Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[Media1]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Yesterday morning on the Australian Embassy website it stated that Australia's system was different and that there was no plans to change it and this morning on the same website the notice that I posted to start this thread was there. So things changed overnight, so anything can happen at anytime. I have been keeping a check on the Australian website every morning since the UK pulled the pin

A election will rectify this 

[DavisH]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

We aren't propping up the Thai economy, we're just a drop in the bucket. Most of us need them a lot more than they need us.

The real cash is from tourists....come, spend a lot and leave. I think allowing us to live here is more an act of goodwill between countries, rather than any real need for the presence of retirees. 

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I disagree.. countries like the Netherlands you can ask a income statement from the tax office. That one is pretty hard to fake, if they just notarize what is on it its many times safer and harder to cheat as what is done now.

 

You actually have to present evidence at the Dutch embassy and it does get checked. hard to forge those things (everything can be forged of course but not by everyone).

 

I said it before just make pensioners who want a statement file tax in their home country. Let the embassy translate and notarize these forms and your done. The tax office does all the checking (that is what they are for).

 

It can be done for sure IF countries want it.

 

Withdrawn by poster, had misread your post Rob.

Edited November 2, 2018 by chrisinth

[david555]

7 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The thing is that anyone who is on a government pension can prove their income quite easy and it is also easy for the embassies to be able to verify government pensions. It would not take much for each of the embassies to have access to the amounts that are paid for the different government pensions. I can print mine out of official Australian government letterhead and it tells the type of pension that I am receiving so how hard would it be for the embassies to have a list of the different government pensions to check.

i know , go tell them at your embassy …..and see how quick they will do that …. I think even  a multiple peoples sit in in front wont help ...at ANY embassy  ????

Edited November 2, 2018 by david555

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, Gold Star said:

FWIW, I just got my income letter from my affidavit at the Canadian Embassy on Oct 23 last week, as my Visa renewal is in January 2019. I asked if there were plans for Canada to stop the service, and the lady said no, it is business as usual. At least there were no plans to scrap the service as of yet.

 

I think it's fair to say that now Australia has joined the UK and US in refusing to issue income letters, it's likely to spread to other countries ☹️.

[Media1]

4 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Why not make it that all people entering Thailand have to demonstrate proof of insurance?

 

I for one have never been asked wrtthe 20,000 baht on entry.

 

Same with undesirables. 

Put an ankle tag in them.

 

But still let them spend their money here.

Speak for yourself not us lol. Insurance lol. 

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

How about they just set up a good way to check the income so they can keep on going giving those statement instead of taking the easy way out ?

 

Other countries seem to check data, the Dutch do and others too according to Glegolo (he is not Dutch). So instead of blowing up the system why not see if an other system can be set up.

 

I agree with them that the current system is faulty.. but to blow it up without trying to find replacement first is bad.

For Australians there is no easy way for the embassy to verify income, due to privacy laws for one. Some people might have a very straightforward income stream and others much more diverse, which might take many man hours to verify. I would not be surprised to see all embassies follow suit, otherwise there might be a case of discrimination.

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Nope. How about the more obvious reason. They only want foreigners with money. They don't want poor foreigners. They already have enough poor people in the Kingdom, without adding to them. Seems more likely than your explanation, eh?

I haven't seen any foreigners begging, but would expect them to be rounded-up and deported if they were.  Even a "poorer" foreigner - a very relative term talking about "under 65K Baht / Mo" - is putting foreign-capital into the Thai economy.

 

43 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

I suspect this has all come about from all the publicity surrounding foreigners without insurance and not being able to pay hospitals what they owe.

If that is the concern, just require "stabilize and send-home" insurance for all foreigners, provided at govt-hospitals.

 

I suspect this all came about when some (?) became angry about how those "pesky embassy-letters" were cutting into potential agent-laundered corruption money.  The embassies would not even cut them in on the fee they charged - The Nerve!! 

[soalbundy]

12 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I am talking about the police order that says they will accept proof of qualifying monthly income in a Thai bank account in the name of the applicant.

 

AFAIK, the embassy letters/affidavits/stat decs were only needed to prove a qualifying income that was NOT domiciled in a Thai bank account, ie. funds or income in an overseas bank.

 

Why would one need a letter from your embassy to verify locally banked income?

Why do pubs have car parks ?

[Psychic]

So regarding timing on this.

A letter from the embassy is good for 6 months.

 

A friend told me immigration allowed him to renew his extension 45 days before expiry.

If that's true would a letter issued early January be available to renew any extension that was due before about mid-August?

 

Which kind of gets me to this point.

 

The total arbitrariness of this change.

 

If immigration will no longer accept these income letters then they should have announced that they would only be accepted until the end of next year. That would only be a few more months.

 

First of all, because if monthly bank deposits are going to be proof, I assume you're going to need 12 months of them.

 

But you get the entire year to meet the requirements.

 

That is nowhole late for anyone with an extension date beyond August next year.

 

I mention this because about half my spending here is on a foreign credit card.

 

So I don't bring the cash requirements into the country. But that would change with these changes.

 

I will go to putting the lump sum in a Thai bank if I have to.

 

But the silly "seasoning" provision means I have to know the rules of the game in advance.

 

If they will accept less than 12 months of deposits on a bank statement for which there is no provision under current law that is one route.

 

If not, then I need to make a lump sum deposit. But I need 4 months notice.

 

As usual this whole thing is being run like a gong show.

 

There has been no official statement from Thailand and people are completely confused about their options for living their lives.

 

At least TV readers are informed.

 

I feel badly for the poor expat who wonders into his embassy in February and gets told the method he has been using for years is no longer acceptable.

 

No, they didn't change the law. They just made it unworkable.

[giddyup]

12 minutes ago, Media1 said:

It's designed to make it as difficult as possible because the current non Englsh speaking watch brigade don't speak English and don't like farang. China is the future

Does the current brigade all speak Chinese?

[glegolo]

23 minutes ago, jimn said:

Your self serving attitude towards the subject will come back to haunt you when your embassy declares they will no longer issue letters. I am assuming you are from the Netherlands. Just wait and see all the others will follow now that the main countries have declared their intentions.

You assume wrong my friend, I am from Sweden, one of the main countries by the way..

 

glegolo

[ukrules]

19 minutes ago, Gold Star said:

FWIW, I just got my income letter from my affidavit at the Canadian Embassy on Oct 23 last week, as my Visa renewal is in January 2019. I asked if there were plans for Canada to stop the service, and the lady said no, it is business as usual. At least there were no plans to scrap the service as of yet.

 

Yep, this is exactly what the Americans and Australians have been saying over the past few weeks.

 

Many people got in touch with them and had it all confirmed so their own little bubble was not burst. Look at how that turned out.

 

[cnx355]

8 years ago, when I was using Jomtien Immigration for retirement extension, I had  letter of income from  Canadian Embassy , but Immigration asked to see a copy of the last 3 month of my saving account to check I was transferring money in Thailand. Another Canadian friends kept copies of all ATM withdrawals to show Immigration.  It is really easy if they want to....But what is the intention of immigration now ?

[melvinmelvin]

7 hours ago, TSF said:

Looks like all farang living in Thailand on annual extensions will now need to have the 400K & 800K THB in a Thai bank account in order to continue living in Thailand. Now, just wait and see if next year they'll double the required sums. I've been expecting it for a couple years now, but it'll happen because they want you gone.

why would they want somebody with 800 000 in the bank

and monthly expenditure of say 80-120 000 gone?

 

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

Yep, this is exactly what the Americans and Australians have been saying over the past few weeks.

I admit it. You were right, and I was wrong about the US embassy. We got played.

[MaxYakov]

40 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

Not a problem for any farang here with money due to 800k being easy enough.

Generally, i am not sure what is so great about Thailand anyway, so will probably bugger off next June anyway, and take my money with me.  ha ha

go somewhere else where there is some sort of intelligence.

Yes, I know, shut the door on my way out.........chortle, chortle.

 

No, the proper saying is: Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out (according to my Aussie X, anyway).  ????

Edited November 2, 2018 by MaxYakov

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I admit it. You were right, and I was wrong about the US embassy. We got played.

And so did the Australians

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

You assume wrong my friend, I am from Sweden, one of the main countries by the way..

 

glegolo

Main countries for what?

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, glegolo said:

When you gives the empression that you are confirming somthing, that is a stunt

 

glegolo

Yes it is a play on words and that is IMO why it has been stopped.

 

They are confirming that they have SEEN DOCUMENTS which state something, not that the info on those documents is correct.

 

Anyway my inbox has been clogged up with the same replies and rebuttals as other similar threads...……….so it's goodnight from me, and goodnight from him.

Edited November 2, 2018 by xylophone

[robblok]

23 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Ah, so you're talking about an "unvarified statement."  The Dutch embassy does not actually contact the tax office themselves and verify the document they received is not counterfeit.  I'd say get ready for your letters to be cancelled soon, too.

Its indeed unverified but a few steps up from no checks of other countries. I am sure i could have a wager with you about this to see who is right ? Your not to far away from me loser pays diner ?

 

The Dutch embassy requests tax documents.. these are hard to fake. (so its many times better then the UK US OZ way) But no they cannot check the income direct themselves that would be a major violation of privacy

 

I have just once relied on that method after that i just put 400k in the bank for marriage and just skip the whole embassy part. If i reach 50 i will just make sure i got 800k in the bank. 

 

I always got a bank letter from the Thai bank quite easy.

[JackThompson]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

A "stabilize and send home" type medical-insurance scheme for all foreigners as a pre-requisite for a "permitted-stay" stamp would be the only way to end that potential liability.

Looks like a "stabilize and sent him die abroad" to me 

How will people be able to pay hospital in their home country (usually more expensive!) if they are already not able to pay a Thai hospital ?

Not Thailand's problem.  That's the only point of it - to eliminate this potential liability / excuse for demanding we show far more money coming-in than we need to live well here.
 

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I admit it. You were right, and I was wrong about the US embassy. We got played.

Strange that it's all 'anglo' countries that have been kicking the traces and pawing the ground, 'we can't do that' and everybody else just kept quiet and carried on, at least up til now no none English speaking country has upset the apple cart.

[natway09]

Giddyup

You have term  deposits so bring one over here.

If you wish to live here, you need to make some committment 

[zydeco]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its indeed unverified but a few steps up from no checks of other countries.

And THAT is the point. All these letters are being stopped because they cannot be verified.

[fforest1]

6 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I admit it. You were right, and I was wrong about the US embassy. We got played.

Next up New Zealand, Canada,Then time to start on Europe and Russia

[giddyup]

Just now, natway09 said:

Giddyup

You have term  deposits so bring one over here.

If you wish to live here, you need to make some committment 

I already have more than 3 million in a bank here, no need to bring more.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, zydeco said:

And THAT is the point. All these letters are being stopped because they cannot be verified.

Exactly. A few steps up just isn't going to cut it.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Strange that it's all 'anglo' countries that have been kicking the traces and pawing the ground, 'we can't do that' and everybody else just kept quiet and carried on, at least up til now no none English speaking country has upset the apple cart.

I think that is because all those anglo countries use the same system. The other countries did do some checks of documents. The anglo method is the weakest method fraud wise.. the other countries have a little bit stronger system in place (less trusting of their own countrymen) and thus so far have not upset the cart.

 

Anyway I have always just put money in a Thai account to avoid this hassle. 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, zydeco said:

And THAT is the point. All these letters are being stopped because they cannot be verified.

We will see if its not going to cut it.. with the Dutch they ask for documents of the tax office.. that is a HUGE difference and almost impossible to fake. Anyway.. lets wait and see.