Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

My friend Gloating at other visas misfortunes has been a sport here on Thai Visa ever sense the 30 day visa runners were taken out behind the wood shed for a good trashing by loads of self righteous members here......

Yes.  It is almost as if Thai Immigration has paid-people here, to try to convince everyone that the decent folks being thrown under the bus deserve it. 

• The 30-day guys were bad-guys who must go away.  Nevermind that spate of empty condos and business-closures.
• Those on Ed-visas were bad - but now they just pay 3K baht every 3 mo for "hassle-free" extensions, which somehow makes them ok with local-immigration
• The people who can afford multiple visa-trips and extensions for Tourist Visas are "exploiting loopholes" by following the laws the Thais wrote and control, and should be captured at the airports and interrogated like foreign-spies, and some denied-entry on made-up grounds (more businesses close)

And now, people using income-letters are really just a pack of lying-scoundrels - demonstrated by the fact they are "complaining here" - and undoubtedly on the verge of going to a hospital-ICU pennyless, to drain money from hapless Thai taxpayers.

Edited November 2, 2018 by JackThompson

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What do you expect, he's almost a Norwegian.

King Alfred wouldn't have put up with this, I was glad to see the back of those horned helmets.

[giddyup]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

dunno, but this seems a bit like a storm in the basin for me

 

must be possible to device similar wording re income

 

And how would that be verifying your income?

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

schadenfreude, the only true joy

 

don't like that one soalbundy

 

aye but it's true, 'it takes your enemies to harm you but your friends to bring you the news'

[glen1]

Ok, so does this mean the embassy letter is no longer required? Acceptable? Obtainable?

The notification posted says 'Phuket', what of Bangkok?

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, garzhe said:

However, if your Thai resident I believe this will become taxable in Thailand if your over the tax threshold.   Thats no doubt the reason for all this. With the UK there is a reciprocal tax agreement with Thailand I believe. Unfortunately I think many UK citizens living in Thailand have not claimed Non residence with the UK so will not be able to reclaim any UK tax paid through the double taxation agreement. If they claim UK non residence there are other issues, frozen pension, UK national health entitlement etc etc

"Those who earn less than 150,000 Thai Baht are exempt from income tax.

Anything over this amount and less than THB 500,000 is taxed at 10%.

Between this amount and 1 million THB the tax rate is 20%.

Over this amount and below 4 million THB is taxed at 30%."

 

So married guys importing just the right amount of money will pay 10%.

Retired guys get hit for 20%

 

But if you homeland has a reciprocal tax agreement with Thailand, it is up to you to decide where you want to pay your taxes.

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, hvdkerkh said:

 

 

The Dutch embassy actually can verify the documents by contacting the tax office.

 

see https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl/documenten/publicaties/2017/05/11/qa-visumondersteuningsbrief

 

what is it that the Thais want

 

history of income

income this week

future income?

 

tax office can help with history,

can not help with this week

can not help with future

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

aye but it's true, 'it takes your enemies to harm you but your friends to bring you the news'

Every one a gem.

[merijn]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I supplied the official pension document from the Government Pension office and they would be hard to fake...……..the point is that even with the safest and best documents/statements in the world, the Embassies do not want to take the responsibility of proving/certifying that the applicant is getting what is stated on those docs.

 

I see all Embassies moving that way eventually.

 

Over and out for sure now!!!!!!!!

The Dutch embassy only accepts income papers which are or can be verified by the tax department.

They are accepting responsibility for the correctness of their income certificate.

Also the embassies of German and Swiss embassy have no plans to change their procedure as they also require strict documentation before they supply the certificate.

Therefore people from those countries can use the embassy income certificate as normal.

[giddyup]

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

what is it that the Thais want

 

history of income

income this week

future income?

 

tax office can help with history,

can not help with this week

can not help with future

 

It seem you haven't grasped the real picture.

[garzhe]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sorry mate, if the Dutch go on on this path funneling it through the tax office then they can be sure about the documents (official tax documents are impossible to fake) plus the tax office does the checking. So I see solutions for innovative countries.

 

You have to understand in the Dutch tax system we already have an income statement that we can ask for. The tax office will then send this statement and that can be used for checks. So that would mean that the Dutch embassay would only have to deal with one document if they want. 

 

Anyway I have no bone in this fight as i have always used money in a Thai bank when i was on marriage visa. 

 

See post above.. seems the Dutch actually do check it with the tax office when they are not sure. I just read the Dutch letter and they do mention checks with the tax office. So totally different from other counrties.

Its not about verification. They want your monthly pension paid in to a Thai bank. You then come in to the Thai tax system and will be taxed subject to you being over the tax threshold

[fforest1]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes.  It is almost as if Thai Immigration has paid-people here, to try to convince everyone that the decent folks being thrown under the bus deserve it. 

• The 30-day guys were bad-guys who must go away.  Nevermind that spate of empty condos and business-closures.
• Those on Ed-visas were bad - but now they just pay 3K baht every 3 mo for "hassle-free" extensions, which somehow makes them ok with local-immigration
• The people who can afford multiple visa-trips and extensions for Tourist Visas are "exploiting loopholes" by following the laws the Thais wrote and control, and should be captured at the airports and interrogated like foreign-spies, and some denied-entry on made-up grounds (more businesses close)

And now, people using income-letters are really just a pack of lying-scoundrels - demonstrated by the fact they are "complaining here" - and undoubtedly on the verge of going to a hospital-ICU pennyless, to drain money from hapless Thai taxpayers.

LOL.????????.????.....This post is right on the money......I would like to put this post in a frame and send it to all members of Thai Visa....

Edited November 2, 2018 by fforest1

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

And how would that be verifying your income?

it doesn't verify income but it produces text that satisfies Thai authorities

and which does not commit the embassy

 

 

[ukrules]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes.  It is almost as if Thai Immigration has paid-people here, to try to convince everyone that the decent folks being thrown under the bus deserve it. 

• The 30-day guys were bad-guys who must go away.  Nevermind that spate of empty condos and business-closures.
• Those on Ed-visas were bad - but now they just pay 3K baht every 3 mo for "hassle-free" extensions, which somehow makes them ok with local-immigration
• The people who can afford multiple visa-trips and extensions for Tourist Visas are "exploiting loopholes" by following the laws the Thais wrote and control, and should be captured at the airports and interrogated like foreign-spies, and some denied-entry on made-up grounds (more businesses close)

And now, people using income-letters are really just a pack of lying-scoundrels - demonstrated by the fact they are "complaining here" - and undoubtedly on the verge of going to a hospital-ICU pennyless, to drain money from hapless Thai taxpayers.

 

If they continue down this road there won't be many of us left in the end.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

it doesn't verify income but it produces text that satisfies Thai authorities

and which does not commit the embassy

 

 

That was already in place, it didn't satisfy Thai authority obviously.The embassies couldn't lie and say they could verify income, all they could do was witness and sign your declaration.

Edited November 2, 2018 by giddyup

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, hvdkerkh said:

 

 

The Dutch embassy actually can verify the documents by contacting the tax office.

 

see https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl/documenten/publicaties/2017/05/11/qa-visumondersteuningsbrief

 

Holland 2 Main Countries 0

 

Two shocking own goals by giddyup and zydeco there and it's not even half-time yet...

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, giddyup said:

It's designed to force expats to actually prove they can meet the financial criteria instead of signing a possibly fraudulent stat dec.

If an expat is contributing to the economy and being a good citizen perhaps even taking a Thai family out of poverty, what does it matter if there is a bit of fraud involved.

Don't tell me there is not lots of fraud involved amongst the police and politicians themselves. None of

them are better human beings than we are.

[garzhe]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

"Those who earn less than 150,000 Thai Baht are exempt from income tax.

Anything over this amount and less than THB 500,000 is taxed at 10%.

Between this amount and 1 million THB the tax rate is 20%.

Over this amount and below 4 million THB is taxed at 30%."

 

So married guys importing just the right amount of money will pay 10%.

Retired guys get hit for 20%

 

But if you homeland has a reciprocal tax agreement with Thailand, it is up to you to decide where you want to pay your taxes.

Actually the 2017/18 rates are not quite that bad

Income Band	Rate	Notes
0  – 150,000	Exempt
150,000 – 300,000	5%	New Tax Rate
300,000 – 500,000	10%
500,000 – 750,000	15%	New Tax Rate
750,000 – 1,000,000	20%
1,000,000 – 2,000,000	25%	New Tax Rate
2,000,000 – 4,000,000	30%
4,000,001 and Up	35%	New Tax Rate (Reduced from 37%)

[xtrnuno41]

Governments can just easy with your social security number see what ever is happening with you financially.

THey know all about you when in computer systems. 

THey can also make all your income numbers available to foreign countries on a seperate server, so foreign authorities can just see in a blink, what youve got. No more paper, just digitally. Proces in for instance Thailand could be more easy then, but of course governments just want it to make it difficult, nasty, ugly for you. Yours, mine, any government, just a bunch of freeloaders not willing to help you anyway, anyhow. Total control and making it hard for you.

Im aware there are people who abuse the system, but therefor others have to suffer?  

I wonder what is the game behind this all. 

[Chriss77]

doesn't surprise me, Australia rarely thinks for itself, it generally licks the arse of the USA and follows blindly.

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

If an expat is contributing to the economy and being a good citizen perhaps even taking a Thai family out of poverty, what does it matter if there is a bit of fraud involved.

Don't tell me there is not lots of fraud involved amongst the police and politicians themselves. None of

them are better human beings than we are.

I doubt if one Thai politician has give the consequences a moments thought.

[merijn]

8 minutes ago, garzhe said:

Its not about verification. They want your monthly pension paid in to a Thai bank. You then come in to the Thai tax system and will be taxed subject to you being over the tax threshold

Not correct. If you have the accepted embassy certificate the money does not have to paid into a Thai bank account on a monthly basis.

PHUKET Immigration does not require that. I don't know for other immigration offices.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Chriss77 said:

doesn't surprise me, Australia rarely thinks for itself, it generally licks the arse of the USA and follows blindly.

 

Was the US blindly following the Brits?

[KiChakayan]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

A "stabilize and send home" type medical-insurance scheme for all foreigners as a pre-requisite for a "permitted-stay" stamp would be the only way to end that potential liability.

Another dreadful idea, implemented in Non O-X visa. Many of us have international expat health cover, so why would be forced to buy another worthless insurance? To give an idea, my Cigna UN cover has not limit, but I pay 10% of OPD, the first 350 Swiss Francs every year, my yearly max contribution being 1000 Francs. You cannot expect a Thai IO to understand that as it doesn't fit into the lousy Thai pattern of 100% refund with a max coverage?

[melvinmelvin]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It seem you haven't grasped the real picture.

am pretty good with pictures and graphs,

not so clever with impertinent posters

 

 

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

what is it that the Thais want

 

history of income

income this week

future income?

 

tax office can help with history,

can not help with this week

can not help with future

 

Well, based on their previous happiness with proof of last years income somewhere else on the planet, the historical income was covered. With the income letters now being kicked into touch its total irrelevance has just become officially acknowledged.

 

With a lump sum sitting in the bank for 2 or 3 months already, this week looks good as well.

 

With evidence of a few months of regular income, I reckon that's good enough for the future as they see it.

 

Can I help you with anything else?

[garzhe]

2 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Governments can just easy with your social security number see what ever is happening with you financially.

THey know all about you when in computer systems. 

THey can also make all your income numbers available to foreign countries on a seperate server, so foreign authorities can just see in a blink, what youve got. No more paper, just digitally. Proces in for instance Thailand could be more easy then, but of course governments just want it to make it difficult, nasty, ugly for you. Yours, mine, any government, just a bunch of freeloaders not willing to help you anyway, anyhow. Total control and making it hard for you.

Im aware there are people who abuse the system, but therefor others have to suffer?  

I wonder what is the game behind this all. 

The game has to be taxation. I think your referring to the CRS (common Reporting Standard) Where countries interchange assets of citizens. Thailand is not party to the CRS so no information is exchanged with other countries. So dont worry your Thai bank accounts are safe from prying eyes unless perhaps your a billionaire.

[sambum]

1 minute ago, merijn said:

Not correct. If you have the accepted embassy certificate the money does not have to paid into a Thai bank account on a monthly basis.

PHUKET Immigration does not require that. I don't know for other immigration offices.

Are you reading the posts on this, and other threads or just wanting to see you comment in print?

 

"accepted embassy certificates" ARE BEING DISCONTINUED!!!

[stropper]

8 hours ago, giddyup said:

It's designed to force expats to actually prove they can meet the financial criteria instead of signing a possibly fraudulent stat dec.

exactly ! you are spot on . the time of the people who should not be here is over, i know aussies diskised as tourist police here in udon thani with nothing, get rid of them !

Edited November 2, 2018 by stropper
spelling

[garzhe]

6 minutes ago, merijn said:

Not correct. If you have the accepted embassy certificate the money does not have to paid into a Thai bank account on a monthly basis.

PHUKET Immigration does not require that. I don't know for other immigration offices.

But the UK, US and Aus so far will not supply that. Whose idea was that. I dont think the embassy's.