Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Indeed. I live with my wife in a house rent free.

So do I.....I paid for it!

[bkk6060]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I think it is probably more the norm that the Farang builds the wife a house. 

That is what a real man would do yes.

[Ebumbu]

Has this question been definitively answered? Will the "combined" method be available anywhere in country? So, for example, say I earn 40,000 baht but have 600,000 saved. Can I combine to make the goal post? I'd consider moving to any province that accepts this method in a worst case scenario.  ????

[NorthernRyland]

Just curious, if you transfer 65k per month can you transfer it back out after a certain period of time assuming you don't spend it? It seems trivial for a person with only a few thousand USD to transfer monthly around but not spend it all.

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, gaviny said:

So if I was go the 800K way..can I just rock up to Immigration with my passbook showing the transfer from Oz or do I still need a letter from the bank and anything else ?

You will need a Bank-letter, passbook just-updated, and balance in that acct not below the 800K minimum for 3 months (2 mo for the 1st extension). 

[Suradit69]

23 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

I've not seen anything from the Thai government sending out a memorandum to the U.S. Embassy or any Embassy not to issue anything unless you can verify the income?

The email from the US embassy included the following and I think the British Embassy said something similar.

 

Quote

The Royal Thai Government requires actual verification of income to certify visa applicants meet financial requirements for long-stay visas.  The U.S. government cannot provide this verification and will no longer issue the affidavits. 

 

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Has this question been definitively answered?

NO..

[JackThompson]

Just now, genericptr said:

Just curious, if you transfer 65k per month can you transfer it back out after a certain period of time assuming you don't spend it? It seems trivial for a person with only a few thousand USD to transfer monthly around but not spend it all.

Yes - discussed more at the top of this (long) thread.  Many will "rotate" excess-money (beyond what is actually needed to live here) out, then re-import it. 

 

This is why the proposed new-system is less "verification" than the status-quo, whereby a person must commit a felony (USA stat doc) to fake the income.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Not sure what "previous versions of the income affidavit" means, but they do have the right to refuse to notarize something.

The  income affidavit they  were talking about- has the addressee as Thai Immigration and a form that is filled out. I am talking about a Blank Affidavit-without an addressee- that can be used to state anything to include income-  I have used it for business in the US.  I am certain that this affidavit will still exist. Whether  Embassy will allow us to write in the info and they sign and Thai Imm would accept it is at this time unknown.

 

I have asked US Embassy for an explanation.

[fordguy61mi]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

Why an exodus ? its not that hard to put money in a Thai account. If you have the money its just moving money around.

I believe his inference was that many do not have the funds and were lying under oath to obtain the proper affidavit which is probably true.

[thailand49]

I have my own take on the entire situation.

For personal reasons I just don't like or trust the Thai bank the main reason, I keep the majority of it in the States. I have no problem drawing out of my Charles Schwab account and paying all the ATM fees.

Even with the announcement, I will now use the Bank statement to make my extension I got used to using the Embassy and paying them for the affidavit although the bank was much cheaper it was a great opportunity excuse to go into Bangkok for an R&R break from the family. I still will use the excuse since they have no idea of the Embassy decision now I can spend the 1550 baht on other entertainment?

When I and my brother started applying for our retirement extension we both weren't married we were soon after but never ever took the time to change our status. My brother status is a bit different he keeps even less in his Thai bank and has more than the sufficient income each month but due to the changes might not have enough time before his renewed to create a paper trail. Majority of the money he has in a Thai bank all the accounts are for his kids which are all under 18 years of age but there is more than enough money to satisfy the 800,000 but my assumption is he can't use these accounts for himself.

So the second alternative is to go from a Retirement Extension to a Marriage one?  by doing so does he have to start all over the process of getting a new 60 day visa etc and submitting all the document required which should be no problem.  I would assume the paperwork is pretty much the same sorry I haven't taken the time to look up the difference was typing fast and decided to just dump it in.  Any good answers?

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Very stupid comment as they will not be able to make an appointment for that service after that time.

Duh...

For the US embassy the appointments are for notarial and other services. No mention of what type of of notarial services.

But they might get a surprise if they tried to find the income affidavit page to complete and download one.

So who is the one not so smart?

 

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

So the second alternative is to go from a Retirement Extension to a Marriage one?  by doing so does he have to start all over the process of getting a new 60 day visa etc and submitting all the document required which should be no problem.  I would assume the paperwork is pretty much the same sorry I haven't taken the time to look up the difference was typing fast and decided to just dump it in.  Any good answers?

I don't believe  it's any problem at all=just different and more paperwork with a lesser financial requirement and the seasoning is 60 days instead of 90. I did it the other way  marriage to retirement but I remember reading that others have gone retirement to marriage with no issues other than the paper trail and one has to wait  an extra 30 days for the final approval. Others with more knowledge will be along.

[Suradit69]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

The  income affidavit they  were talking about- has the addressee as Thai Immigration and a form that is filled out. I am talking about a Blank Affidavit-without an addressee- that can be used to state anything to include income-  I have used it for business in the US.  I am certain that this affidavit will still exist. Whether  Embassy will allow us to write in the info and they sign and Thai Imm would accept it is at this time unknown.

 

I have asked US Embassy for an explanation.

Yes, I have used the blank affidavit and other notarial services before too, but I still doubt that Thai immigrations will consider anything to do with income verification from the US embassy if they have already stated they want income verified by the embassy and the embassy has said they can't do that.

 

As stated in the US Embassy notification:

 

Quote

The Royal Thai Government requires actual verification of income to certify visa applicants meet financial requirements for long-stay visas.  The U.S. government cannot provide this verification and will no longer issue the affidavits. 

Changing from an affidavit to a do-it-yourself, embassy notarized statement is unlikely to impress immigrations. They wouldn't have accepted it before now (an embassy officer told me they expected to see a specific embassy affidavit format) so why would they now.

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes - discussed more at the top of this (long) thread.  Many will "rotate" excess-money (beyond what is actually needed to live here) out, then re-import it. 

 

Immigration will probably be looking for people transferring money back to their country of origin right? I suspect their real goal is for you to actually spend 65k in Thailand every month, even though that's way more than I've ever needed in the North.

[garyk]

Wow, a lot more people affected than I would of thought.

I can't believe how many have family's and kids?????  That is the last thing I want in my old age.

And the amount of retired people investing in property in the retirement.

This is a very interesting thread.

 

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Has this question been definitively answered? Will the "combined" method be available anywhere in country? So, for example, say I earn 40,000 baht but have 600,000 saved. Can I combine to make the goal post? I'd consider moving to any province that accepts this method in a worst case scenario.  ????

The combination option is available at every immigration office since it is written in the police order.

[thailand49]

6 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

The email from the US embassy included the following and I think the British Embassy said something similar.

 

 

Maybe it is just me I did see that worded thanks for pointing it out to me but through everything, something just bothers me as to the way everything has gone down? This statement is the same it has always been really nothing new from the Thai requirement I seriously doubt any Embassy can really go through all the income being submitted and verify the data if it did it certainly wouldn't be a make a appointment and out in an hour you would have to submit the data and come back in two weeks if not more to get an affidavit with the seal. Would the length of obtaining an affidavit be enough of a insurance for the Thai that it has truly been verified!  Something just smells to me here but I wouldn't put it past them since the way they think here is just plain backward and that is truly being kind.

[KiChakayan]

7 hours ago, garyk said:

Over 100 billion baht just dropped into the laps of the Thai banking system.

Pretty good payday IMO.

So you reckon 125000 foreigners will by affected by this minor procedural tightening?

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, genericptr said:

Immigration will probably be looking for people transferring money back to their country of origin right? I suspect their real goal is for you to actually spend 65k in Thailand every month, even though that's way more than I've ever needed in the North.

They may wish for that - but it will never happen.  I would guess folks won't use the same account they are going to show to immigration for the xfer back to wherever-land.  Withdraw - put into another acct - xfer back from there.  If people had to take cash to Malaysia and send it back from there, they would do it. 

 

This change was foolish if "integrity" was the goal - but maybe this can help many more less-wealthy folks retire here who couldn't before, as they were unwilling to commit a felony to get a lying-affidavit. 

[RCS]

Has it been verified by Thai Immigration that presenting a Thai bank book showing average deposits greater than 65K per month for the past year satisfies the proof of income requirement?   They would all be wired from overseas and then spent in drips and drabs during the month.   

[thailand49]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I don't believe  it's any problem at all=just different and more paperwork with a lesser financial requirement and the seasoning is 60 days instead of 90. I did it the other way  marriage to retirement but I remember reading that others have gone retirement to marriage with no issues other than the paper trail and one has to wait  an extra 30 days for the final approval. Others with more knowledge will be along.

As I noted he has been doing the extension for 17 years but married 16 years with a bunch of kids. He keeps a small account with a bit over 400,000 for emergency whenever he visits States comes back with close to 10,000 USD so his mattress is stuffed right next to his 9mm. I guess it is the extra 30 days for the final approval. If his Retirement extension expires let say 28th of the month and he has to wait beyond the expiration of the 28th, would there be a problem?

[Suradit69]

21 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Why an exodus ? its not that hard to put money in a Thai account. If you have the money its just moving money around.

I believe his inference was that many do not have the funds and were lying under oath to obtain the proper affidavit which is probably true.

There are also people who have the funds but who find this new process a change, especially if they have to bring in money monthly that they don't need for living expenses. Proof of gross retirement income is not the same as proof the money is being deposited in a Thai bank. I usually leave some of my income in my US bank for other expenses, including paying credit card charges I have made in Thailand (or elsewhere).

 

And anyone planning to retire in Thailand in the near future may feel deterred by this somewhat chaotic development, especially if they anticipated staying here using the income method.

 

That's not an exodus, (slower inflow?)  but it could reduce the number of people ready to commit to retirement in Thailand. I would think it certain areas there could be more condos coming on the market and fewer people interested in buying as opposed to renting or looking elsewhere.

 

I planned staying in my condo until I died, but now wonder if selling it, putting the money in the bank and just paying rent somewhere. BUT if other people decide to sell it becomes a buyers market which works against me.

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, RCS said:

Has it been verified by Thai Immigration that presenting a Thai bank book showing average deposits greater than 65K per month for the past year satisfies the proof of income requirement?   They would all be wired from overseas and then spent in drips and drabs during the month.   

The simple answer is no.

[gaviny]

You will need a Bank-letter, passbook just-updated, and balance in that acct not below the 800K minimum for 3 months (2 mo for the 1st extension). 

Thanks Jack..should be no problem then.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

ut married 16 years with a bunch of kids. He keeps a small account with a bit over 400,000 for emergency whenever he visits States comes back with close to 10,000 USD so his mattress is stuffed right next to his 9mm. I guess it is the extra 30 days for the final approval. If his Retirement extension expires let say 28th of the month and he has to wait beyond the expiration of the 28th, would there be a problem?

Once his extension expires- he is on overstay and that present a problem- especially in the existing climate- if he needs further time and is legally married- I believe a 60 day extension is possible by bring his Thai wife to Immigration prior to the end of the extension.  UJ- correct me if I am wrong.

[blinkers]

Those with 800,000 in the bank shouldn't be too smug, the amount is quite likely to go up again.

[AtoZ]

6 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

Well I, for one, don't want to put aside $$$$ that have been making a good return on investment - last year that 24k ended up at 27.6k just sitting there.....

You're dead ended once you are forced to move & park that money in a Thai account....Moving it there is easy, moving it back & forth from a Thai bank across international boundaries to allow for earnings is not easy, or a good plan....

I've used the income affidavit & can verify every amount off my US bank statements as well as the monthly Thai withdrawls noted & itemized on the same bank statements in increments between 40-75k withdrawn at the Thai bank branch a couple of times each month......

Dead ending that money is, not what I feel, a good option.....

Exactly.... just simple US ETFs returned over 10% pa in the past decade

 

Good luck going through the bank bullshit to transfer own freaking money back

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, AtoZ said:

Exactly.... just simple US ETFs returned over 10% pa in the past decade

 

Good luck going through the bank bullshit to transfer own freaking money back

Don't need luck.  Just fill out one page of instructions and transfer.  I do it every year. 

[Suradit69]

13 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Would the length of obtaining an affidavit be enough of a insurance for the Thai that it has truly been verified!  Something just smells to me here but I wouldn't put it past them since the way they think here is just plain backward and that is truly being kind.

I don't see anything backward in having a minimum income requirement to stay here long term and some proof being required for what you claim that income is.

 

As far as something being "truly verified," I think we've established that no embassy can or ever has actually verified income. Maybe in some countries if you get a single source government pension they could, but that is something the US Embassy cannot do even for Social Security let along the myriad other sources of retirement income.

 

Implying that Thais are backward for recognizing that some people have been getting some sort of income letter from their embassies that has been fraudulent. is just childish name-calling.  The embassies are admitting they can't verify income and Thai immigrations is seeking a way to see who really has the money and who does not.