Stringent measures afoot to tackle air pollution in Thailand

[Thian]

56 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

Stop Thai's burning stuff,it's a national pastime.

Especially old batteries...i have some dead powerpacks here (Ni/Cd) i want to get rid of...only way is dumping them in the binbag...and they will get buried or burned i bet.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

PCD director-general Pralong Damrongthai revealed that as the direct agency to mitigate air pollution, the department this year would introduce many strict, new measures during the upcoming haze season in the northern region and the Bangkok metropolitan area.

 

“This is the first year that we are using PM2.5 [particulate matter smaller than 2.5 microns] as another air-quality indicator in order to improve the accuracy of our air-pollution monitoring and warning system,” Pralong said.

 

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah...   More hot air empty talk from the folks who do nothing to improve the bad air in Thailand, much less any other kind of pollution.

 

Whatever regulations or controls they come up with will either be ignored or simply not enforced to any great extent.

 

Just like all the other empty, unfulfilled promises the government has made in recent years.  But I'm sure it sounds good when spoken at some WHO conference in Geneva, round trip first-class accommodations, courtesy of THAI Air, I'm sure.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Thian said:

Especially old batteries...i have some dead powerpacks here (Ni/Cd) i want to get rid of...only way is dumping them in the binbag...and they will get buried or burned i bet.

 

You could take them and dispose of them in the few designated E-waste recycling bins at places like Fortune Town and a few others....

 

Of course, for all we know, the stuff that gets put in those bins probably ends up being dumped with all the rest of the garbage nonetheless.

 

[cardinalblue]

What are you talking about - my wife  burns year around....

 

Burning occurs everyday in the north...

 

why people are so gullible to buy into “its the haze season” vs the non -haze season so implying it’s high quality outside air...

 

A pristine crystal clear air day is non existent in the north....

[Oziex1]

A 25 per cent reduction over a 10 year period not much of a goal is it. 

Anyway, this guy needs to get with the picture and do what the others do.  Instruct his people to have it to world standards in 3 months, that's how it's done.

[rickudon]

Wow! They are now officially measuring PM2.5 levels. The only problem is, they do not monitor ANYTHING across most of Thailand. The only official monitoring station for the whole of the NE is in Khon Kaen. There should be hundreds of monitoring stations in every province .....

[canopy]

4 hours ago, rickudon said:

Wow! They are now officially measuring PM2.5 levels.

 

Thailand resisted reporting the dangerous PM2.5 levels which are extremely high for many years because they did not want the truth to be known about how bad the air is. Before deciding to report PM2.5 they did something they referred to as "experimenting with the data" which really means came up with devious ways to doctor the data to keep on hiding the truth from the people. The outcome of this "experimenting" is below:

 

1. They made up their own Thai air quality scale to label air twice as bad as WHO standards as acceptable.

 

2. They will report the daily average of PM2.5, not maximum PM2.5. Think about that, what matters to anyone about the weather forecast of a day? Maximum temperature. People want to know how hot it will get. Absolutely no one cares what the average temperature is over a 24 hour period. So it is with pollution.

 

Be aware of these things when Thailand talks about its air quality. As long as this despicable charade is going on, be sure to get your information about Thailand's air quality from unbiased, 3rd party sources.

 

[wgdanson]

On 11/7/2018 at 11:00 AM, Krataiboy said:

Now I know why so many Thai people in my coastal town have taken to wearing masks while riding bicycles or scooters,

But still do not wear a helmet!

[simoh1490]

11 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

Thailand resisted reporting the dangerous PM2.5 levels which are extremely high for many years because they did not want the truth to be known about how bad the air is. Before deciding to report PM2.5 they did something they referred to as "experimenting with the data" which really means came up with devious ways to doctor the data to keep on hiding the truth from the people. The outcome of this "experimenting" is below:

 

1. They made up their own Thai air quality scale to label air twice as bad as WHO standards as acceptable.

 

2. They will report the daily average of PM2.5, not maximum PM2.5. Think about that, what matters to anyone about the weather forecast of a day? Maximum temperature. People want to know how hot it will get. Absolutely no one cares what the average temperature is over a 24 hour period. So it is with pollution.

 

Be aware of these things when Thailand talks about its air quality. As long as this despicable charade is going on, be sure to get your information about Thailand's air quality from unbiased, 3rd party sources.

 

PM <2.5 levels can be and are accurately calculated from PM <10 readings, for many many years, until quite recently almost no countries reported actual PM<2.5 levels - it was for those reasons that actual PM<2.5 levels were not reported previously, that combined with the relatively high cost of PM<2.5 measuring technology. It's also worth pointing out that the WHO guidelines regarding PM2.5 are so stringent that no country globally can meet them, that was why Thailand created its own more realistic index.

Edited November 12, 2018 by simoh1490

[mommysboy]

The problem is clearly being caused by secret vaping.

[The Deerhunter]

On 11/7/2018 at 10:25 AM, Cadbury said:

Thailand can do what it likes to reduce the air pollution it creates itself, particularly smoke from burning crops; that is a good thing. But do these people naively believed there are protective atmospheric curtains that hang on the boundaries of nearby countries like Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam that prevent their smoke and other forms of pollution from entering Thailand's atmosphere? Air pollution is a global problem. 

Do they imagine Thailand is covered by some invisible bubble protecting it from external pollution?

 

Not sure what they believe except that some of them will think there is an amulet for it.  And that is all that is needed.

[Bournville]

25 percent is not nearly enough in The crazy burning season of the North!

[Bournville]

Thailand can do what it likes to reduce the air pollution it creates itself, particularly smoke from burning crops; that is a good thing. But do these people naively believed there are protective atmospheric curtains that hang on the boundaries of nearby countries like Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam that prevent their smoke and other forms of pollution from entering Thailand's atmosphere? Air pollution is a global problem. 
Do they imagine Thailand is covered by some invisible bubble protecting it from external pollution?
 

Yes

[canopy]

Simoh do you by chance work for the Thai government? Strange to see someone sugar coat and make excuses for every disingenuous move the government made. Let's look at these points.

 

11 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

it was for those reasons that actual PM<2.5 levels were not reported previously

Cost and not having the devices were not the reason. Other countries donated PM2.5 monitoring equipment to thailand many years ago. Thailand still chose to not release the data, keeping it completely hidden from the public for years.

 

11 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

It's also worth pointing out that the WHO guidelines regarding PM2.5 are so stringent that no country globally can meet them, that was why Thailand created its own more realistic index.

There are places all over the world that meet WHO guidelines for good air quality so why would you say something so false? Even the north of Thailand does during points in the rainy season. But this point doesn't even matter. If the air is unsafe, then it's unsafe. Fabricating a "realistic" index as you put it where Thailand classifies air known to be harmful to humans as good is a horrible injustice to the people living there who will suffer greater health consequences. The government will simply point to their fabricated data and say everything is fine instead of doing anything about the pollution. Everyone who made the decision to doctor the PM2.5 data should be immediately fired and put on trial for fraud. The new staff should be chosen with people who care about honesty and the health of the people, not face saving and hiding the truth.

 

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, canopy said:

Simoh do you by chance work for the Thai government? Strange to see someone sugar coat and make excuses for every disingenuous move the government made. Let's look at these points.

 

Cost and not having the devices were not the reason. Other countries donated PM2.5 monitoring equipment to thailand many years ago. Thailand still chose to not release the data, keeping it completely hidden from the public for years.

 

There are places all over the world that meet WHO guidelines for good air quality so why would you say something so false? Even the north of Thailand does during points in the rainy season. But this point doesn't even matter. If the air is unsafe, then it's unsafe. Fabricating a "realistic" index as you put it where Thailand classifies air known to be harmful to humans as good is a horrible injustice to the people living there who will suffer greater health consequences. The government will simply point to their fabricated data and say everything is fine instead of doing anything about the pollution. Everyone who made the decision to doctor the PM2.5 data should be immediately fired and put on trial for fraud. The new staff should be chosen with people who care about honesty and the health of the people, not face saving and hiding the truth.

 

I look for and enjoy debates that are fair and balanced rather than ones that present just one side of the story, that's all.

 

I've been in and out of these debates on TVF on air quality in Thailand for about twelve years so I think I've heard and read most of the arguments from both camps. The issue of the cost of PM2.5 monitoring technology was, until fairly recently, massively prohibitive and as I recall Canada was the only country using it at one point in the past five years - if that situation has changed and the technology has now become more affordable and/or other countries have donated equipment for use in Thailand that's the first I have heard of it - the standard application however was that PM2.5 values were calculated from PM10 levels and assumed to be broadly correct But I'm not going to reinvent the wheel in this argument and spend lots of time searching through old posts (even if one could do so easily), there will be other posters who recall these things and they may well chip in.

 

Ditto the unrealistic targets for PM2.5 that were set by the WHO, again, up to about five years ago those targets had not been met by almost any industrialised country in the world,....believe that as you will, or not and if that has changed over the past five years, great. But at least that explains the history of my comments and provides some background.

 

"According to the latest air quality database, 97% of cities in low- and middle- income countries with more than 100,000 inhabitants do not meet WHO air quality guidelines". WHO 2018

 

https://www.news18.com/news/world/five-eu-countries-have-worse-air-than-india-most-fail-to-meet-quality-targets-report-1874723.html

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/11/air-pollution-is-biggest-environmental-health-risk-in-europe

http://www.who.int/airpollution/data/cities/en/

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

PM <2.5 levels can be and are accurately calculated from PM <10 readings, for many many years, until quite recently almost no countries reported actual PM<2.5 levels - it was for those reasons that actual PM<2.5 levels were not reported previously, that combined with the relatively high cost of PM<2.5 measuring technology. It's also worth pointing out that the WHO guidelines regarding PM2.5 are so stringent that no country globally can meet them, that was why Thailand created its own more realistic index.

 

This 2016 WHO report shows a world map of annual mean PM2.5 levels and their compliance with the WHO's annual mean standard of 10 micrograms of PM2.5. Only the dark blue shaded areas meet that standard, which appears to include most of the U.S., Canda and others. The UK is close, but just above the WHO annual standard.

 

The worst areas are those shaded in yellow, orange, red areas. Generally, China, India and SE Asia are among the worst areas on the map.

 

The PM2.5 in Thailand, on average, is about 3 times the levels in the U.S. and Canada, and twice the level in the UK, based on annual medians. But the levels in China and India are more than twice as bad as Thailand.

 

Quote

Globally, according to the currently available data, only 16% of the assessed population is exposed to PM10 or PM2.5 annual mean levels complying with AQG levels.

 

 

 

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/250141/9789241511353-eng.pdf?sequence=1

 

 

 

 

BTW, if you read the OP, even the Thai PCD director seems to be saying they're moving to look at PM2.5 as a key pollution standard here:

 

Quote

“This is the first year that we are using PM2.5 [particulate matter smaller than 2.5 microns] as another air-quality indicator in order to improve the accuracy of our air-pollution monitoring and warning system,” Pralong said.

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Nyezhov]

Makes for a pretty sunrise. Unfiltered.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

From the same WHO report:

 

Est. age standardized deaths per 100,000 population in 2012 from ambient air pollution:

 

Australia -- 0.2

Canada -- 37

China -- 70

India -- 68

Thailand - 28

United Kingdom - 13

United States -- 7

 

There are other higher numbers, of course, in the report for shortened lifespan and disability related to air pollution, per capita, by country.

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

This 2016 WHO report shows a world map of annual mean PM2.5 levels and their compliance with the WHO's annual mean standard of 10 micrograms of PM2.5. Only the dark blue shaded areas meet that standard, which appears to include most of the U.S., Canda and others. The UK is close, but just above the WHO annual standard.

 

The worst areas are those shaded in yellow, orange, red areas. Generally, China, India and SE Asia are among the worst areas on the map.

 

The PM2.5 in Thailand, on average, is about 3 times the levels in the U.S. and Canada, and twice the level in the UK, based on annual medians. But the levels in China and India are more than twice as bad as Thailand.

 

 

 

 

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/250141/9789241511353-eng.pdf?sequence=1

 

 

 

 

BTW, if you read the OP, even the Thai PCD director seems to be saying they're moving to look at PM2.5 as a key pollution standard here:

 

 

Perhaps you missed that I wrote, "Ditto the unrealistic targets for PM2.5 that were set by the WHO, again, up to about five years ago those targets had not been met by almost any industrialised country in the world,....believe that as you will, or not and if that has changed over the past five years, great". 

[Dave67]

What the surprise the emerging countries are creating more pollution the those that had there industrial hay day 50 years ago so they pollute less now but the damage we are are facing now was done before by them

Edited November 13, 2018 by Dave67