Trump hardens stance on Mexico border, says 15,000 troops could be sent

[billd766]

17 minutes ago, Credo said:

And this is going to work out so well:

 

Texas hunters who accidentally shot each other blamed undocumented immigrants, police reveal

A hunting guide and his client accidentally shot each other and then blamed it on undocumented migrants, police in the US have said.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-hunters-blamed-immigrants-after-accidentally-shooting-each-other-a7591471.html

Darwinism is alive and well in Texas and long may it continue.

[bristolboy]

22 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

In otherwords, legislation and appropriations. Thats fine, wasnt there already an attempt to get a bill passed? Didnt get very far did it? And isnt there a court decision that eliminates number 6?

 

Regardless, there is too much finger pointing and not enough action. How about this solution: All asylum claims are suspended for a 5 year period until the backlog is cleared up? Or how about limiting asylum cases to situations where one can show political, religious or ethnic persecution, instead of just "my country sucks so let me in"? Or require that asylum cases be subject to an organizational sponsorship that would be responsible for the asylum seeker"? 

 

No matter what one side proposes, the other side will oppose. Thats fine, compromise is the spice of life. Meanwhile, the caravan files suit in Federal Court claiming their "rights" are violated. No wonder the polls show that Immigration is a hot issue.

 

The polls also show that Trump is on the losing side of that issue:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-october-18-2016

[Srikcir]

44 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The polls also show that Trump is on the losing side of that issue:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-october-18-2016

For those who haven't read the link:

[spidermike007]

On 11/2/2018 at 12:43 AM, bristolboy said:

"I’m sick and tired of a president who pretends that a caravan of impoverished refugees is an “invasion” by “unknown Middle Easterners” and “bad thugs” — and whose followers on Fox News pretend the refugees are bringing leprosy and smallpox to the United States. (Smallpox was eliminated about 40 years ago.)

I’m sick and tired of a president who misuses his office to demagogue on immigration — by unnecessarily sending  5,200 troops to the border and by threatening to rescind by executive order the 14th Amendment  guarantee of citizenship to anyone born in the United States."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/sick-and-tired-of-trump-heres-what-to-do/2018/10/31/72d9021e-dd26-11e8-b3f0-62607289efee_story.html?utm_term=.4db4382d40ae&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

Trump is a deranged, unstable, non genius. He is a mutt. A dog. A racist super freak. Lock him up. He deserves prison for a lifetime full of crime. 

[Srikcir]

15 hours ago, Srikcir said:

For those who haven't read the link

Rather than Trump investing in modernizing and/or expanding the current immigration system (more immigration judges, monitoring, humane facilities, work programs, etc.) for processing immigrants/refugees seeking US residency, he has decided instead to spend between $200 million and $300 million to deploy US active duty troops and earlier deployment of National Guard forces to the southern border.

Defense officials have repeatedly emphasized the troops at the border are there to support civil authorities and that they are not expected to come into any contact with migrants.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/politics/southern-border-deployment-cost/index.html

In other words for the $200-300 million price to divert current Department of Defense funds from yet unidentified programs (training, overseas deployments, military acquisitions, etc.?), Trump's troop deployment is a "nothing burger" with a slab of Trump political cheese.

[EVENKEEL]

32 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Rather than Trump investing in modernizing and/or expanding the current immigration system (more immigration judges, monitoring, humane facilities, work programs, etc.) for processing immigrants/refugees seeking US residency, he has decided instead to spend between $200 million and $300 million to deploy US active duty troops and earlier deployment of National Guard forces to the southern border.

Defense officials have repeatedly emphasized the troops at the border are there to support civil authorities and that they are not expected to come into any contact with migrants.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/politics/southern-border-deployment-cost/index.html

In other words for the $200-300 million price to divert current Department of Defense funds from yet unidentified programs (training, overseas deployments, military acquisitions, etc.?), Trump's troop deployment is a "nothing burger" with a slab of Trump political cheese.

The Active Duty troops get a paycheck regardless of what BS job they're doing. DOD has some deep pockets and trying to make sense of it is useless.

[bristolboy]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

The Active Duty troops get a paycheck regardless of what BS job they're doing. DOD has some deep pockets and trying to make sense of it is useless.

They also get their training disrupted. Soldiers nowadays are being continually educated. Disrupting their training for a non-emergency is ridiculous and harmful.

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

They also get their training disrupted. Soldiers nowadays are being continually educated. Disrupting their training for a non-emergency is ridiculous and harmful.

If the day of a soldier is anything like the day of a sailor, they won't be missed and this is also a good training day. And, I've had more than a fair share of experience working with the Military.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

If the day of a soldier is anything like the day of a sailor, they won't be missed and this is also a good training day. And, I've had more than a fair share of experience working with the Military.

Whether they need the training or not.

[Nyezhov]

13 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

If the day of a soldier is anything like the day of a sailor, they won't be missed and this is also a good training day. And, I've had more than a fair share of experience working with the Military.

Practical experience in setting up wire, manning checkpoints, communication protocols, agency coordination, surveillance.......

[BobBKK]

17 hours ago, Srikcir said:

For those who haven't read the link:

No reasonable person would deny someone who is currently living and working a chance to become legal. They should set a zero day and grandfather in those that are there for 1 year or more and then harden up on entry from that date.

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Practical experience in setting up wire, manning checkpoints, communication protocols, agency coordination, surveillance.......

Because that's what they need as determined by..

What lies at the bottom of your assumption about training is what I call the Beetle Bailey mindset. Y Where soldiers spend a lot of time goofing off, or going on marches or peeling potatoes. You clearly haven't got a clue what the regimen is like for modern soldiers. They are always in training to learn new skills. They don't need weeks and weeks of doing what they've already learned. You and others like you are being very condescending towards the men and women in the military.

[HAKAPALITA]

Oh that Nasty Mr Trump , i dont like rules. Only PC ones.[emoji85]


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[EVENKEEL]

48 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Because that's what they need as determined by..

What lies at the bottom of your assumption about training is what I call the Beetle Bailey mindset. Y Where soldiers spend a lot of time goofing off, or going on marches or peeling potatoes. You clearly haven't got a clue what the regimen is like for modern soldiers. They are always in training to learn new skills. They don't need weeks and weeks of doing what they've already learned. You and others like you are being very condescending towards the men and women in the military.

I would be interested to know your background with the Military, as you seem so well informed. Good old hands on training like Border Detail is worth more than let's say "Sexual Harassment" training. or other worthless feel good classes they attend.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

I would be interested to know your background with the Military, as you seem so well informed. Good old hands on training like Border Detail is worth more than let's say "Sexual Harassment" training. or other worthless feel good classes they attend.

The question is not whether it's better than sexual harassment training but rather is it more useful than what they would be training for.

As for my qualifications, it's the internet. Anybody can be whatever they want to be. I prefer not to indulge in unverifiable representations of my experience and don't have much use for them when cited by others.

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The question is not whether it's better than sexual harassment training but rather is it more useful than what they would be training for.

As for my qualifications, it's the internet. Anybody can be whatever they want to be. I prefer not to indulge in unverifiable representations of my experience and don't have much use for them when cited by others.

Kind of thought so, I work closely with the USN fleets overseas and see first hand how they operate. It's not pretty.

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Kind of thought so, I work closely with the USN fleets overseas and see first hand how they operate. It's not pretty.

 

When Trump sends the Navy to the border, your input might possibly be relevant.

Or do you think the Rio Grande is navigable by the Navy?

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

 

When Trump sends the Navy to the border, your input might possibly be relevant.

Or do you think the Rio Grande is navigable by the Navy?

My comment was about my experience with the Military, don't think the ground troops are that different. Same mentality. 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

My comment was about my experience with the Military, don't think the ground troops are that different. Same mentality. 

So you know that what's great for troop morale is doing something completely unnecessary that takes them away not just from training but from their families as well. And it's a wise commander-in-chief who deploys the troops that way.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

My comment was about my experience with the Military, don't think the ground troops are that different. Same mentality. 

Exactly. Its been a long time for me but it used to be "train as if you are going to fight", "train like its real".

 

Since presumably, the rules of engagement at the border will be very strict, the Army will be doing real life things that will serve as training for the days when they are called in for Disaster Relief or Riot Control to name two scenarios. The Navy has similiar scenarios, does it not? The loading and unloading of cargo (such as bottled water).  Perimeter security around temporary installations. Distribution of supplies. Construction of temporary encampments. Field services. Night observations. Agency coordination. Training of agencies. Logistical support of civilian authorities. Traffic control.

 

Real life deployments are the best training as I am sure you know.

[Srikcir]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:26 AM, webfact said:

Before Trump's comments, U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis on Wednesday rejected criticism that deploying thousands of troops to the border with Mexico was a political stunt.

• The Pentagon is no longer calling the US military mission on the southern border "Operation Faithful Patriot," officials said Wednesday, opting to re-brand President Donald Trump's deployment of more than 8,000 troops as "border support" the day after the 2018 midterm elections.
• Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. Jamie Davis told CNN, "we are not calling it 'Operation Faithful Patriot,' we are calling it 'border support.'"
• official also said it couldn't be denied that the phrase 'Operation Faithful Patriot' had potential political overtones.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/07/politics/pentagon-changes-name-of-mission-at-border/index.html

Mattis feeling a little more independent (which is to say distance the military from Trump politics) from his commander-in-chief after Democrats took control of the House?

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

• The Pentagon is no longer calling the US military mission on the southern border "Operation Faithful Patriot," officials said Wednesday, opting to re-brand President Donald Trump's deployment of more than 8,000 troops as "border support" the day after the 2018 midterm elections.
• Pentagon spokesman, Lt. Col. Jamie Davis told CNN, "we are not calling it 'Operation Faithful Patriot,' we are calling it 'border support.'"
• official also said it couldn't be denied that the phrase 'Operation Faithful Patriot' had potential political overtones.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/07/politics/pentagon-changes-name-of-mission-at-border/index.html

Mattis feeling a little more independent (which is to say distance the military from Trump politics) from his commander-in-chief after Democrats took control of the House?

 

Maybe that. Maybe the fact that Sessions being dismissed makes it less likely Trump will fire him too, this close.

[bristolboy]

On 11/6/2018 at 10:34 AM, HAKAPALITA said:

Nah, yer just another entitled whinger, anything anti  establishment. They got boats on the Grande allready.

Maybe I am what you say, but at least I'm an honest one. Stop making things up. The Navy doesn't have boats on the Rio Grande.. The Navy like all other US armed forces is not allowed to patrol the borders. 

 

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

[bristolboy]

On 11/6/2018 at 11:23 AM, Nyezhov said:

Exactly. Its been a long time for me but it used to be "train as if you are going to fight", "train like its real".

 

Since presumably, the rules of engagement at the border will be very strict, the Army will be doing real life things that will serve as training for the days when they are called in for Disaster Relief or Riot Control to name two scenarios. The Navy has similiar scenarios, does it not? The loading and unloading of cargo (such as bottled water).  Perimeter security around temporary installations. Distribution of supplies. Construction of temporary encampments. Field services. Night observations. Agency coordination. Training of agencies. Logistical support of civilian authorities. Traffic control.

 

Real life deployments are the best training as I am sure you know.

ANd of course, there is no consideration of cost vs. benefit. If the costs of this episode are in line with the costs of previous similar missions, the cost could be 35,000.000 or more depending on how long the misson runs.. If Trump actually goes ahead and ups it to 15,000.000 troops the cost could exceed 100.000.000. 

[attrayant]

On 11/6/2018 at 11:23 AM, Nyezhov said:

Since presumably, the rules of engagement at the border will be very strict[...]

 

Do you really think there's going to be any kind of "engagement" at the border, aside from immigrants applying for asylum/refugee status?

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Do you really think there's going to be any kind of "engagement" at the border, aside from immigrants applying for asylum/refugee status?

Every mission of this sort has Rules of Engagement IIRC that should cover all scenarios that could occur. Whether or not the Rules will come into play cant be predicted

[attrayant]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Every mission of this sort has Rules of Engagement IIRC that should cover all scenarios that could occur.

 

You could have just said contingency plans.  It's the same thing, only funnier because nobody in their right mind would believe the US military has contingency plans for a ragtag bunch of barefoot refugees filtering through Mexico to approach border crossing checkpoints.

[Nyezhov]

6 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

You could have just said contingency plans.  It's the same thing, only funnier because nobody in their right mind would believe the US military has contingency plans for a ragtag bunch of barefoot refugees filtering through Mexico to approach border crossing checkpoints.

I think is more than "contingency plans", and perhaps there is more than just a ragtag bunch of barefoot refugees. You and I surely dont know what there is. But iM sure ICE, the BP, DHS and the military have a better idea and their planning will reflect it.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

I think is more than "contingency plans", and perhaps there is more than just a ragtag bunch of barefoot refugees. You and I surely dont know what there is. But iM sure ICE, the BP, DHS and the military have a better idea and their planning will reflect it.

This from the guy who's always complaining about trusting the authorities now asks us to trust the authorities. I guess when you've got nothing you can always resort to claiming that there is confidential and classified info. It's a great way not to be held accountable since there's no way of disproving it. Res Ipsa Loquitur.

Edited November 8, 2018 by bristolboy