Thai army paid much, much more for same helo used by King power CEO

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, Topdoc said:

But if you read the article it says" A military-outfitted AW139 helicopter, the same model bought by the Thai army, reportedly sold for about 348 million baht apiece in 2013, according to Aviation International News. 

 

So, the question remains, why did they pay 675 million to 737 million baht for each one?

When you start adding the package together with specialist servicing instructions, cart loads of parts, possibly spare power units, spare rotorary wings, tools, plus lots of things that may be 'one off' specialist designs by the military for their requirements plus spares for those parts, windows made to requirements and not plexiglass for civilian use, pilot training as part of the package double the price doesn't look that far off the mark.

Plus 2013 was 5 years ago.

[watcharacters]

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Maybe the ones the military bought work properly?

 

Doesn't quite sound like it if this is accurate, 

 

"Equally interesting is that of the 12 bought, between 2012 and 2017, only 5 are still working"

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Three times the price?

 

Compare a BTCC car to the model you, me or tom dick and harry can buy for 30,000 pounds in UK. The BTCC unit is around 250,000 pounds.

[sweatalot]

2 hours ago, Hank Gunn said:

No, he just stood out because he was an outsider relative to the "old guard"/established elite in Bangkok. Also, while the "power establishment" have used, and continue to use the army to maintain their power, Thaksin, with his police connections, would have cut them out of the pig trough as well.

So he was the master copier, may be even better and spreading corruption to more areas like a cancer.  Doesn't make him any better.

Edited November 1, 2018 by sweatalot

[Hank Gunn]

19 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

So he was the master copier, may be even better and spreading corruption to more areas like a cancer.  Doesn't make him any better.

And where have I said he was any better than the past and current lot. I in fact said that he was trying to take "the trough" for himself, so he's just as corrupt as anyone who's preceded him and who he preceded.

 

What I have a problem with, is those who think he is somehow worse than his predecessors and those that followed, in order to somehow make this current lot somehow more palatable. He wasn't; just different in that he was trying to move "the trough" north, outside of its traditional location in Bangkok.

[kannot]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

Why does a Jaguar car cost a lot more in Thailand than it does in the UK ?

 

Cuz Premchai shot them all and now theres  none left??  oooops my bad  that was a Panther

Edited November 1, 2018 by kannot

[mark131v]

4 hours ago, Topdoc said:

But if you read the article it says" A military-outfitted AW139 helicopter, the same model bought by the Thai army, reportedly sold for about 348 million baht apiece in 2013, according to Aviation International News. 

 

So, the question remains, why did they pay 675 million to 737 million baht for each one?

Shhh!!!

 

Clearly never paid for a parts package either seeing as over 50% are unservicable and are knackered already...

 

My moneys on the regular Thai procurement pattern that involves a teeny weeny bit of smoke and mirrors and the odd brown envelope, easy peasy when you are completely unaccountable.......

 

 

[Rc2702]

Pretty sure they should pay more. I imagine the terms are a nightmare too. Every government deal is always more due to the terms.

[deandeans]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Why does a Jaguar car cost a lot more in Thailand than it does in the UK ?

 

tax tax and more tax, richest you know who in world lol

[deandeans]

6 hours ago, Thian said:

Is a Ferrari/Lambourghini from Italy the same price in LOS as in Italy? Guess not..

no but singha beer is cheaper abroad than in thailand

[Kinnock]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

Because military helicopters have a lot more dedicated and specialist equipment that is fitted after the basic airframe is bought. Different radar, plating, rocket pods, gun control systems, anti-missile flare launchers, military radio systems bla bla bla.

...... and don't forget the stealth brown envelope pod.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

Because military helicopters have a lot more dedicated and specialist equipment that is fitted after the basic airframe is bought. Different radar, plating, rocket pods, gun control systems, anti-missile flare launchers, military radio systems bla bla bla.

 

If you read the full article, you'd see that it also includes some different cost comparisons than looking at the King Power guy's civilian model. Deeper down in the article, it quotes prices for military versions of similar models in past years that were sold for much less, about half, vs. what the Thai military supposedly paid.

 

The article says the Thai military spent in the high 600 millions to low 700 millions, and yet:

 

Quote

Price information available online indicates the military spent well over market price for the aircraft. A military-outfitted AW139 helicopter, the same model bought by the Thai army, reportedly sold for about 348 million baht apiece in 2013, according to Aviation International News. AW149s, a more recent model bought by the Thai army last year, sell on the market for about 480 million baht each, according to an aviation research company.

 

Perhaps the military here got the special Thai version that's designed to stop functioning after a few years and go out of service and unable to be repaired....

 

Quote

He said that he’s heard only five of the original 12 choppers bought remain functional, with the rest under repair.

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Topdoc]

This is interesting:

 

"Corruption Watch UK has investigated corruption allegations surrounding AgustaWestland (now renamed to Leonardo Helicopters) in a number of countries, including India, South Korea and Panama. Our research shows that the company has been accused of making payments worth tens of millions to intermediaries to win contracts."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/08/arms-trade-corruption-claims-uk-italy-india-agustawestland  

[a977]

11 hours ago, overherebc said:

Because military helicopters have a lot more dedicated and specialist equipment that is fitted after the basic airframe is bought. Different radar, plating, rocket pods, gun control systems, anti-missile flare launchers, military radio systems bla bla bla.

And I believe in the tooth fairy!!!!!!!!!!! You just have to look at what a certain person wears to know why duh!

[Aussie999]

12 hours ago, Thian said:

Well, so why can a heli not cost 3 times more? It's importtax, also the new buses for BKK had to pay that. ( so they all went back to China).

Government departments do not pay taxes.

[Destiny1990]

12 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Maybe the ones the military bought work properly?

Seems to be of a similar quality Since 7 of the 12 are unable to fly.

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

Because it's imported.  Automatically double(s) the price.  Mini Cooper in LOS is 3 times more expensive than it is in the states.  The new Ford Mustang now available is 2.5 times more than the price in the states. 

But that does not really answer why? Protection of the local car industry? Ignorance of how the economy works? (60% duty, x five times as many cars equals more revenue for the government, many more jobs, and a stronger economy) huge payoffs to the guys in charge, or just a staggering lack of vision? 

 

As far as the helicopter goes, look at the Brazilian government, and the Petrobras scandal. Everyone was overpaying for everything, and we all know where that money was going. Though this administration is considered straight, and some regard them as soldiers in the fight against corruption, that is believed only by some of the uneducated populace, and many of us know that is anything but the truth. Desperation for power, or more money?

[josephbloggs]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

But that does not really answer why? Protection of the local car industry? Ignorance of how the economy works? (60% duty, x five times as many cars equals more revenue for the government, many more jobs, and a stronger economy) huge payoffs to the guys in charge, or just a staggering lack of vision? 

 

 

An d 5 x more cars on the road would be a good thing, right?

 

It's no different than Singapore.  I am sure you also think Singapore has a staggering lack of vision too?

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

An d 5 x more cars on the road would be a good thing, right?

 

It's no different than Singapore.  I am sure you also think Singapore has a staggering lack of vision too?

No. You totally misunderstood my post. Perhaps five times as many imported cars, instead of the stunning lack of selection of domestic cars available in Thailand. Lower domestic car sales, vs. more imported cars. Same, same, when one factors in duty, etc. 

[cms22]

Oh dear. I am ex-military and know a thing or two about helicopters. These claims, are (I'm afraid) a very sad indictment of intelligence here.

 

Does anyone actually realise the systems on a military helicopter are 100% different to those installed on a commercial platform?

Does anyone actually realise that when you buy a commercial platform and a military platform of the same design the only thing that is similar is the chassis?

 

My god, the lack of understanding on this issue is breath taking.

Cheers! 

[okscoops812]

This is common not just in Thailand but other governments as well. Military and police aircraft are not configured the same as civilian. If aircraft companies have to bid on aircraft they often bid higher knowing a government is involved, often due to difficulties in dealing with a government. Warranties and maintenance agreements might be different for each aircraft. Sometimes the cost of training pilots or crewmembers is added in the total cost. There could be many reasons why a price is higher.

[mikebell]

Might explain why Prawit has banked 5 million a year for the last 6 years on a salary of under a million?

[TheFishman1]

The Government doesn’t have to pay taxes TIT

[Dibbler]

 the military paid nearly three times as much as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha did for the same type of chopper that he lost his life in. And Srisuwan, a persistent good-governance petitioner, wanted to know why.
 
I think we all know why, the real question is WHO ?

You’re implying the biggest scam artists in this country are not Nigerian??


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[AlQaholic]

The same Italian company is involved in a corruption scandal involving two choppers sold to the Swedish coast guard.

[rosst]

14 hours ago, overherebc said:

Because military helicopters have a lot more dedicated and specialist equipment that is fitted after the basic airframe is bought. Different radar, plating, rocket pods, gun control systems, anti-missile flare launchers, military radio systems bla bla bla.

Exactly, I was looking for a post like this, not rocket science. 

[meinphuket]

Its an ingrained, endemic thing to feed from the public trough...

[Celer et Audax]

Because it's imported.  Automatically double(s) the price.  Mini Cooper in LOS is 3 times more expensive than it is in the states.  The new Ford Mustang now available is 2.5 times more than the price in the states. 

The Mini Cooper is built in Thailand at the BMW Factory in Rayong


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[Thian]

2 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

Government departments do not pay taxes.

So were those new buses not for the transport department? They had to pay taxes for the buses which they refused...

[JAG]

9 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

The buses didn't went back to China, they are stored at many different places all over the country.

 

I have discovered quite a few of those locations already.

Still stored? Must be getting on for a year since they were delivered (and paid for presumably).

 

Astonishing.