Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[fforest1]

29 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually= the more confusing it is- the better they like it- more chances for a 'bonus'

The retired population is no threat to the security of Thailand- hardly ever hear of a Senior citizen getting busted for drugs; money laundering; running a boiler room; or robbing a bank.

Well one time I did see this old expat sneak a 2nd helping of pig at a balloon beer bar pig roast....

I think the #1 problem with the embassy income letter was it just worked to good and not enough kickbacks.. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by fforest1

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

And now with 4-5 pages of primary proof and maybe more as opposed to the current boiler plate one-number embassy income letter how many retirement extensions per hour will the Thai IMM accountants be able to process?

And will all the "proof" be easily understood by immigration officials, or will it be bits and pieces of paper that only an accountant could understand?

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, fforest1 said:

Well one time I did see this old expat sneak a 2nd helping of pig at a balloon beer bar pig roast.

Yes and I forgot that a  bunch of them got busted. in Pattaya for playing Bridge.

[Mike Teavee]

15 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

You are referring to unrealized capital gains yes?

Once you sell, I believe the net gain is taxable.

 

No... I'm referring to the fact that Capital Gains are not Income hence any Tax to be paid is "Capital Gains Tax" not "Income Tax".

 

Whether Thai Immigration accept this as proof of income is another thing, but really it's no different than selling any other asset (House, Car etc...) 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

And will all the "proof" be easily understood by immigration officials, or will it be bits and pieces of paper that only an accountant could understand?

Easy to understand- how do I know?  When Thai Imm asked me to prove my income- that's what I showed. They had no problem  with it. Yes- I did have the Embassy letter but they wanted the proof. What can I say- in the future who knows. i can only tell people what  my past experience was and read on this forum what theirs is.

[JLCrab]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

And will all the "proof" be easily understood by immigration officials, or will it be bits and pieces of paper that only an accountant could understand?

Who says an accountant would understand it without several hours perusal and an adding machine?

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Easy to understand- how do I know?  When Thai Imm asked me to prove my income- that's what I showed. They had no problem  with it. Yes- I did have the Embassy letter but they wanted the proof. What can I say- in the future who knows. i can only tell people what  my past experience was and read on this forum what theirs is.

It was the embassy letter that got you through. If you had to show income from several sources like, rental property, share investments, fixed deposit interest, superannuation, etc, etc, I doubt if immigration is going to be trawling through all that, and trying to verify the veracity of it. I can see them insisting on either two things, monthly income paid into a Thai bank account or the 800K, it would make life a lot simpler for them.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Who says an accountant would understand it without several hours perusal and an adding machine?

And who knows whether in the future Thai Imm will accept the 800K  money in the bank without proof of income backing it up?  We can speculate ad infinitum  about everything. They could raise the retirement age to 70. They could raise the income level to 1 Million Baht. They could do away with the retirement option.  They could raise the marriage income level.  They could stop the Elite Visa. They could stop the O-A Visa.....on and on and on.

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Who says an accountant would understand it without several hours perusal and an adding machine?

Exactly.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

And who knows whether in the future Thai Imm will accept the 800K  money in the bank without proof of income backing it up?  We can speculate ad infinitum  about everything. They could raise the retirement age to 70. They could raise the income level to 1 Million Baht. They could do away with the retirement option.  They could raise the marriage income level.  They could stop the Elite Visa. They could stop the O-A Visa.....on and on and on.

Of course they have to accept the 800K. The bank letter that you have to get spells out the details of your account, how long it's been there etc, as well as photocopies of your bankbooks. Yes, maybe a PM will be elected with mindset of a Robert Mugabe and kick out all westerners, anything is possible, but not probable.

[david555]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

How do the dogs know how much money you have?

 

How they find , explosives , dead body or living ones under snow ruble etc....?. they have very fine noses , even now in the military are rats used for finding / disabling persons landmines...

And no they can not count …, but it is easy to take a amount of 10 000 in any currency and train them on that smell type print ink so even higher he / she would react on

Edited October 30, 2018 by david555

[HHTel]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Since there are only 2 Embassies that will no longer provide an Income Letter after Jan 1

Only 2 Embassies?  But those two represent the majority of western expats living here.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Of course they have to accept the 800K. The bank letter that you have to get spells out the details of your account, how long it's been there etc, as well as photocopies of your bankbooks. Yes, maybe a PM will be elected with mindset of a Robert Mugabe and kick out all westerners, anything is possible, but not probable.

How do you know- maybe Thai Imm starts to believe that  your 800K is the only 800K you have and you simply keep putting it back in the bank year after year and its the same money recycled over and over again.They could easily say- now prove you have monthly income to live on and show the proof. 

This is the reverse argument that they will never accept  proof of 65K per month without it being placed in a Thai bank account each month.

Everybody better hope for the best situation for everyone- because  Thai Imm could do many things and make life real difficult for everyone. Do I think they will - no- but that is why I, for one, always have irrefutable proof of income.

[JLCrab]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Thai Imm could do many things 

Sure -- What about universal healthcare as a basic human right?

[david555]

Just now, JLCrab said:

Sure -- What about universal healthcare as a basic human right?

I would not be surprised that Thailand never signed that treaty …(lol.)..same as the refugee treaty from united nations  ????

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Sure -- What about universal healthcare as a basic human right?

Yes they could ask for proof of health insurance.  As far as  universal healthcare as a human right- it appears so in Thailand for Thai citizens and most of the Western World through taxpayer health schemes. In America- it is not treated as a basic human right  but that is another issue that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

The point of my last post was that those who have theirs should not be complacent and  look down on those that have potential problems.  I can take care of myself but I feel sorry  if  potential changes will force people to have to relocate because of circumstances beyond their control.

No one knows the future- be kind to the people on your way up- you just might meet them on your way down.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Thaidream

[JLCrab]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The point of my last post was that those who have theirs should not be complacent and  look down on those that have potential problems. 

I haven't looked down on anyone. Didn't I post on here as to how someone can show a deposit of 65K baht into their Thai bank every month when they really don't have 65K baht to deposit into their Thai bank account every month?

Edited October 30, 2018 by JLCrab

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

haven't looked down on anyone. Didn't I post on here as to how someone can show a deposit of 65K baht per month into their Thai bank every month when they really don't have 65K baht to deposit into their Thai bank account every month

JL- I was not referring to you or anyone in particular.  It's just that all the speculation of what they may accept or not is just that- speculation.  I hope for the best -for everyone.

 

Ps- I am keeping a Thai Accountant on retainer to accompany me to Thai Imm  to interpret my paperwork to the Officer (Just Kidding!!)

[JLCrab]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I hope for the best -for everyone.

I hope for the best for me and screw anyone else.

 

 

 (Just Kidding!!)

[Ebumbu]

4 hours ago, greenbottle555 said:

I've been in Thailand for 5 years on non-imm O visas. With the recent "Operation X-Ray Outlaw Foreigner" crackdowns and now this where there is no way to apply for a visa without putting 12,000-24,000 USD into a Thai bank, I'm going elsewhere. The combination of having to deposit money into a Thai bank, while at the same time police are going around door-to-door looking for reasons to deport foreigners, is just a clear sign that foreigners are not welcomed to stay here. Heck, I just learned that work visas and permits are being turned down, you can't even work here even if a Thai company wants you to. It's simply not sustainable. I am thinking of relocating to singapore since I'm at the point in my life where I am shopping around for the best place to raise a family. I think Thailand is scaring away the people who are more likely to work a normal job than they are scaring away the "bad guys out good guys in" motto.

 

Damn. You put it so succinctly. I love this place. I feel it's my home. I love the chaos and the vibrant street life. So much is beautiful here. The land, the ancient sites. The ladies. I even gave up ganja to respect their laws (signifiant sacrifice).

But, if there's continuous uncertainty about whether I'm allowed to live here in peace, that's not conducive to my overall well being. Police knocks definitely do not work for me. I have a phobia about that (and venomous snakes). I would, perforce, nope my way all the way to Cambodia or Vietnam. Nope nope nope nope nope. 
 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Who says an accountant would understand it without several hours perusal and an adding machine?

I think it is safe to say from everything we know so far is that the income you produce must be into a Thai Bank Account (in Thailand), whether that can be monthly or over 3 months or over 6 months or yearly is yet to be established, for 90% of people this would make things a lot easier. 

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

I even gave up ganja to respect their laws (signifiant sacrifice).

I can relate thats why Im 6 on, 6 off ????

 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

It was the embassy letter that got you through. If you had to show income from several sources like, rental property, share investments, fixed deposit interest, superannuation, etc, etc, I doubt if immigration is going to be trawling through all that

and neither did your embassy, they took your word for it which is why the whole thing was deeply flawed and is now being revised by Thai Authorities 

 

Those from other countries should expect the same announcement very soon unless their embassies are prepared to actually 100% verify what each individual is submitting and stand over it legally 

[JLCrab]

14 minutes ago, smedly said:

for 90% of people this would make things a lot easier. 

And maybe for at least the remaining 10% -

 

You put your money in
You take your money out
You put your money in
And you shake it all about
You do the hokey pokey
Turn money all around
That's what it's all about

[Ebumbu]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am sure they would want to see that it is transferred from abroad. That would make it an expensive and difficult workaround to do.

 

Incoming: Transferwise
Outgoing: Dee Money

Not expensive ... If it comes to that. 

[fforest1]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

And who knows whether in the future Thai Imm will accept the 800K  money in the bank without proof of income backing it up?  We can speculate ad infinitum  about everything. They could raise the retirement age to 70. They could raise the income level to 1 Million Baht. They could do away with the retirement option.  They could raise the marriage income level.  They could stop the Elite Visa. They could stop the O-A Visa.....on and on and on.

There is a saying in investing....That saying is the trend is your friend.....

Sense the 30 day visa runners were first cracked down on in 2009-2010 the trend in Thai visas has been ever more restrictions,ever more tightening,ever more crackdowns...

There is ZERO indication that the trend has changed directions for the better.....So expect more visa problems in the future.....It would be unwise to be to smug with what ever visa you have....

 

The elite visa seems to be the only untouchable visa as of now....

 

Hey when the trend changes direction we can celebrate until then dont put all your eggs in one basket.... 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by fforest1

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Incoming: Transferwise
Outgoing: Dee Money

Not expensive ... If it comes to that. 

Dee money only has offices in Bangkok which makes it a no go for most people in Thailand

[JLCrab]

If the IMM folks want to use the 65K baht monthly deposit from a Non-Thai bank to a Thai bank as 'evidence' under the current Police Order, then I say great -- just that there is realistic acknowledgement that, if someone wants to go through the time, expense, and effort to recycle their monthly deposit, there is a work-around.

Edited October 30, 2018 by JLCrab

[bkk6060]

27 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

There is a saying in investing....That saying is the trend is your friend.....

Sense the 30 day visa runners were first cracked down on in 2009-2010 the trend in Thai visas has been ever more restrictions,ever more tightening,ever more crackdowns...

There is ZERO indication that the trend has changed directions for the better.....So expect more visa problems in the future.....It would be unwise to be to smug with what ever visa you have....

 

The elite visa seems to be the only untouchable visa as of now....

 

Hey when the trend changes direction we can celebrate until then dont put all your eggs in one basket.... 

 

 

Yes.

Don´t put all your eggs in one basket which would be the government run/regulated TE Visa.

Exactly thanks...

 

[balo]

Many people on "Retirement Extension" are not yet retired and don't have any kind of pension.
You just need to be 50 yo to get it.
Even among retirees, many don't have pension, just a big asset.

And I am one of those not on a pension As a freelancer my income varies from month to month. Some months I get 100k baht , other months as low as 30k. I could transfer 800k from my foreign bank account but I don't want to keep the money in Thailand.