Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

Problem is being able to do any type of true verification where mere copies of income docs could be fake and requires the embassy to actually contact a govt agency or civilian company to get confirmation the docs/income is valid.  With privacy and identity protection laws/polices it just ain't going to happen.

Depends. It's far to always be so complicated. In my country you don't need to contact anyone; you can verify by example a Tax Service Notice directly on their Internet site using codes and url on the notice. They have put this service in place several years ago, when they (nearly) stopped to send "paper" notices. My embassy could use that, TI couldn't. All my documents (work, tax, bank,...) are pdf only since about 5 years ago.

[mogandave]

52 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I'd suggest that they took longer to see if there was a way that they could help their citizens than maybe our Embassies did.

 

I've no experience personally, just going on the impression I get from what my brother has told me over the past 35+ years that he's been working in doing trade deals with the Nordic countries... 

Well, I'm just going by what I'm reading. at least a couple embassies gave a little notice and will continue issuing letter until the end of the year.

[Mike Teavee]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Well, I'm just going by what I'm reading. at least a couple embassies gave a little notice and will continue issuing letter until the end of the year.

Very True...

 

And I'm surprised that they would cut it off so suddenly (to the point where they needed to give refunds for the ones that were in progress) so can only assume it's getting very serious now & we'll see more Embassies follow shortly.

 

 

[mogandave]

54 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I see what you are saying but in reality TI can do what they want.

All those involved know now that the income is not verified and fraud is quite possible so in reality from a TI aspect those letter are possibly not valid at all.

I would not be surprised if TI came out soon and said as of Jan 1 those letters are no good.

 

Just to add I have changed my thinking on all this.  It is the US Embassy I am pissed at.  Just charge $100 dollars and hire some people to at least attempt to do some type of income verification.  I for one am still paying big taxes in the US for what??

It was an important service they should provide to citizens. 

4

You think the U.S. Government should just provide "...some type of income verification..." by hiring a few people and charging an extra $50?

 

If you're retired and still paying big taxes you've got plenty of dough and should not have anything to worry about.

[mogandave]

8 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Very True...

 

And I'm surprised that they would cut it off so suddenly (to the point where they needed to give refunds for the ones that were in progress) so can only assume it's getting very serious now & we'll see more Embassies follow shortly.

 

 

If I had to guess there is a big liability involved, and there's nothing the embassies can do at least in the short term.

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, mogandave said:

You think the U.S. Government should just provide "...some type of income verification..." by hiring a few people and charging an extra $50?

 

 

Yes.

[Mike Teavee]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

If I had to guess there is a big liability involved, and there's nothing the embassies can do at least in the short term.

That would throw the cat(s) amongst the pigeons... 

[tropo]

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Asking a immigration officer certainly creates confusion since they have no new info about what immigrations requirement are.

Nobody does until  the Immigration Bureau either confirms or denies what the embassies have said.

I got the impression from Oztrukie's post that the IO asked him a question (did he use stat decs before) and the IO then went to see his/her supervisor and came back with the proclamation that only 800k deposits would be accepted next year starting from December. Yes, they are probably confused, but if you're going in to get an extension, only what they say at the time counts.

[Maestro]

Removed an incomprehensible post and the reply to it.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Which Embassy is next I wonder, I would have laid money on the Scandic countries being towards the back of the countries to stop issuing the income letters, don't know why but I've always viewed them as supporting their citizens more.

This makes it even more clear that it is a move by Thai immigration saying "We aren't accepting these any more."  So, the "English-speaking alliance" theory now goes in the round-file along with the "UK embassy being cheap," theory (I was initially buying the latter theory).

 

2 hours ago, Pib said:

And do not believe what you see in the movies/crime TV shows where Hawaii Five-O, NCIS, or whatever other drama police series where some crime fighter pulls-up full financial data on a suspect in a heartbeat with a few keystrokes.  Sorry, that's all fantasy. 

This is also illegal under US law, without a warrant.  When not flagrantly breaking the law and lying about it under oath to Congress (cough Clapper, cough), one workaround of the "five-eyes" nations' intel-outfits, is to use the "other guy's" agency to do the spying on its own citizenry.  But that sort of thing won't be happening to get "income-verifications" for expats' extensions of stay.

[Tounge Thaied]

On 10/26/2018 at 8:49 AM, garyk said:

I think it is strictly a way to put money in the system period. Their are not that many expats from the U.S. living here.

 

[Tounge Thaied]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:02 AM, billd766 said:

Absolutely. IF you have the money to spare.

 

Many people don't though they do have the income to cover it.

 

And for those who don't of cannot come up with a lump sum?

 

What are they supposed to do?

 

Leave their Thai families behind and go back to their own country on their own?

As of October 26, 2018, U.S. citizens can verify they meet the income requirements directly with Royal Thai Immigration by providing a local bank statement indicating a minimum deposit of 800,000 Thai Baht or a local bank statement showing a monthly deposit of at least 65,000 Thai Baht.

[Jingthing]

As of October 26, 2018, U.S. citizens can verify they meet the income requirements directly with Royal Thai Immigration by providing a local bank statement indicating a minimum deposit of 800,000 Thai Baht or a local bank statement showing a monthly deposit of at least 65,000 Thai Baht.

Bank method is unchanged.
Your confidence about the income method without embassy letters going forward is not backed up with firm evidence.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tounge Thaied]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bank method is unchanged.
Your confidence about the income method without embassy letters going forward is not backed up with firm evidence.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children):

Criteria for Consideration

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (2) The alien must have proof of relationship. (3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto; or (4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse’s children, said children, adopted children, or spouse’s children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age; or (5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year. For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis. (6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year.

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form 2. Copy of applicant’s passport 3. Copy of documents proving relationship, such as a marriage certificate, a birth certificate, registration of child legitimization, household registration certificate, child adoption registration certificate, or other evidence from the government or relevant agency 4. Copy of evidence proving the Thai nationality of the spouse, parents, children, or adopted children, such as a national ID card, copy of household registration certificate, or other evidence issued by the government or relevant agency 5. Only for Criteria (5) and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency. An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alien’s marital or parental status with a Thai national. Source: Royal Thai Immigration Bureau

[Tounge Thaied]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Bank method is unchanged.
Your confidence about the income method without embassy letters going forward is not backed up with firm evidence.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

In the case of retirement:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (2) Must be 50 years of age or over. (3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or (5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date. (6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria: (a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000. (b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form 2. Copy of applicant’s passport 3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or 4. Account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook 5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4 stated above.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tounge Thaied said:

In the case of retirement:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (2) Must be 50 years of age or over. (3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or (5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date. (6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria: (a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000. (b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form 2. Copy of applicant’s passport 3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or 4. Account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook 5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4 stated above.

That all you got? Good luck. 

[Tounge Thaied]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That all you got? Good luck. 

<deleted> are you talking about. That is direct evidence. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tounge Thaied said:

<deleted> are you talking about. That is direct evidence. 

I have a feeling that you haven't been following this issue closely. The truth is we don't know yet what's going to happen next year to these two groups of people doing income based applications --

people with income letters previously obtained

people without income letters (for Danes, that starts NOW)

 

Cheers. 

[Tounge Thaied]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have a feeling that you haven't been following this issue closely. The truth is we don't know yet what's going to happen next year to these two groups of people doing income based applications --

people with income letters previously obtained

people without income letters (for Danes, that starts NOW)

 

Cheers. 

The current requirements are very clearly written... yes those can change again at anytime. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tounge Thaied said:

The current requirements are very clearly written... yes those can change again at anytime. 

The withdraw of the letters mean things have already changed. The letters have been required. There is no definitive message from Thai immigration as yet whether any income based applications will be accepted next year without letters. Yes, there is also at least one credible report from Jomtien that income based applications won't be accepted at all. I find it absurd that anyone would have confidence that they know what's going to happen to people next year with income based applications. The Danes are now on the cutting edge of this. 
 

Cheers. 

[Tounge Thaied]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The withdraw of the letters mean things have already changed. The letters have been required. There is no definitive message from Thai immigration as yet whether any income based applications will be accepted next year without letters. Yes, there is also at least one credible report from Jomtien that income based applications won't be accepted at all. I find it absurd that anyone would have confidence that they know what's going to happen to people next year with income based applications. The Danes are now on the cutting edge of this. 
 

Cheers. 

Right. Things have already changed and the information I provided is directly from the Thai Immigration Bureau indicating the CURRENT rules. So yes applications are still currently being accepted at the states rules. Currently you must provide evidence of the relevant income or stated amounts as stated. That is current requirements... and yes this can change again at anytime. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Right. Things have already changed and the information I provided is directly from the Thai Immigration Bureau indicating the CURRENT rules. So yes applications are still currently being accepted at the states rules. Currently you must provide evidence of the relevant income or stated amounts as stated. That is current requirements... and yes this can change again at anytime. 

I see. You're a literalist. What's on that website reflects reality at immigration offices next year. We have nothing more to say. We both wish for the best but I'm more of a realist.

[Tounge Thaied]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I see. You're a literalist. What's on that website reflects reality at immigration offices next year. We have nothing more to say. We both wish for the best but I'm more of a realist.

????

[Tounge Thaied]

Time to use your 800,000 baht wisely. If your like me, I pay $1500.00 per year for a health insurance plan. If I were to put my required 800,000 into a Thai bank deposit and contribute my health insurance premium to that account (self insuring myself) here is the result...

If you start with $25,000.00 in a money market account earning a 2.500% interest rate, compounded monthly, and make $150.00 deposits on a monthly basis, after 10 Years your money market account will have grown to $52,518.08 -- of which $43,000.00 is the total of your beginning balance plus deposits, and $9,518.08 is the total interest earnings.

https://www.lhbank.co.th/Promotion/Detail/Deposit_Promotions-บัญชีเงินฝากประจำพิเศษ_25_เดือน/2/56

[Tounge Thaied]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:01 AM, pgrahmm said:

Well I, for one, don't want to put aside $$$$ that have been making a good return on investment - last year that 24k ended up at 27.6k just sitting there.....

You're dead ended once you are forced to move & park that money in a Thai account....Moving it there is easy, moving it back & forth from a Thai bank across international boundaries to allow for earnings is not easy, or a good plan....

I've used the income affidavit & can verify every amount off my US bank statements as well as the monthly Thai withdrawls noted & itemized on the same bank statements in increments between 40-75k withdrawn at the Thai bank branch a couple of times each month......

Dead ending that money is, not what I feel, a good option.....

Time to use your 800,000 baht wisely. If your like me, I pay $1500.00 per year for a health insurance plan. If I were to put my required 800,000 into a Thai bank deposit and contribute my health insurance premium to that account (self insuring myself) here is the result...

If you start with $25,000.00 in a money market account earning a 2.500% interest rate, compounded monthly, and make $150.00 deposits on a monthly basis, after 10 Years your money market account will have grown to $52,518.08 -- of which $43,000.00 is the total of your beginning balance plus deposits, and $9,518.08 is the total interest earnings.

https://www.lhbank.co.th/Promotion/Detail/Deposit_Promotions-บัญชีเงินฝากประจำพิเศษ_25_เดือน/2/56

[Tounge Thaied]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:03 AM, Suradit69 said:

One wonders over what period of time the Baht 65,000 deposits per month need to be shown. In the past they seemed to be only interested in seeing banking history for the three months prior to applying for an extension. 

Time to use your 800,000 baht wisely. If your like me, I pay $1500.00 per year for a health insurance plan. If I were to put my required 800,000 into a Thai bank deposit and contribute my health insurance premium to that account (self insuring myself) here is the result...

If you start with $25,000.00 in a money market account earning a 2.500% interest rate, compounded monthly, and make $150.00 deposits on a monthly basis, after 10 Years your money market account will have grown to $52,518.08 -- of which $43,000.00 is the total of your beginning balance plus deposits, and $9,518.08 is the total interest earnings.

https://www.lhbank.co.th/Promotion/Detail/Deposit_Promotions-บัญชีเงินฝากประจำพิเศษ_25_เดือน/2/56

[Tounge Thaied]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:08 AM, garyk said:

If from America you could of invested that money and it would be paying you a great dividend? Even a crummy fund would pay you some good dividends!

Time to use your 800,000 baht wisely. If your like me, I pay $1500.00 per year for a health insurance plan. If I were to put my required 800,000 into a Thai bank deposit and contribute my health insurance premium to that account (self insuring myself) here is the result...

If you start with $25,000.00 in a money market account earning a 2.500% interest rate, compounded monthly, and make $150.00 deposits on a monthly basis, after 10 Years your money market account will have grown to $52,518.08 -- of which $43,000.00 is the total of your beginning balance plus deposits, and $9,518.08 is the total interest earnings.

https://www.lhbank.co.th/Promotion/Detail/Deposit_Promotions-บัญชีเงินฝากประจำพิเศษ_25_เดือน/2/56

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

<deleted> are you talking about. That is direct evidence. 

Direct evidence would be credible reports from members who have been granted a one-year retirement or marriage extension with proof of finances based on income without the embassy letter.

 

@Tounge Thaied please read the following topic and post there after you get your extension based on income without the embassy letter. Thank you.

 

 

 

[jimn]

9 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Right. Things have already changed and the information I provided is directly from the Thai Immigration Bureau indicating the CURRENT rules. So yes applications are still currently being accepted at the states rules. Currently you must provide evidence of the relevant income or stated amounts as stated. That is current requirements... and yes this can change again at anytime. 

As a recent contributor to this thread I can see that you are totally naive about what happens in really. If you had read even a fraction of the numerous posts on numerous threads you would know. The fact is that yes the USA/British embassy and the section from Thai Immigration state that you only need to prove 65k income to obtain a retirement extension. In practice this is impossible without an embassy letter. There has not been 1 poster who has stated that a successful application has been made without one. I suggest you bring yourself up to speed before trying to contest these facts. You are wrong I am afraid.

[jimn]

7 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Time to use your 800,000 baht wisely. If your like me, I pay $1500.00 per year for a health insurance plan. If I were to put my required 800,000 into a Thai bank deposit and contribute my health insurance premium to that account (self insuring myself) here is the result...

If you start with $25,000.00 in a money market account earning a 2.500% interest rate, compounded monthly, and make $150.00 deposits on a monthly basis, after 10 Years your money market account will have grown to $52,518.08 -- of which $43,000.00 is the total of your beginning balance plus deposits, and $9,518.08 is the total interest earnings.

https://www.lhbank.co.th/Promotion/Detail/Deposit_Promotions-บัญชีเงินฝากประจำพิเศษ_25_เดือน/2/56

Please learn how to post. You keep posting the same information 2 or 3 times