Why are expats so bad in Thai?

[andre47]

33 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you've already done lanna and central, now you are in laos land

Khmer could be useful in Prasat, get on with it

 

Not Laos....now he is in Khmer land (Cambodia). Lao is very similar to Isaan language/dialect.

 

[cmsally]

21 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I lived in CM for 3 years with a number of women from Bangkok who all spoke Issan/Lao.  They had no trouble being understood in Chiang Mai and Northern Thailand.  How much of a problem is it?  I remember a few different words , yip baht for 20 and got instead of delat.  Some minor things but never had a large problem communicating like you make it out to be. 

I speak Lanna and central Thai, but find it hard to understand pure Isan / Lao dialects. Mostly for the both to communicate there has to be some central Thai thrown in. Not many people around now who speak pure Lanna.

20bt is still used a lot which is sao baht

[richard_smith237]

This is turning into one of those... 'Do you put N2 in your tires?' threads !!!!! (some will know what I mean)....

 

Really, some guys are having this much difficulty ordering a simple plate of Hiananese style Chicken & Rice ?? - there is only one 'chicken-rice' dish in Thailand under this context. 

 

k̄ĥāwmạn kị̀..... or pronounced 'Khao-man-Kgai'.... If you are getting dark meat when ordering this the reason why is simply - you are eating at a sh!7-hole.

 

This is generally 'street food' sold from a cart or at a shop front - you can see what you are ordering...  its not rocket science to establish whether or not the chicken meat is white breast or not - you can usually see it. 

 

 

I've got to wonder how difficult is the rest life is for some guys... Every day must be a whole new adventure, the trials and tribulations of living in a foreign country for the simple minded or something.... 

 

More so on topic - much of the issues encountered (such as above) are perhaps not one of language, but of common sense.

 

Language can help so much, but common sense in any country is a greater advantage when adopting to and interpreting your surroundings... developing conversational language skills comes a very close second to the essential nature of common sense, but adds a level of 'icing to the cake' with the experience of being in a foreign country that can not be suprased by said commonsense.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tweedle dee]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

I speak Lanna and central Thai, but find it hard to understand pure Isan / Lao dialects. Mostly for the both to communicate there has to be some central Thai thrown in. Not many people around now who speak pure Lanna.

20bt is still used a lot which is sao baht

Try yisip or for total knuckle heads i will spell it yeesip for 20.  WANNA FIGHT !  grrrrrrr.

[melvinmelvin]

32 minutes ago, andre47 said:

Not Laos....now he is in Khmer land (Cambodia). Lao is very similar to Isaan language/dialect.

 

ya ya ya

they speak kinda laos in Surin

 

as I suggested, he should now turn to Kamen

 

 

[cmsally]

34 minutes ago, Tweedle dee said:

Try yisip or for total knuckle heads i will spell it yeesip for 20.  WANNA FIGHT !  grrrrrrr.

yeesip is central thai and sao is lanna

its a pretty good example of how some words can be totally different

long payabahn is hong yah

[andre47]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

ya ya ya

they speak kinda laos in Surin

 

as I suggested, he should now turn to Kamen

No, no Lao. It is Khmer. Lao is similar to Isaan and in Prasat they speak similar to Khmer from Cambodia. 2 very different Languages. Lao/Isaan have some similarities to Thai, Khmer don't have any similarities.

[Bogbrush]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

ya ya ya

they speak kinda laos in Surin

 

as I suggested, he should now turn to Kamen

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

ya ya ya

they speak kinda laos in Surin

 

as I suggested, he should now turn to Kamen

 

 

I’ve found the language part of this thread - as opposed to the chicken breast saga - to be interesting and certainly enlightening, and it’s also interesting what a bit of research can provide..

 

For example, in 2011 the government officially recognized 62 languages existing in Thailand, but for census purposes only 4. The Isan dialect - as mentioned - is a Lao not Thai dialect, apparently originating in the Lan Xang area of the Lao kingdom. Interestingly the Thai alphabet is an abugida script of Khmer origin, so all in all a very mixed bag.

 

Much has been made of various reasons - including intelligence- for not having the ability to absorb Thai. The Thais seem to not be immune, coming 54th out of 56 countries tested for English proficiency; the 2nd lowest in Asia, apparently. Thai IQ ranges between 88 and 109 with an average of 98. FYI, the lowest appears to be in Narathiwat, and the highest in Nonthaburi. The government believes that more iodine in table salt could help, it seems.

 

All in all, a very interesting thread and I’m glad I’ve persevered.

[HAKAPALITA]

If you want a good cringe, listen to ferangs on You Tube Vlogs saying Hello to Thais. Theres a fat Cockney chap whoes dentures rattle about, and he copies a Bar Girl tone.

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, cmsally said:

yeesip is central thai and sao is lanna

its a pretty good example of how some words can be totally different

long payabahn is hong yah

 

Which is loosely transliterated to 'The Medical house'  and 'Medical Room'...  one is perhaps more antiquated and simplistic than the other. 

 

Many European languages have similar words... such as 'Fireworks' is 'Faux d'artifice' (artificial fire)..... 

 

The words are total different but there is a fundamental underlying logic in the majority of cases. 

 

 

 

 

[Tweedle dee]

8 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

If you want a good cringe, listen to ferangs on You Tube Vlogs saying Hello to Thais. Theres a fat Cockney chap whoes dentures rattle about, and he copies a Bar Girl tone.

That prat Kev in Thailand ...cringeworthy at the very least.

[Tweedle dee]

11 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

If you want a good cringe, listen to ferangs on You Tube Vlogs saying Hello to Thais. Theres a fat Cockney chap whoes dentures rattle about, and he copies a Bar Girl tone.

That prat Kev in Thailand ...cringeworthy at the very least.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

yeesip is central thai and sao is lanna

its a pretty good example of how some words can be totally different

long payabahn is hong yah

You are absolutely correct.  It's been 8 years since I've lived in CM.  However I don't think the folks who have discussed the many Thai dialects are the expats who are so bad in Thai. 

[NonthaburiBear]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:59 AM, balo said:

Because Thai is a terrible language to learn , and believe me , I have tried.  And also a different alphabet with weird symbols.  

 

If I had moved to Spain instead and lived there for some years I would have been able to communicate in Spanish in no time. 

I speak a little German, French , and my native language is Norwegian. Which means I can understand and read English, German, French, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish. 

But I have given up on Thai , yes I can order a simple dish and I can count to 100 . Nit noi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

exactly.. i give up read thai alphabet, even tot my girl say koy koy rean roo . I misrable and done, mai pen rai..

[mpyre]

On 11/4/2018 at 7:44 PM, blazes said:

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

Like all the expats who become fluent in Vietnamese, for example?

[1FinickyOne]

On 11/6/2018 at 9:49 AM, seancbk said:

 

Tones change the word and people who understand tonal languages have their brains wired differently.   As an example if in English you randomly changed the words in a sentence to something completely different would you expect to be understood?  When you speak a tonal language and get the tones wrong they hear a totally different word (effectively you dropping a random word into the sentence, and most likely more than one).

English speakers often think that tonal speakers can figure out on the fly all the tonal word variations and replace the English person's mistaken word with the right word, but it doesn't work like that.   Thais and Chinese don't have a mental dictionary with all the different words for each tone neatly arranged together, each 'word' is completely distinct to them the same as words in English are to us.

 

totally correct - - to expect people to understand very garbled speech is not fair... I have the same trouble when my wife tries to speak English, I am never certain if she is not using a Thai word that I am not familiar with... as most couples who do enjoy learning language, we tend to mix Thai/English and have mispronunciations that only the other understands. 

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

totally correct - - to expect people to understand very garbled speech is not fair... I have the same trouble when my wife tries to speak English, I am never certain if she is not using a Thai word that I am not familiar with... as most couples who do enjoy learning language, we tend to mix Thai/English and have mispronunciations that only the other understands. 

One of the things I noticed is that the Thai folks will correct your pronunciation all the time. When I can say something in Thai that is not corrected, I feel proud. Thats about 2 words. The worst is the Wats, hey I want to go to Wat Pray-un-wong-sa-WAHT.....Ehhhh?...show Google map, Ka, Wat Prayoonwongsahwaaaaah, ka.....

 

The older market ladies and vendors are the worst. Sometimes they make me repeat myself three times, and wont do anything until I say it right, especially if they are in a gaggle...when my prononuciation is correct I get served and they talk about me. Wow Poomp, it only took the fat foreinger 3 times to get it right, good job, Yes Ploomp, he seems smarter than average, but my 3rd grandchild by my 2nd daughter the little shrimp only took one time at 3 years old, Ehhhhh, Ahhhhhh, Eeeeee, hysterical cackling, maybe we should see if he eats bugs, eeeehhhh Ahhhhhh, cackle Khop Khun kah!

 

Sometimes talking Thai like an idiot helps.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Seems like when my gf talks to me in English, which is 99% of the time, I can understand it even when she changes a word or totally mispronounces a word.
But, when I try to speak Thai she is unable to understand the gist of what I’m trying to say, even if I’m only saying one word [emoji51]. After she corrects me and I try to repeat several times it usually ends up with me saying “ isn’t that what I just said “ !shaking my head and rolling my eyes....oops sorry wrong thread !

Initially I’m thinking “ why can you not understand what I’m saying !”, but have come to realise it’s not that simple.
As stated earlier a mispronounced word in English is usually not far from the correct word and easy to interpret.
A mispronounced word , or incorrect tone, in Thai makes it a totally different word or incomprehensible.

Sooo, although it might appear that Thai people don’t have the ability to understand your poor language skills it’s not that simple.

Frustrating I know, but that’s what makes Thai so much more difficult to learn.

[bluesofa]

On 11/5/2018 at 7:54 AM, PatOngo said:

I made the effort many years ago and it has served me well working with the locals. When Thai strangers I meet compliment on my language skills and ask how long I have been here, I tell them 3 days, I learned it from a book on the plane coming over here.

Ha ha! Same-same but different:

When I'm asked how long I've been here due to speaking Thai, I look at my watch and say, "ten minutes."

I can't believe how many people there are without a sense of humour.

[1FinickyOne]

11 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Seems like when my gf talks to me in English, which is 99% of the time, I can understand it even when she changes a word or totally mispronounces a word.
But, when I try to speak Thai she is unable to understand the gist of what I’m trying to say, even if I’m only saying one word . After she corrects me and I try to repeat several times it usually ends up with me saying “ isn’t that what I just said “ !shaking my head and rolling my eyes....oops sorry wrong thread !

Initially I’m thinking “ why can you not understand what I’m saying !”, but have come to realise it’s not that simple.
As stated earlier a mispronounced word in English is usually not far from the correct word and easy to interpret.
A mispronounced word , or incorrect tone, in Thai makes it a totally different word or incomprehensible.

Sooo, although it might appear that Thai people don’t have the ability to understand your poor language skills it’s not that simple.

Frustrating I know, but that’s what makes Thai so much more difficult to learn.

I think English has got to be unbelievably difficult to learn. I am just glad my niece does not ask me "why" questions... things I never thought about or noticed... 

 

I fly, you fly, we fly, they fly, he flies...

 

I have no idea, but glad I learned English as a first language. 

[samsensam]

On 11/4/2018 at 7:23 PM, Puwa said:

Maybe a good topic for a poll, along the lines of, "If you live here and don't speak Thai, why not?"  Offer a few options, such as

1) I'm too lazy

2) I don't need it

3) I would like to but ...

4) My partner communicates on my behalf

***

Personally, I couldn't imagine living in a country without making my best effort to learn the language. In Thailand, the benefits are enormous. Being able to read signs, labels, instructions, news, and contracts makes a huge difference. Daily life is more convenient, ordinary Thai people are at their friendliest and most comfortable, and the sketchiest ones stay away. As far as romance goes, I'd much rather invest my time and effort learning a language than waste my money in a futile bid to buy affection. Meeting women and dating is an entirely different experience to the typical farang scene. The conventional ThaiVisa wisdom that middle- or upper-class women don't date farang turns out to be complete BS. (I used to try to point this out but would get shouted down as a liar; I can only chuckle.) The only minor disadvantage is that farang who don't speak Thai tend to resent those who do. When you immediately relate to their wives and girlfriends better than they do, they become insecure (often for good reason-- you get a lot of propositions). It's also a huge advantage for picking up tourists. In sum, totally worth the effort.

 

 

 

The conventional ThaiVisa wisdom that middle- or upper-class women don't date farang turns out to be complete BS. (I used to try to point this out but would get shouted down as a liar; I can only chuckle.)

 

so true. i have never paid anyone to be my girlfriend/friend and have had the most wonderful and exciting relationships and experiences here. (long may the myth continue, more great ladies for the enlightened few!)

 

[bluesofa]

8 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

I think English has got to be unbelievably difficult to learn. I am just glad my niece does not ask me "why" questions... things I never thought about or noticed... 

 

I fly, you fly, we fly, they fly, he flies...

 

I have no idea, but glad I learned English as a first language. 

And as for English humour using flies:

Time flies like knives. Fruit flies like bananas.

[1FinickyOne]

5 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

And as for English humour using flies:

Time flies like knives. Fruit flies like bananas.

Book title: The Panda, eats, shoots, and leaves.

 

or something like that... a book about commas.. and punctuation. 

 

It is all part of the cultural experience. One of my retirement goals was to live timelessly, as when I was a kid on that endless summer vacation. My wife gets annoyed when I worry about time, being on time, etc.. and when speaking Thai, I find many people eliminate use of tenses which I feel a need to include. 

 

[bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

Book title: The Panda, eats, shoots, and leaves.

 

or something like that... a book about commas.. and punctuation. 

 

It is all part of the cultural experience. One of my retirement goals was to live timelessly, as when I was a kid on that endless summer vacation. My wife gets annoyed when I worry about time, being on time, etc.. and when speaking Thai, I find many people eliminate use of tenses which I feel a need to include. 

 

Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss.

An excellent book for the grammar pedant.

[1FinickyOne]

24 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Ha ha! Same-same but different:

When I'm asked how long I've been here due to speaking Thai, I look at my watch and say, "ten minutes."

I can't believe how many people there are without a sense of humour.

Look at your watch and ask "Qi Mong?" That should get the laugh... 

 

Ten minutes is precise - they don't get precision - it is not a culture of precision... 'Qi Mong' is sarcasm, they get sarcasm... 

 

Either that or my delivery is good... a funny face maybe?

[1FinickyOne]

1 minute ago, bluesofa said:

Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss.

An excellent book for the grammar pedant.

Yea, see that, my grammar problem is in remembering... good job. 

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

Look at your watch and ask "Qi Mong?" That should get the laugh... 

 

Ten minutes is precise - they don't get precision - it is not a culture of precision... 'Qi Mong' is sarcasm, they get sarcasm... 

 

Either that or my delivery is good... a funny face maybe?

I didn't know there was a delivery service for funny faces? Only pizza.

[upu2]

I have been in Thailand for just over 30 years and I can hold a conversation with Thai's. I usually have a good talk with the taxi drivers. To learn a language is not too hard but you do need a few things before you can learn. These are a wish to learn Thai and most of all, persistence to make mistakes and learn from them. Unfortunately many expats here in Thailand define the word lazy. They expect the world to come to them as they are important and no one else is and of course for many there world revolves around drink where many people in these establishments speak some English. Learning a language is fun and it makes the world of difference when interacting with people who dont speak English.

Edited November 12, 2018 by upu2

[marcusarelus]

56 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

I think English has got to be unbelievably difficult to learn. I am just glad my niece does not ask me "why" questions... things I never thought about or noticed... 

 

I fly, you fly, we fly, they fly, he flies...

 

I have no idea, but glad I learned English as a first language. 

English is very easy to learn if one is not talking with a pedantic a######.  That's why it is the international trade language.  3000 English words covers almost anything.  Oxford English Dictionary contains 171,476 words in current use, whereas a vocabulary of just 3000 words provides coverage for around 95% of common texts. If you do the math, that’s 1.75% of the total number of words in use! That’s right, by knowing 1.75% of the English dictionary, you’ll be able to understand 95% of what you read.

 

https://www.lingholic.com/how-many-words-do-i-need-to-know-the-955-rule-in-language-learning-part-2/

[melvinmelvin]

25 minutes ago, upu2 said:

I have been in Thailand for just over 30 years and I can hold a conversation with Thai's. I usually have a good talk with the taxi drivers. To learn a language is not too hard but you do need a few things before you can learn. These are a wish to learn Thai and most of all, persistence to make mistakes and learn from them. Unfortunately many expats here in Thailand define the word lazy. They expect the world to come to them as they are important and no one else is and of course for many there world revolves around drink where many people in these establishments speak some English. Learning a language is fun and it makes the world of difference when interacting with people who dont speak English.

I can't speak much Thai, except for some special themes in which I am quite good.

But I often find that I can speak fairly well with some taxi drivers,

probably because they have experience with farang and can sort the wrong length of vowels and wrong tones on the fly.