British ex pats think of that statement at the moment?

Exactly the same now as they thought at the time  he said it -  BS

[sambum]

5 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Exactly the same now as they thought at the time  he said it -  BS

I wonder if the " top-notch consular and embassy services "

includes answering emails? I've sent 2 over a week ago and not had a reply yet!

 

 

[Esso49]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

I wonder if the " top-notch consular and embassy services "

includes answering emails? I've sent 2 over a week ago and not had a reply yet!

 

 

I think his speech last year was written by one of the Thai Embassy officials that they seem to employ, rather than British staff. As a result when it was translated from Thai into English for the Ambassador it was wrongly translated, as it should have read "Bottom-rung consular services for all those who annoy us by asking"

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

Thank you - you may have seen it already but an excerpt from a speech by the British Ambassador to Thailand H.E.Brian Davidson in 2017:-

 

"I have  outlined my top three priorities in Thailand, which are about promoting a free and open society; building stronger  partnerships for mutual prosperity; and providing top-notch consular and embassy services to all who avail of them.”   I wonder what many British ex pats think of that statement at the moment?

I didn't believe it when he said it in the first place and nothing has changed my opinion so far.

[sambum]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

I didn't believe it when he said it in the first place and nothing has changed my opinion so far.

If they were his top 3 priorities, I wonder what's happening to the rest? 

[bigginhill]

11 hours ago, luckyluke said:

In Pattaya, at the Austrian Consulate,

 

Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers have to prove a monthly minimum income of the equivalent of 65000 ThB ( usually a document from an Office of Pensions ). 

 

In my particular case, I have a document from my Office of Pensions going back to one year, every monthly amount paid has a date and a code.

 

I have than also a document from my bank in Belgium stating the monthly incomes with the code and name of the principal ( O.o.Pensions )and the date.

 

So in fact rather simple to check.

 

The Austrian Consulate issue and sign then an "Income Letter".

 

So this is not an Affidavit, 

 

in other words :

 

not a confirmation of the identity of a person declaring something, yes or no,  under oath.

 

 

So we have ;

USA stat decs

Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers  income letters

Italy accepts state pension certificate (maybe tax return where all incomes are listed) 

Can anyone add anything? would help when complaining to compare the services and solutions of all other Embassies.

 

[luckyluke]

5 hours ago, bigginhill said:

Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers  income letters

For those living in Pattaya. 

[DavoTheGun]

On 10/21/2018 at 1:13 PM, Jingthing said:

The Australian embassy has been and is still issuing the required income documents that are REQUIRED by Thai immigration for income based applications. Thai immigration may demand additional evidence of the income claimed in such embassy documents, but usually doesn't. 

Is It required to actually go to the Embassy or can do by mail, what does the Embassy require, it clearly states on their website, that they do not provide letters, so am confused.

[OJAS]

15 hours ago, sambum said:

 I've sent 2 over a week ago and not had a reply yet!

Same here.

[soalbundy]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:14 PM, SheungWan said:

Unfortunately for some people here 'positive' is just conflated with agreeing with them and life always has to have a happy ending.

I've just returned from the German embassy with my income letter. I tried to get some more info from the attache but the room was rather full this time and she wanted to get on with her work ( the man that I usually dealt with had changed stations but as my past info was in the computer there was no problem) so I could only manage a couple of questions :-

 

''Will brexit have any negative affects on me continuing to receive the income letter''

''No''

''The British embassy will stop issuing income letters and....''

''Yes, we have heard about that, it must be very worrying for people relying on the letter''

''Will the Germans also stop''?

''We have had no instructions to stop now or in the future''

 

The exact wording of the letter is as follows

 

                     Certificate    (underlined)

for the Royal Thai Immigration and Revenue Authorities

This is to certify from the documentation seen at this embassy that the British citizen

 

PERSONAL INFO

 

is receiving monthly annuity payments from Germany totaling

amount in Euros

amount in Baht

the amount in Baht, subject to FX fluctuations, at the current rate of exchange.

 

signed by the attache, Embassy stamp

 

The interview ended with her giving me a friendly informal goodbye, 'Tschuess' (no English equivalent) which I found rather nice. 

 

No caveat. It seems to me that with the wording of the BE letter and the caveat they have gone out of their way to show TI that they aren't to sure about their own verification ie. you want an embassy letter, here it is but we don't know if its factual, maybe we should stop.

 

[Thaidream]

19 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

o caveat. It seems to me that with the wording of the BE letter and the caveat they have gone out of their way to show TI that they aren't to sure about their own verification ie. you want an embassy letter, here it is but we don't know if its factual, maybe we should stop

Good report- If as the BE says there was a seminar in May of this year- I would assume the German Embassy sent a rep and heard what the BE heard- yet- there appears no concern from the Germans- which makes me believe the BE is stopping their letter for reasons that are more than Thai Imm asking for versification and they cannot comply

[davehowden]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

I've just returned from the German embassy with my income letter. I tried to get some more info from the attache but the room was rather full this time and she wanted to get on with her work ( the man that I usually dealt with had changed stations but as my past info was in the computer there was no problem) so I could only manage a couple of questions :-

 

''Will brexit have any negative affects on me continuing to receive the income letter''

''No''

''The British embassy will stop issuing income letters and....''

''Yes, we have heard about that, it must be very worrying for people relying on the letter''

''Will the Germans also stop''?

''We have had no instructions to stop now or in the future''

 

The exact wording of the letter is as follows

 

                     Certificate    (underlined)

for the Royal Thai Immigration and Revenue Authorities

This is to certify from the documentation seen at this embassy that the British citizen

 

PERSONAL INFO

 

is receiving monthly annuity payments from Germany totaling

amount in Euros

amount in Baht

the amount in Baht, subject to FX fluctuations, at the current rate of exchange.

 

signed by the attache, Embassy stamp

 

The interview ended with her giving me a friendly informal goodbye, 'Tschuess' (no English equivalent) which I found rather nice. 

 

No caveat. It seems to me that with the wording of the BE letter and the caveat they have gone out of their way to show TI that they aren't to sure about their own verification ie. you want an embassy letter, here it is but we don't know if its factual, maybe we should stop.

 

Interesting.

So based on documents you provided, and I assume without the embassy checking their authenticity (for instance by going on-line and interrogating the actual data from the stated source whilst you were present) the German Embassy is saying

"

that the British citizen

 

PERSONAL INFO

 

is receiving monthly annuity payments from Germany totaling

amount in Euros

amount in Baht"

 

Not "has stated they are receiving" but "is receiving"

Edited October 23, 2018 by davehowden
Spelling

[soalbundy]

18 minutes ago, davehowden said:

Interesting.

So based on documents you provided, and I assume without the embassy checking their authenticity (for instance by going on-line and interrogating the actual data from the stated source whilst you were present) the German Embassy is saying

"

that the British citizen

 

PERSONAL INFO

 

is receiving monthly annuity payments from Germany totaling

amount in Euros

amount in Baht"

 

Not "has stated they are receiving" but "is receiving"

correct, whether they went online to check I can't say because once I had handed over the documents under the glass window ( rather like a bank teller arrangement with a microphone to speak into) I was told to go back to my chair and wait, took about 15 minuets while she worked the computer, but that would be unlikely considering the time difference, it was 8:30 am BKK time but I assume that they know their own official documents. Once by mistake, several years ago now, I brought a copy of one of the documents instead of the original, I couldn't tell the difference but the attache could and refused to accept it. The bank statements were pulled from internet banking but weren't PDF as the bank site doesn't allow for this, only a print version is available (for good reason) the incoming and outgoing amounts are in different colours, a brilliant red and a strange green colour, so it would be difficult to forge and one would have to forge all the following amounts shown in the statement if one was lying, difficult to get the colours right probably and definitely criminal. If you were pulling a fast one there would always be the fear of them doing random checks at a later date as all the info I provide is fed into a computer so I think that they can say with reasonable certainty (you can't expect more than that) 'is receiving' 

[Expattaff1308]

This is the email to make a complaint about Consular Services

http://[email protected]