Thai junta says no need for foreign observers at next year's election

[johng]

Or, as a former leader said, "the United Nations is not my father". Not a fan of oversight either I guess.

I believe both elections he won where overseen by foreign observers..who reported the elections (mostly) free and fair ?

[Mavideol]

""Don cited the national referendum on the Constitution in 2016, which he said had gained praise and acceptance from the international community.""

 

He's kidding right?

[HAKAPALITA]

Lets hope the present lot stay in power, dont want the Red Thieves back again

[HalfLight]

8 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

u r correct, they said """"have nothing to hide, elections will be democratic.....""" if that's the case, nothing to hide, let the inspectors in

 

 

Quite right, the poster you replied to appears to be saying 3 things:

 

1. Thailand has nothing to hide (debateable).

2. Thailand has democratic elections (debateable)

3. Thanlsnd will prove it has nothing to hide by hiding something.

 

Not sure about that...

[Mavideol]

9 hours ago, DavisH said:

It's not a reflection on ability, but on the culture of corruption in this country.

 

Also, if Puea Thai is not dissolved, I predict another landslide win to them (for better or worse). 

can it be worse than what it is now? wondering

[johng]

Lets hope the present lot stay in power, dont want the Red Thieves back again

The green thieves haven't had enough yet ?

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Self explanatory.

International election observers in United States to hold press conference on Wednesday

The International Election Observation Mission comprises a total of some 140 observers from 35 countries, including 84 parliamentarians and staff from the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly and 55 long-term observers and election experts deployed by Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights .

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-secret-service.html

I'm sure you can research for more examples.

I'm also sure that Prayut would object to the same observers as they would lack "Thainess."

To my Post #52 I add the following:

Recent selected OSCE voting observation missions (cont.)

Turkey: Early Presidential & Parliamentary Elections 2018, Constitutional Referendum 2017

Armenia: Early Parliamentary Elections 2018

2018 Presidential Elections: Georgia, Ireland, Russia, Finland

2018 Parliamentary Elections: Luxembourg, Latvia, Hungary, Italy

2018 General Elections: Sweden

Other Years selected OSCE voting observation missions

Poland: Presidential & Parliamentary Elections 2015

2017 Parliamentary Elections: Germany, France

2017 General Election: UK

https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/2018

If OSCE is invited to Thailand, I'm sure they will come.

[zzaa09]

33 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Lets hope the present lot stay in power, dont want the Red Thieves back again

Well, there are certainly other options besides the proverbial and invented Red and Yellow. 

That's the problem - most won't allow themselves to think past these perimeters. 

[wabothai]

Yeah, them obervers may tell you a thing or two.

[JemJem]

Ahhhh, the issue of foreign observers at elections; LOL. Having read a variety of sources over the years, MOSTLY, the presence of such people hardly ever prevents the party/person who plans to cheat from doing so. Over the years, sophisticated methods of cheating have been developed and as we all know, the presence of a number of foreign observers at selected few places during the election won't help much.

 

And, even when such observers notice some cheating, they usually report it as 'There have been some irregularities but we cannot say that this was widely done, nor that it affected the outcome'.

 

Has there ever been a case anywhere in the world when an election was declared not valid (and thus held again later) due to a report by foreign observers who had indicated that there was significant cheating ? I doubt it.

 

Maybe some of you would say that their presence and reports might then cause some other governments to take a stand against the government/person in question, if some cheating was reported; but I think this is very unlikely.

 

[HalfLight]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

""Don cited the national referendum on the Constitution in 2016, which he said had gained praise and acceptance from the international community.""

 

He's kidding right?

 

Well, yes, he was kidding. Not his fault if some Thais in Thailand believed him is it? Of course not, it's not like he's widely believed to be a lying POS or anything...

[sawadeeken]

8 hours ago, lvr181 said:

Would they do that?  Mmmm........   ????

 

 

 

Do bears poop in the forest???????? LOL......

[melvinmelvin]

too bad that the wife of the Minister of Foreign affairs was cleared and that he is back in office

Thailand is not in need of a Minister of Foreign affairs suffering from severe brain damage

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

I do not recall the last referendum on a new Constitution in 2016 having received praise and acceptance by the international community, as claimed, nor did the voters realise that, having voted on something most were allowed to know very little about, it would subsequently be substantially changed in the Junta;s favour.

[sammieuk1]

Should be able to tell us who won tomorrow ????

[the guest]

That's right ! nothing to see here, move along !

[CLW]

We can do it ourselves and we have succeeded many times already,” he said.

 

Over the last 20 or 15 years the country with the most coups in the world.

 

Definitely it didn't work.

 

Actually it could be so easy, the EU, USA and UN don't recognise the elections until there are independent observers present

 

[HalfLight]

13 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

I do not recall the last referendum on a new Constitution in 2016 having received praise and acceptance by the international community, as claimed, nor did the voters realise that, having voted on something most were allowed to know very little about, it would subsequently be substantially changed in the Junta;s favour.

 

You're quite right, there was no acclaim from other nations. The tactic appears to be 'say anything you like to Thais, no matter how untrue or ridiculous; then wait for what you say to be contradicted by the international diplomatic community - which of course, it won't be'.

 

This government started off bady by committing treason, and it has got steadily worse and more mendacious. The response should have been what some wiser people were advocating from day one, but no, Thais know best. Therefore, in my opinion, they should be left stew in their own juices.

 

As hard as it is to turn a blind eye and take no notice when we, as guests and observers, see the crass stupidity of what is an essentially unintelligent an undereducated (by design) population being forced (by whatever means) to accept bully-boy behaviour in our adopted country, we should none-the-less do exactly that, it's the only way to retain some semblance of sanity in one's own life - simply let the antics of what is essentially a medieval community roll off one's back like water off a duck. The natives neither want nor can benefit from our opinion, they'll learn under their own steam eventually, or not. Either way, it's their country, it's their life, and it's ultimately going to be their funeral, so if they're happy enough letting a bunch of thugs in uniform plunder their country, their standard of living, and their future, then in my view it's best to just enjoy the climate and the cost of living, and let them get on with it. Personally speaking, there's no skin off my nose.

 

You surely cannot expect to educate a house brick, or usefully tell it about justice, democracy and the modern world, so perhaps it's best just to let odious people like Prayuth, Prawit and Dom do what they have to do and enrich themselves at the expense of everybody else. It seems to be the law of the jungle, and I expect there's some natural order to that, if you look hard enough. It's in the nature of people and evolution that some will struggle and strive to be better, richer than the others, and thus more attractive to the opposite sex. If they can only do it by by being corrupt criminals and bullies, there isn't anything you or I can do about that, it's in their nature. remember the story about the frog and the scorpion.

Edited November 8, 2018 by HalfLight

[melvinmelvin]

11 hours ago, CLW said:

 

Over the last 20 or 15 years the country with the most coups in the world.

 

Definitely it didn't work.

 

Actually it could be so easy, the EU, USA and UN don't recognise the elections until there are independent observers present

 

this can hardly be correct

[HalfLight]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

this can hardly be correct

 

FWIW, I agree, and I'm sure it isn't. Each of those illustrious  bodies have more problems than they can cope with and can scarcely be looked to for guidance.

 

People will eventually kill themselves off, I don't really care. I doubt I'll be around to see the coup de grace, so I'll be content with nothing more important than wondering what's for dinner...

Edited November 8, 2018 by HalfLight

[HAKAPALITA]

Ive noticed when socialising with ferangs those married / associate's bar girls refer to Junta, those who are not refer to them with  respect, be they for or against.

[HalfLight]

11 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Ive noticed when socialising with ferangs those married / associate's bar girls refer to Junta, those who are not refer to them with  respect, be they for or against.

 

Hrrmm. Haven't noticed that pattern myself, though I can't really comment on what bar girls say or think, doubtless they do what they do and they think what they think.

 

I think it's a question of inclination. Those who are inclined to admire bullies - probably those who would be bullies themselves given the opportunity, will speak respectfully and admiringly of thugs, while those who are inclined to democracy will be less respectful. The human is an animal, same as all the others so we should expect raw evolution-driven behaviour. We're essentially no different from the big cats in the jungle/desert or the monkeys in the clearings, we're just a bit smarter.

 

Well, some are...

Edited November 8, 2018 by HalfLight

[Srikcir]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

this can hardly be correct

Intuitively it can't be correct as the EU and USA would then in essence concede their sovereignty to act independently to determine their response to another country's electoral process and results.

However, the US, EU, etc. might rely on election observers monitoring to make informed decisions as to whether to accept election results.

Case 1 in point is the Venezuela Presidential elections were held on 20 May 2018.

• While there were no international observers, several Venezuelan NGOs took issue with various election irregularities. 
• Because of this, the United Nations, European Union, the Organization of American States, the Lima Group and countries such as Australia and the United States rejected the electoral process; however, countries such as China, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Turkey and others recognized the election result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2018

Case 2 in point is the Honduras 2017 Presidential election.

• Election observers from the OAS and European Union had found irregularities and serious deficiencies that called the result into question.
• Still the Trump administration recognized the result of the election.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-12-22/us-recognizes-disputed-honduras-election-results

 

So a foreign nation's concern about another nation's electoral process is not going to be directed by observers but more so "guided" by election observers and/or political opposition groups, whether domestic or international. Ultimately, a foreign nation's acceptance of election results of another nation will rely on the foreign nation's international policies and strategic objectives. Democratic ideals may not be the leading factor for some democratic nations in their reaction to election criticisms.

 

From that viewpoint if there were significant election irregularities in the next Thailand General Election (regardless of who identifies those irregularities), one might see the Trump administration along with several South East Asian-Pacific nations accepting the election results and the EU/UN objecting to the results.

 

 

 

[HalfLight]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Intuitively it can't be correct as the EU and USA would then in essence concede their sovereignty to act independently to determine their response to another country's electoral process and results.

However, the US, EU, etc. might rely on election observers monitoring to make informed decisions as to whether to accept election results.

Case 1 in point is the Venezuela Presidential elections were held on 20 May 2018.

• While there were no international observers, several Venezuelan NGOs took issue with various election irregularities. 
• Because of this, the United Nations, European Union, the Organization of American States, the Lima Group and countries such as Australia and the United States rejected the electoral process; however, countries such as China, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Turkey and others recognized the election result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2018

Case 2 in point is the Honduras 2017 Presidential election.

• Election observers from the OAS and European Union had found irregularities and serious deficiencies that called the result into question.
• Still the Trump administration recognized the result of the election.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-12-22/us-recognizes-disputed-honduras-election-results

 

So a foreign nation's concern about another nation's electoral process is not going to be directed by observers but more so "guided" by election observers and/or political opposition groups, whether domestic or international. Ultimately, a foreign nation's acceptance of election results of another nation will rely on the foreign nation's international policies and strategic objectives. Democratic ideals may not be the leading factor for some democratic nations in their reaction to election criticisms.

 

From that viewpoint if there were significant election irregularities in the next Thailand General Election (regardless of who identifies those irregularities), one might see the Trump administration along with several South East Asian-Pacific nations accepting the election results and the EU/UN objecting to the results.

 

 

 

 

Trump.

 

Yes. OK.

 

[Ceruhe]

Thailand does not need international observers to monitor next year's general elections, as there won't be any to begin with, the foreign minister said on Tuesday.

 

Found the hidden part of the sentence.

[GarryP]

42 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

You're quite right, there was no acclaim from other nations. The tactic appears to be 'say anything you like to Thais, no matter how untrue or ridiculous; then wait for what you say to be contradicted by the international diplomatic community - which of course, it won't be'.

 

This government started off bady by committing treason, and it has got steadily worse and more mendacious. The response should have been what some wiser people were advocating from day one, but no, Thais know best. Therefore, in my opinion, they should be left stew in their own juices.

 

As hard as it is to turn a blind eye and take no notice when we, as guests and observers, see the crass stupidity of what is an essentially unintelligent an undereducated (by design) population being forced (by whatever means) to accept bully-boy behaviour in our adopted country, we should none-the-less do exactly that, it's the only way to retain some semblance of sanity in one's own life - simply let the antics of what is essentially a medieval community roll off one's back like water off a duck. The natives neither want nor can benefit from our opinion, they'll learn under their own steam eventually, or not. Either way, it's their country, it's their life, and it's ultimately going to be their funeral, so if they're happy enough letting a bunch of thugs in uniform plunder their country, their standard of living, and their future, then in my view it's best to just enjoy the climate and the cost of living, and let them get on with it. Personally speaking, there's no skin off my nose.

 

You surely cannot expect to educate a house brick, or usefully tell it about justice, democracy and the modern world, so perhaps it's best just to let odious people like Prayuth, Prawit and Dom do what they have to do and enrich themselves at the expense of everybody else. It seems to be the law of the jungle, and I expect there's some natural order to that, if you look hard enough. It's in the nature of people and evolution that some will struggle and strive to be better, richer than the others, and thus more attractive to the opposite sex. If they can only do it by by being corrupt criminals and bullies, there isn't anything you or I can do about that, it's in their nature. remember the story about the frog and the scorpion.

Many of the "guests" have wives and children, whether their own or adopted, who will live their lives in Thailand after their "guest" fathers have died.  So I believe we should participate (as limited as that is), we should comment and we should take an interest in the future of the country our families live in.  

 

I also think it wrong to call the people unintelligent. Now, "undereducated", I couldn't agree with you more. The education available to the average Thai is terrible. Rote learning and indoctrination in a false history, forced glorification,  obsequiousness, etc.      

[melvinmelvin]

17 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

Trump.

 

Yes. OK.

 

 

well

not recognizing the election because of no observers would mean

that if Democrats/Abbisith wins and he is installed as PM

 

the US and EU and one more? will continue to consult with Prayuth as the proper PM of Thailand,

just ignoring the election and appointment of Abbisith?

 

not even Trump would do that

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[HalfLight]

29 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Many of the "guests" have wives and children, whether their own or adopted, who will live their lives in Thailand after their "guest" fathers have died.  So I believe we should participate (as limited as that is), we should comment and we should take an interest in the future of the country our families live in.  

 

I also think it wrong to call the people unintelligent. Now, "undereducated", I couldn't agree with you more. The education available to the average Thai is terrible. Rote learning and indoctrination in a false history, forced glorification,  obsequiousness, etc.      

 

 

Well, the Thai Average IQ is 10 points below the global mean so that makes them 'unitelligent'. Otherwise, yes, I agree with you at least in part. We should comment and take an interest, but we should also consider the actual usefulness of doing so - who are we talking to? Ourselves? or someone with the inclination and means to take notice? Plus, the question of 'Cui Bono?' arises - after some years watching, I'm pretty certain that there really isn't any point in doing either... just my opinion. I battered my head against that brick wall for a while - until I realised it was only me getting a headache.

Edited November 8, 2018 by HalfLight

[chama]

On 11/6/2018 at 4:13 PM, webfact said:

For the sake of credibility, politicians and critics have sought foreign monitors to be observers during the general election tentatively scheduled for February 24. The Election Commission (EC) has reportedly taken requests from foreign organisations to observe the national vote.

Seems like everyone recognizes the problems here except the junta...or maybe they do and realize that foreign observers would necessitate their using their game in order to steal the election. Oops...no election. Problem solved.