Expats need to organize in face of Embassies discontinuance of income verification letters

[pookiki]

One of the TVF members on this thread has informed me that the US Consulate in Chiang Mai will be hosting an 'open forum' on 20 November. Please check the Consulate's website for details.  I would encourage all US expats who live in the Chiang Mai vicinity and who want the income verification affidavit reinstated to attend the forum and make your voices heard! If possible, the submission of a petition to Consulate officials would be an excellent idea.

Edited November 9, 2018 by pookiki
grammar

[luckyluke]

Assuming T.I. find out that an expat falsified his income and thus the document issued by an Embassy or consulate is incorrect. 

What can they do legally to this consulate or embassy? 

According to me, nothing, as this is not the way it goes in the diplomatic world. 

However 3 embassies don't want to take any risk. 

All the other embassies & consulates seems (so far) to take a chance on it. 

 

[Kenny202]

On 11/8/2018 at 12:21 PM, sotsira said:

I would also like to add, in the event that the only method will 

become to have 800k Baht in a Thai bank account, would it be 

acceptable to use a Foreign currency a/c with a Thai bank?

 

Would Thai immigration then accept the equivalent 800k THB

in that foreign currency?

At least then, you could keep your funds in your own currency and withdraw it with the flexibility as of when required. 

I have done this for 2 years no problem. Just make sure your imm office is aware and is accepting of this. Next issue trying to make your bank understand. I used a FCC (Foreign currency account) with Bangkok bank. It took me several visits to different branches to find someone in the branch even knew what a foreign currency account was. It costs you little to transfer the money over...but be aware there are fees to transfer back...0.25% if I remember correctly. Bkk bank show the details on their website if you google it. Reason I did it was the ex rate was so poor (but compared to now it was good 5555) and I would prefer to have my money invested in Australia at a higher return for 3 months. I think the cost of sending the 800k THB (in AUS dollars) and then returning it back to Australia after 3 months was about $300 fees plus whatever you would have lost in interest in Australia for 3 months. All up I remember about $800 or so dollars. In hindsight I wish I would have just transferred the money over here in baht as the exchange rate at the time was about 2 baht better than it is now...but thats the gamble.

 

The next year I decided it would be more economical to fly to Bkk and just do the stat dec letter. 2000 baht and airfares, accom. I didn't factor in bar fines grog and expensive farang food...so at the end of the day cost me more... but that was more self inflicted ???? 

[Kenny202]

I am a bit confused. There are obviously many retirees parents and husbands here that do have a legitimate pension or income stream from their country...but do not have the 400-800k Thai baht to show in the bank. Short of getting an agent to put the money on for them....what are these people going to do now? By the sounds of it Immigration not accepting evidence of pension etc at the IO and are insisting on a letter from the embassy, which is now unobtainable.

 

Is there any stats or evidence of people bailing out and going back home? Must be hard on the Brits first with the Brexit thing and now this. And lets face it Thailand isn't really that cheap to live anymore.

 

Is there been a change in Thailand's attitudes to foreigners or any reason for the changes? I know there has been a crackdown on Illegals and undesirables. 

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Some members here would make a Nazi proud....Yea put the screws to some one and blacklist them for life because they were a little short of the 65,000 and had to take other measures....

Now if they were rich they would be a fine human being....But if they are a little short they are nothing but trash..... 

Many such people have been living here comfortably for years on half that amount, often supporting locals and family, and causing no trouble to anyone. The requirements have gotten unrealistically high in recent years given the overvaluation of the baht and other factors. But in spite of things being costlier than in the past, many old timers would still be pretty baffled at how someone might plough through 65000 a month, especially in the cheaper parts of the country. Anyone who has trouble with this line of thinking might want to ask themselves just how much is their wife or girlfriend ramping up their budget?

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, The Truth said:

Excuse me but where did i say that you fiddled your way to an extension?

Guilty conscience, perhaps?

Oh and what bearing does my newbie status have on the facts?

Do I need to have 10,000 posts before I can tell it like it is?

If people don't have the funds then they cannot have the extension. 

That's pretty much it.

Everybody on this thread will have the required income but what methods the TI wish to be employed in the future to prove it is the only sticking point which is why we are all here, to speculate, to help and to exchange experiences with IO, you come across as arrogant and aggressive for no apparent reason.

[onera1961]

6 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Yea put the screws to some one and blacklist them for life because they were a little short of the 65,000 and had to take other measures....

Then here is always the Agent system one can use to circumvent that. You're advocating for people who have less money than stipulated requirements (65K) and engaged in round robin game. Why not then use an agent? Agent system is still live and kicking. 

[HooHaa]

These letters are meaningless. they are embassy affidavits that you claim your income is true. 

 

If the Thai government agrees to accept original documentation of income you have all saved a step. 

 

If you have no such documentation, it's likely the income isn't genuine either. 

 

Not sure why the outcry at the discontinuation of an entirely redundant process and additional cost. 

[onera1961]

12 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Anyone who has trouble with this line of thinking might want to ask themselves just how much is their wife or girlfriend ramping up their budget?

If wife is not ramping up the budget why do you think wife will stay with someone 20 years younger than her? She should get some benefits for staying with a person 20 years younger than her? And if she is not doing for any benefits, she is definitely not ramping up the budget

[onera1961]

8 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

If the Thai government agrees to accept original documentation of income you have all saved a step. 

I don't think TI will accept original documentation. It is also easy to fake when people can fake SS card and Passport and bills, The only easy solution is to see the money in the bank. I don't understand why people are reluctant to show 65K in the bank. Do they want the same thing to continue to avoid any disruption in their plan to stay in Thailand?

Edited November 10, 2018 by onera1961

[Curt1591]

24 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

These letters are meaningless. they are embassy affidavits that you claim your income is true. 

 

If the Thai government agrees to accept original documentation of income you have all saved a step. 

 

If you have no such documentation, it's likely the income isn't genuine either. 

 

Not sure why the outcry at the discontinuation of an entirely redundant process and additional cost. 

 

Presented the original documentation, covering an entire year's activity, from my funds providers, showing my funds providers' direct depositing more than sufficient monthly amounts into my account, with said statements mailed to my Thai address,

I was told it would not be accepted. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Curt1591

[Kenny202]

12 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't think TI will accept original documentation. It is also easy to fake when people can fake SS card and Passport and bills, The only easy solution is to see the money in the bank. I don't understand why people are reluctant to show 65K in the bank. Do they want the same thing to continue to avoid any disruption in their plan to stay in Thailand?

Show 65k in the bank? Without an embassy letter I thought the only option now was

400 / 800k THB in the bank for 3 months? Are any IO accepting direct proof of 65k income per month without embassy letter or is it universal?...Did I miss something?

 

I don't understand some people saying if you don't have the 800k to put in the bank you must be crooked. There must be a huge percentage of retirees / ex military etc living here on a pension that met the 65k per month requirement, but do not have the 800k. Probably chose to live here because they can have a better lifestyle than back home. Bit hard on the people that have wives and kids here and their whole life invested in the place. These people as a group still pouring a substantial amount of money into the Thai economy per month. May not have bitten yet but must be a huge amount of people leaving or planning to leaving 

[phetpeter]

On 11/8/2018 at 11:45 AM, john smith said:

was informed by immigration at Hua Hin main office three days ago that 65000 is not acceptable unless accompanied by an Embassy letter and only 800000 will be accepted with the usual three month proviso

It's not three months, but 60 days, and that is written in the official rules, I think it has been twisted by certain officials, and for marriage extensions, it is wise to leave it in the bank for the following 30days while the paperwork runs through the system. I understand in the past they needed to check the marriage might be a sham, but how much paperwork do they need every year is ridiculous, The same map, photos etc., its time they got their computers linked, but when they change the heads of offices so often, each with their own ideas it becomes stressful wondering what next they want. I think after 5 years of extensions, there should be a fast track system. Now we are issued with Pink id's, pay tax and belong to the social security system and can have HP in our own name plus name on the deeds etc., its time to give us some official status.

[soalbundy]

21 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't think TI will accept original documentation. It is also easy to fake when people can fake SS card and Passport and bills, The only easy solution is to see the money in the bank. I don't understand why people are reluctant to show 65K in the bank. Do they want the same thing to continue to avoid any disruption in their plan to stay in Thailand?

65k in the bank each month is OK by me, it is only, what method of transfer are they going to accept, ATM, transferwise,direct transfer, only pensions transfer ?  We just don't know. 

[cleopatra2]

23 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't think TI will accept original documentation. It is also easy to fake when people can fake SS card and Passport and bills, The only easy solution is to see the money in the bank. I don't understand why people are reluctant to show 65K in the bank. Do they want the same thing to continue to avoid any disruption in their plan to stay in Thailand?

The Immigration office that I use confirmed that monthly money deposited into Thai Bank from Oversees income is not acceptable.

Can you provide which office this monthly deposit is accepatble

[GeorgeCross]

23 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't think TI will accept original documentation. It is also easy to fake when people can fake SS card and Passport and bills, The only easy solution is to see the money in the bank. I don't understand why people are reluctant to show 65K in the bank. Do they want the same thing to continue to avoid any disruption in their plan to stay in Thailand?

 

have immigration confirmed 65K in a bank each month is acceptable now then?

 

do you have a source you can link please? it would solve a lot of problems for those believing only an embassy letter plus proof is acceptable post 1/1/19

 

 

[lamyai3]

19 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If wife is not ramping up the budget why do you think wife will stay with someone 20 years younger than her? She should get some benefits for staying with a person 20 years younger than her? And if she is not doing for any benefits, she is definitely not ramping up the budget

Some wives can actually have the effect of keeping a man's budget in check. If someone's wife or girlfriend (or someone in their extended family) is elevating their budget disproportionately, that's a problem for them alone - nobody held a gun to their head.

 

What surprises me is the broad lack of empathy shown on here to people who've managed to stay in country for years on a modest budget and support their families, who are now adversely affected by this ugly sweep by immigration. 

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The Immigration office that I use confirmed that monthly money deposited into Thai Bank from Oversees income is not acceptable.

Can you provide which office this monthly deposit is accepatble

What Office did you speak to and how did they say the 65K  has to be deposited- transfer?

[Curt1591]

2 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Show 65k in the bank? Without an embassy letter I thought the only option now was

400 / 800k THB in the bank for 3 months? Are any IO accepting direct proof of 65k income per month without embassy letter or is it universal?...Did I miss something?

 

I don't understand some people saying if you don't have the 800k to put in the bank you must be crooked. There must be a huge percentage of retirees / ex military etc living here on a pension that met the 65k per month requirement, but do not have the 800k. Probably chose to live here because they can have a better lifestyle than back home. Bit hard on the people that have wives and kids here and their whole life invested in the place. These people as a group still pouring a substantial amount of money into the Thai economy per month. May not have bitten yet but must be a huge amount of people leaving or planning to leaving 

Personally, I just don't really feel all that comfortable putting such a sum in a Thai bank - stability issues ...

"These people as a group still pouring a substantial amount of money into the Thai economy per month."

Had one pompous expat "English teacher" argue that his opinions are somehow more valid because he "contributes" more than tourists or retirees. Besides that fact that his ramblings demonstrate a marginal grasp of the English language, earning money here, to spend here, is the equivalent of taking money from one pocket and putting it in another - there is no gain for Thailand. Retirees, on the other hand, get their monies elsewhere, and spend it here. It's all income for Thailand.

[JohnOFphon]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

 

What surprises me is the broad lack of empathy shown on here to people who've managed to stay in country for years on a modest budget and support their families, who are now adversely affected by this ugly sweep by immigration. 

Yes, there is "a lack of empathy"..but not a surprise to me. Many A holes living here.

[phetpeter]

What about just rotate 65k every month into a Thai account and withdraw into another Thai account do that every month and then a bank statement confirming 65k in each month, there is nothing to say it has to remain in the account? it is for spending each month to live, or does it have to be proven it is coming from abroad then you could at a small cost jump back and forth from a PayPal type of account based not in Thailand.

[JLCrab]

It now takes your average IMM officer about 30-60 seconds to review the boiler-plate embassy affidavit income statement. The time to review original documents might take about 5 minutes or more and lots of judgment calls ... and an adding machine on the desk.

 

It might take less than one minute to review 6 - 12 deposits in a Thai bank passbook with a 3-digit code.

 

Next?

Edited November 10, 2018 by JLCrab

[cleopatra2]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

What Office did you speak to and how did they say the 65K  has to be deposited- transfer?

 They confirmed the deposit not acceptable. 

 

[cleopatra2]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

It now takes your average IMM officer about 30-60 seconds to review the boiler-plate embassy affidavit income statement. The time to review original documents might take about 5 minutes and lots of judgment calls ... and an adding machine on the desk.

 

It might take less than one minute to review 6 - 12 deposits in a Thai bank passbook with a 3-digit code.

 

Next?

You are correct.

The difference being at present the embassies are accountable for the income declaration. In future the IO has to make the judgement on if the Income is acceptable.

[Curt1591]

18 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Some wives can actually have the effect of keeping a man's budget in check. If someone's wife or girlfriend (or someone in their extended family) is elevating their budget disproportionately, that's a problem for them alone - nobody held a gun to their head.

 

What surprises me is the broad lack of empathy shown on here to people who've managed to stay in country for years on a modest budget and support their families, who are now adversely affected by this ugly sweep by immigration. 

"... this ugly sweep by immigration. "

Just to be clear., nothing has changed with Thai Immigration's policies. It is the retirees' respective embassy that are stuffing things up. 

[garyk]

IMO Thailand government does not want the letters what so ever. I doubt if the Embassy can do much about it.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Is there been a change in Thailand's attitudes to foreigners or any reason for the changes? I know there has been a crackdown on Illegals and undesirables. 

IMO the recent crackdown on aliens is an attempt by the Junta to curry favour with it's zenophobic base prior to the election. Similar to Trump's attacks on immigrants.

 

If I'm right this will all blow over after the election. Pity that 3 embassies decided not to ride the storm.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Spidey

[JLCrab]

As a stop against revolving door transactions, should the 65K+ monthly deposit route ever actually come into play, the IMM folks could say that the deposits must remain with no withdrawals in the account for 3 months prior to extension which would really be no different than the 3-month 'seasoning' requirement for the 800K in the bank route.

[JLCrab]

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

As a stop against revolving door transactions

On second thought they may just scuttle the whole monthly income thing -- Up UP and OA.

[pookiki]

Everyone -- please remember -- Thai immigration is still accepting income verification affidavits from other embassies.  Only the US, UK, and Australia embassies have decided to suspend this practice.  We need to be treated equally by our embassies and they must act on our behalf to find an equitable and workable solution to reinstate the issuance of income verification letters!