Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Mike Teavee]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

What you could spend would be your gross income plus whatever savings you have, yes?

 

No... it would be Net income (Gross income after any deductions/expenses) + whatever savings you had + whatever you can find down the back of the sofa ???? 

 

I think Thai Immigration are more interested in what you have to spend (i.e. Net) but currently you show your Gross Income... if they do move to proof of deposit & you do bring it all over then this would equivalent to your Net Income (Which means people using Gross Income today would need to find another x% if they're hovering around the borderline).

 

[usacb500biker]

It's too late ????? for U S citizens I just made my Embassy appointment,  I think theres NO-More !!!!!!   Hurry or your out of Luck.....Sorry

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, usacb500biker said:

It's too late ????? for U S citizens I just made my Embassy appointment,  I think theres NO-More !!!!!!   Hurry or your out of Luck.....Sorry

Just checked there are still lot of appointments available for December.

 

[mogandave]

No... it would be Net income (Gross income after any deductions/expenses) + whatever savings you had + whatever you can find down the back of the sofa [emoji846] 

 

I think Thai Immigration are more interested in what you have to spend (i.e. Net) but currently you show your Gross Income... if they do move to proof of deposit & you do bring it all over then this would equivalent to your Net Income (Which means people using Gross Income today would need to find another x% if they're hovering around the borderline).

 

 

Plus whatever capital gains you realize....

 

Plus whatever credit cards you have...

[JackThompson]

28 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

If so, Ok.

But if you declare 70'000 (gross) - that allows you Retirement Extension - when in reality you only have 50'000 available  (net), it seems to me like another way to cheat on TI rules... 

 

People of many countries don't even have this possibility. They have to declare their Net Income for their embassy letter. (about -30% for France)

That would be an embassy-decision (I'm not familiar with).  The written-rules for extensions based on income do not require calculating deductions from one's gross income - for example, taxes paid on an overseas-taxable income-source. 

 

It would be easy to modify the TI rules and embassy-letter wording to say "net income", if that were the issue.  But even if "Net Income after taxes and other expenses directly-related to the income-source" were specified, what about other non-Thai expenses? 

 

Maybe they will soon say "Only Income Transferred to Thailand," but then, who knows what "proof" of the income-source might be required.  We just don't know.

Edited November 1, 2018 by JackThompson

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Cruzn said:

Could someone clarify the distinction between the 400,000 and 800,000 baht accounts?  I understand that the 800,000 is required for one individual.  But if there is married couple, both Americans, is it 400,000 each or 800,000 each?  Thanks!

400K does not apply in this case.

 

If only one of them is over 50 they need 800K in the bank and the other needs none. The partner under 50 can ‘piggyback’ the extension of stay of the other.

 

If both over 50 they have the choice of;

1. both getting extensions in their own right, in which case they both need 800K in separate accounts;

 

2. OR either can get an extension of stay with 800K in the bank and the other can ‘piggyback’ that extension without any money in the bank.

[DogNo1]

As yet, there is no indication that an immigration officer will not accept proof of retirement income into a foreign bank account.  The police order has never mentioned that an income affidavit from an embassy is required.  The assumption that the proof of retirement income accepted thus far will not be accepted without an income affidavit is not supported by fact.  Without the income affidavit, the types of income paid into the foreign bank account may now be more closely scrutinized to ensure that they are regularly paid into the foreign bank account from legitimate retirement sources such as Social Security, state retirement systems such as CALSTRS, retirement annuities, etc. but there has been no official change in the proof of income requirements.  

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

5 hours ago, Cruzn said:

Could someone clarify the distinction between the 400,000 and 800,000 baht accounts?  I understand that the 800,000 is required for one individual.  But if there is married couple, both Americans, is it 400,000 each or 800,000 each?  Thanks!

The 400k is for a Foreign Man married to a Thai Woman, it would be 800K each for 2 foreigners (married or not)

It doesn’t have to be 800K each.

 

Only one needs 800K in the bank to get an extension of stay, and the other can ‘piggyback’ that extension with no money in the bank.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

As yet, there is no indication that an immigration officer will not accept proof of retirement income into a foreign bank account.  The police order has never mentioned that an income affidavit from an embassy is required.  The assumption that the proof of retirement income accepted thus far will not be accepted without an income affidavit is not supported by fact. 

Try applying for one now without proof of income from an embassy and you will be sent away from immigration.

The letter is not shown in the police order because it is in another order or directive going back a couple of decades or more.

[cleopatra2]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Try applying for one now without proof of income from an embassy and you will be sent away from immigration.

The letter is not shown in the police order because it is in another order or directive going back a couple of decades or more.

Ubonjoe , do we have the original  police order requesting the income letter ? . It still should be available 

[mogandave]

The IRS provides a “Tax Return Transcript” that can be use as proof of income in the US.

It would be great if that were something that could be used...

[gaviny]

Since Thai Immigration allows embassy income letters up to 6 months old it is a key reason there is probably no urgency at HQ Thai Immigration to put out new guidance over the next few months.  I expect HQ TI to set back for several more months at least...collect data & recommendations from their immigration offices which are probably doing some surveys/asking applicants what they now plan to do for their next renewal...even monitor threads like this on ThaiVisa...etc.  And then possibly (hopefully) put out guidance on their website which we can all read versus needing to ask for an immigration officer's interpretation at Nakhon Nowhere offices.   
 
Unfortunately we are just going to have to wait for HQ TI guidance which I know is kinda like an injured person who has broken bones & bleeding who is nervously looking-up at the doctors & nurses around him but the doctors are not talking as they silently stand over you as they think how to treat you.
 
 

I enquired at the Aranyaprathet Immigration and they are not aware of any changes ,I had enquired about the letters being accepted for extension in 2019 and as far as they are concern it business as usual until advised by HQ.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

39 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Ubonjoe , do we have the original  police order requesting the income letter ? . It still should be available 

No I don't have one. Not sure where it could be found. 

[Pib]

Maybe it was the May 2013 Police Memorandum attached in below post....the attachment is in Thai along with an unofficial translation.  I've also included snapshots of the English translation below talking use of the embassy letter and 6 month validity period.

 

 

[garyk]

Just set up getting my letter from the US Embassy in BKK, will take the letter with bank statements showing my SS check and another retirement check going into my account that will show over 65K, for the past several years. 

If that ain't enough, then personally I could care less. I will head to greener pastures no problem what so ever. I enjoy traveling anyway, but Thailand was a great hub for travel in S.E. Asia.

This is getting ridiculous IMO. 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by garyk

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Just checked there are still lot of appointments available for December.

 

Just for info.  2 days ago there were 67 on Dec. 31. Now 21. I got one.

Just sayin when the word gets out more they will go fast.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, usacb500biker said:

8 years in a rented condo.  THANK YOU, thai imminigration for kicking me in the Axx  moving to Cambodia, Laos ECT....

What you complaining about?

You rented you can leave here with no commitments.

Good luck in Cambodia...

[bkk6060]

13 minutes ago, garyk said:

Just set up getting my letter from the US Embassy in BKK, will take the letter with bank statements showing my SS check and another retirement check going into my account that will show over 65K, for the past several years. 

If that ain't enough, then personally I could care less. I will head to greener pastures no problem what so ever. I enjoy traveling anyway, but Thailand was a great hub for travel in S.E. Asia.

This is getting ridiculous IMO. 

 

You worried why? Sounds to me like you have your act together and I bet it will be smooth sailing with a stamp for one more year.

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, usacb500biker said:

8 years in a rented condo.  THANK YOU, thai imminigration for kicking me in the Axx  moving to Cambodia, Laos ECT....

Wrong target. Go complain to your embassy. 

[mrwebb8825]

UdonJoe, did you see this post as well?

NOTICE: Beginning January 1, 2019, U.S. Embassy Bangkok and U.S. Consulate General Chiang Mai will no longer provide the income affidavit. We will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit. For more information, please refer to our Fact Sheet (PDF 266KB) and Frequently Asked Questions (PDF 419KB). We will continue to notarize income affidavit forms through the end of 2018. Thai Immigration Bureau officials confirmed that they will support early visa renewals for U.S. citizens during the transition period.

 

Do you know how early is too early and is this ONLY for applications received between now and Dec. 31st 2018?

This comes from here:

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/

[Pib]

35 minutes ago, garyk said:

Just set up getting my letter from the US Embassy in BKK, will take the letter with bank statements showing my SS check and another retirement check going into my account that will show over 65K, for the past several years. 

If that ain't enough, then personally I could care less. I will head to greener pastures no problem what so ever. I enjoy traveling anyway, but Thailand was a great hub for travel in S.E. Asia.

This is getting ridiculous IMO. 

 

The embassy does not require you to show any supporting income docs to get the letter.  You get it no problem. 

 

However, that does not mean when you apply for your next extension with the embassy income letter in hand that "Thai Immigration" may not ask to review your income docs.   That's been occurring at some immigration offices for a while.

 

All you can do is get the embassy income letter and hope that method is still an accepted proof of income for extension purposes by Thai Immigration when it comes time for your renewal.  I expect Thai Immigration will continue to follow their current policy that an embassy letter is good for up to 6 months after issue.

 

As to if Thai Immigration makes some major change say over the next few months of doing away with the embassy income method for any nationality, well, that's just conjecture but is within the realm of possibility. 

 

A person should have a Plan B.

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Do you know how early is too early and is this ONLY for applications received between now and Dec. 31st 2018?

At some offices it is already 45 days. The longest I have ever read about with a ticket out the country was 60 days.

No sure how early they would allow it. It would probably depend upon the office you have to use.

My extension is due the 19th of August so I am not even thinking of getting a affidavit in late December.

[steve73]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The required funds are 800K for a retirement-based extension.  But the solution is to have the 800K in one-spouse's acct, get the retirement-extension for them, then have the other "piggy-back" with a Non-O extension as the spouse / family-member of the other.  No financials are required for the 2nd applicant.

The other way a retired farang couple can do this is by staggering their extension dates... 800k in one name for 3 months until extension granted then transfer it to the other's sole account in time for 3 months seasoning for the partners extension.

[fforest1]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

At some offices it is already 45 days. The longest I have ever read about with a ticket out the country was 60 days.

No sure how early they would allow it. It would probably depend upon the office you have to use.

My extension is due the 19th of August so I am not even thinking of getting a affidavit in late December.

6 months from Dec 31 would be around July 1st ... August 19 would only be 49 days later....It does not sound to early to me..... 

Edited November 1, 2018 by fforest1

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

4 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Hum... Very unsure about the Gross Income. Thai Immigration never wrote that.

I am pretty sure that what Thai Immigration wants to know is

the amount of money you are able to spend in Thailand, e.g. your Net Income...

It is gross income. That has been discussed before in other topics

Immigrantion do not specify net or gross, which allows this loophole for people to claim their gross income as their income.

 

Of course it should be your actual (net) income!

[harpman88]

Hi all,I just came back from giving my passport to my agent here (OS Visa) in C.Mai to do my 90 day report due Nov. 4 .Ive got my appt. at the US Consulate for my income letter on Dec. 20.Ive been using the "combo method",both bank acct.and income, for the past 12 years, and Ive seen here that the law has not (yet) been changed as to using this method. (My annual extension good till Feb.11 2019,) The good folks at OS told me that C.Mai Imm. has told them nothing,in spite of the "prevailing wisdom" here, about any income letters being valid after Dec.31,let alone 6 months thereafter. Is there anything IN WRITING officially stating that this 6 month validity period actually exists? I'd be very happy hear from any other "C.Mai extenders" going forward as to how C.Mai Imm. is handling income letters issued before Dec.31. BTW Thanks to Ubon Joe and Jingthing for their many incisive posts directly pertaining to the matter at hand.

[sqwakvfr]

I used Net Income on the Affidavit because I can provide documentation(Bank Direct Deposit and Montly Pension Statements).  I am trying to make this upcoming extension as simple as possible.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

6 months from Dec 31 would be around July 1st ... August 19 would only be 49 days later....It does not sound to early to me..... 

I counted it as 50 days. But I am not sure I would try to do it on the December 31st. I have to fly to Bangkok to do it and the flights would be very expensive then. I was thinking  December 27th when afternoon appointments are available but flights still would be expensive then.

I don't like the idea of spending several thousand baht and not being able to do it.

[fforest1]

1 minute ago, harpman88 said:

Hi all,I just came back from giving my passport to my agent here (OS Visa) in C.Mai to do my 90 day report due Nov. 4 .Ive got my appt. at the US Consulate for my income letter on Dec. 20.Ive been using the "combo method",both bank acct.and income, for the past 12 years, and Ive seen here that the law has not (yet) been changed as to using this method. (My annual extension good till Feb.11 2019,) The good folks at OS told me that C.Mai Imm. has told them nothing,in spite of the "prevailing wisdom" here, about any income letters being valid after Dec.31,let alone 6 months thereafter. Is there anything IN WRITING officially stating that this 6 month validity period actually exists? I'd be very happy hear from any other "C.Mai extenders" going forward as to how C.Mai Imm. is handling income letters issued before Dec.31. BTW Thanks to Ubon Joe and Jingthing for their many incisive posts directly pertaining to the matter at hand.

Chang Mai is a well know problem place for visas...I would avoid myself...

[namatjira]

6 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Please let me be the first in line to to tell you to man-up and suck it up when they decide to stop accepting what ever method you are using to get your visa... 

 

All visas....Every last one of them (including the 800,000 in the bank) have weakness that can be and are used to cheat the system every day...

Gloating about others visa misfortune seems to be a sport on Thai Visa ever sense the first visa crackdowns on the 30 day visa runners... 

 

Well Forrest I have for the last 7 years just had my 800,000 in a Thai bank on fixed term deposit.....I have at this stage never even considered lying on a stack of bibles and making false claims to reside here...they may well raise the 800,000 and if so I would comply with that...however given that they grandfathered the last batch of retirement visa holders, and there being a precedence for this.....I don’t think that’s any major concern.

its all so easy to do.....so man up Forrest....put your money on the table....do you really think it’s fair that some people were able to reside here by this method ?