reported TM 30 and got fined

[ezzra]

Thought i'll do the right thing and go report the tenants i have in my rented units,

turned out, that as a landlord if you don't report them in the first 24 hours you

you'r in breach or the rules and thus liable to pay penalty of B. 1,100 per person

per unit, so i had to pay for the 5 people that stays in my units,

now, i was told that there's not getting away or circumventing the issue, as any tenant

that will ask to renew his/her visas and permits will be asked to show the receipt of the

TM30 that says his landlord has reported the tenant address as required... 

this is only concern landlords who rent out properties to foreigners....

[Maestro]

Ezzra, at what immigration office was this?

 

Incidentally, the receipt portion of the TM.30 form should correctly go to and remain with the person in whose name the notification is submitted.

 

As you probably do not always know when a tenant returns to his residence following an absence I suggest you consider making it in future the responsibility of the tenant, in his capacity of the house-master as defined in section 4 of the Immigration Act, to make the notification of the arrival of foreigners at his residence under section 38 of the Act. You can write this as a clause in the rental agreement or as an addendum to an existing agreement.

[Maestro]

Ezzra, it is the first time that I see the amount of 1,100 Baht mentioned as the fine for the late submission of the TM.30. Is this the amount shown on the receipt given to you by the immigration office?

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[ezzra]

9 hours ago, Maestro said:

Ezzra, at what immigration office was this?

 

Incidentally, the receipt portion of the TM.30 form should correctly go to and remain with the person in whose name the notification is submitted.

 

As you probably do not always know when a tenant returns to his residence following an absence I suggest you consider making it in future the responsibility of the tenant, in his capacity of the house-master as defined in section 4 of the Immigration Act, to make the notification of the arrival of foreigners at his residence under section 38 of the Act. You can write this as a clause in the rental agreement or as an addendum to an existing agreement.

It was yesterday at CW, and the term house master i think refers to the landlord is it not? ( hard to ascertain what they mean when drafting such silly laws) and the penalty is 1,100 baht per person, and than they also asks for copy of rental lease and copies of tennant passports and more and more copies of everything, real soviet ear like feelings...

[ubonjoe]

If you were fined as a business there is a max fine of 10k baht instead of 2k baht for an individual.

You should check with them about registering to do the reports online. This is the registration page on the reporting site. 

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

There is also info about it here. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/การแจ้งที่พักคนต่างด้าว

Online reporting requires no form or copies of anything.

[biggles45]

"this is only concern landlords who rent out properties to foreigners...."

 

no concern to Thai landlords I expect. My apartment building where I have rented for 9 years has 42 rooms. Mostly foreigners who, like me, come and go. Some I know do 90 day reports. The building manager has NEVER reported any residents return to Immigration and has never been fined. 

[kuzie57]

I rented a house for 3 years in CM and the landlord was a Thai woman ,she was fined 1600baht for not reporting my address. This only came about because I wanted to get a yellow book for the house that I built and immigration wanted to know my previous address.

 

[alex8912]

 Boy what a slap on the face! 

Ive read here at least a dozen times that CW Immigration does not require that reporting ( in practice) so why bother? 

Ive been coming to Bangkok for over 15 years for the winter as many others I know and no one does this. It would simply be overwhelming in Bangkok. 

Had there been some big change on this for Bangkok ?? 

The other paperwork they asked for is just ridiculous as well. Too bad you did what you thought was right. 

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, biggles45 said:

"this is only concern landlords who rent out properties to foreigners...."

 

no concern to Thai landlords I expect. My apartment building where I have rented for 9 years has 42 rooms. Mostly foreigners who, like me, come and go. Some I know do 90 day reports. The building manager has NEVER reported any residents return to Immigration and has never been fined. 

Thai and foreigner landlords as long as they have foreigners staying at their place. I am a foreigner owner renting some rooms and report on line, my neighbor is a Thai owner and does the same reporting on line

 

[Skeptic7]

No good deed goes unpunished. Should have played and stayed dumb  and quiet. Blissfully ignorant...and ฿5500 better off for it. 

[mlmcleod]

19 hours ago, Maestro said:

Ezzra, it is the first time that I see the amount of 1,100 Baht mentioned as the fine for the late submission of the TM.30. Is this the amount shown on the receipt given to you by the immigration office?

Receipt?? 5555555555

From immigration?? 5555555555

[Skeptic7]

46 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

 Boy what a slap on the face! 

Ive read here at least a dozen times that CW Immigration does not require that reporting ( in practice) so why bother? 

Ive been coming to Bangkok for over 15 years for the winter as many others I know and no one does this. It would simply be overwhelming in Bangkok. 

Had there been some big change on this for Bangkok ?? 

The other paperwork they asked for is just ridiculous as well. Too bad you did what you thought was right. 

They are overwhelmed and it is totally ridiculous. No one will ever look at any of those papers again. Even if they wanted to...wouldn't be able to find any. Last time I was in CW...piles and piles, stacks upon stacks of bundled paperwork that no one will ever look at again. Needless passport copies...ridiculous reporting paperwork and on and on. They made me copy every page of my passport with Thai ink on it...and that is the majority of the pages! What on earth for? 

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

They are overwhelmed and it is totally ridiculous. No one will ever look at any of those papers again. Even if they wanted to...wouldn't be able to find any. Last time I was in CW...piles and piles, stacks upon stacks of bundled paperwork that no one will ever look at again. Needless passport copies...ridiculous reporting paperwork and on and on. They made me copy every page of my passport with Thai ink on it...and that is the majority of the pages! What on earth for? 

And you know what I do now with my METV 60 day stays ?? 

Since 3 years ago I was fed up going to CW , it’s out of the way and for a simple 30 day extension ( that should be able to be done on line for free) I have to pay 1900 baht , after paying about 6500 baht for the visa with a lot of paperwork , income verification etc...then it really takes many hours , usually a full day because I’m not going there on MY holiday at 7 am . And they all take an hour lunch at the same time ( RIDICULOUS ) 

I just leave Thailand every time and go spend A LOT of $$ baht etc in another country!!!  I used to go away 3 days now I go 6/7 days. Many people do this that I know as well.  They should at least offer 90 day stays for tourist visa and METV it just makes sense. Who the hell is running that place? 

Now you try to do the right thing with TM 30 and what do you get? A fine and a HUGE waste of time. 

My Thai friend just submitted ( yes a lot of papers and one short interview ) for a USA visa.  Guess what he got? A 10 year multiple entry visa!  One payment and he never pays a penny for the next 10 years. 

[CanuckThai]

32 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

My Thai friend just submitted ( yes a lot of papers and one short interview ) for a USA visa.  Guess what he got? A 10 year multiple entry visa!  One payment and he never pays a penny for the next 10 years. 

Yip, my wife and her son have 5 year Canadian Visas, no additional paperwork, no reporting, no grief.  I'm envious of them (and choked with the hoops I go through here).

[alex8912]

31 minutes ago, CanuckThai said:

Yip, my wife and her son have 5 year Canadian Visas, no additional paperwork, no reporting, no grief.  I'm envious of them (and choked with the hoops I go through here).

Yes. It’s not super easy at first but when you follow the paperwork and maybe for Canada too , there is an interview , then they got 5 years !  

Its great!  Now you all can be spontaneous and fly off to Canada with a moments notice ( note it’s a little cold till May lol ) my same friend had 2 former Canadian visas ( for short stays) and when he applied for a third one got a 5 year visa as well that is still valid. My Thai friends still thinks it’s strange I have to have 20,000 baht ( or other currency in cash) every single time I arrive here AND I can’t use an ATM before Thai immigration ( there are none ). It’s simply archaic. I don’t want to do the retirement extension because I’m not here every 90 days etc. you have to have timing and you still have to go to immigration which I just hate! Now the 800k which I have but you still have to report !  I really feel for the guys ( and girls ) here who have been doing this for 5, 10, 15 ++ years. Shouldn’t at least this LONG term group be “ tested “ for perhaps once a year reporting?  They could just see how it goes. 

[CanuckThai]

7 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Yes. It’s not super easy at first but when you follow the paperwork and maybe for Canada too , there is an interview , then they got 5 years !  

Its great!  Now you all can be spontaneous and fly off to Canada with a moments notice ( note it’s a little cold till May lol ) my same friend had 2 former Canadian visas ( for short stays) and when he applied for a third one got a 5 year visa as well that is still valid. My Thai friends still thinks it’s strange I have to have 20,000 baht ( or other currency in cash) every single time I arrive here AND I can’t use an ATM before Thai immigration ( there are none ). It’s simply archaic. I don’t want to do the retirement extension because I’m not here every 90 days etc. you have to have timing and you still have to go to immigration which I just hate! Now the 800k which I have but you still have to report !  I really feel for the guys ( and girls ) here who have been doing this for 5, 10, 15 ++ years. Shouldn’t at least this LONG term group be “ tested “ for perhaps once a year reporting?  They could just see how it goes. 

The Canuck application is straight forward, thorough, but nothing out of the ordinary (I do/did the applications for them).  Yes, we travel back and forth often.  Coming and going for them is absolutely painless (except for the 20 hour flight and finding a suitable papaya for som tam).  Carrying B20K is a funny requirement, I do, but have never been asked to show it.  Yip, the financial hoops, reporting requirements, future uncertainties and available neighboring paradise(s), have me on the verge of nudging the wife: Lets blow this Popsicle stand and let the Chinese finish salting the fields....

[bkk6060]

Yes OP.  You unfortunately broke the rules that have been in place for awhile.  As a landlord in Thailand you should be educated and know better.

Everything you reported is accurate regarding this 24 hour rule which is the landlords responsibility and copy of your receipt of report/payment should be given to the tenant.

[zib]

Just do it online. Atleast saves you the trip to immigration and they cant fine you over the internet ????

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

Receipt?? 5555555555

From immigration?? 5555555555

It is only a fine if there is a receipt for it. Otherwise, it is a gift.

[Maestro]

20 hours ago, ezzra said:

It was yesterday at CW, and the term house master i think refers to the landlord is it not? ( hard to ascertain what they mean when drafting such silly laws) and the penalty is 1,100 baht per person, and than they also asks for copy of rental lease and copies of tennant passports and more and more copies of everything, real soviet ear like feelings...

The Thai term in sections 4 and 38 of the Immigration Act that is translated as "house-master" in the English translation used by immigration and as "householder" in the translation made available by the Council of State, aka the Cabinet, is as defined in said article 4 for the purposes of implementation of the Immigration Act.

 

For a private residence, there are three ways in which a person can be the house-master:

1. If the owner himself lives in the residence or if it is empty, "house-master" is defined as the chief possessor of the residence in his capacity of owner.
2. If the residence is rented out (British English: let), "house-master" is defined as the chief possessor of the residence in his capacity of tenant.
3. In all other cases, "house-master" is defined as the chief possessor of the residence in any other capacity.

From the context in which I have seen "landlord" used on the Thaivisa forum and in a public notice on a page on www.immigration.go.th, it is used as a synonym for "owner".

[SunsetT]

15 hours ago, alex8912 said:

And you know what I do now with my METV 60 day stays ?? 

Since 3 years ago I was fed up going to CW , it’s out of the way and for a simple 30 day extension ( that should be able to be done on line for free) I have to pay 1900 baht , after paying about 6500 baht for the visa with a lot of paperwork , income verification etc...then it really takes many hours , usually a full day because I’m not going there on MY holiday at 7 am . And they all take an hour lunch at the same time ( RIDICULOUS ) 

I just leave Thailand every time and go spend A LOT of $$ baht etc in another country!!!  I used to go away 3 days now I go 6/7 days. Many people do this that I know as well.  They should at least offer 90 day stays for tourist visa and METV it just makes sense. Who the hell is running that place? 

Now you try to do the right thing with TM 30 and what do you get? A fine and a HUGE waste of time. 

My Thai friend just submitted ( yes a lot of papers and one short interview ) for a USA visa.  Guess what he got? A 10 year multiple entry visa!  One payment and he never pays a penny for the next 10 years. 

If u leave every 60 days anyway u dont even need a METV. Save yourself money and just get a single entry 60 day tourist visa, no income proof or paperwork required, and get another one from a neighbouring Thai consulate each time you go out.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by SunsetT

[Joe Mcseismic]

For those people getting annual extensions for marriage, or retirement, you must have a current TM28, or TM30 slip stapled into your passport. Otherwise, no extension.

[bushwacker]

9 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

For those people getting annual extensions for marriage, or retirement, you must have a current TM28, or TM30 slip stapled into your passport. Otherwise, no extension. 

Of course it depends on the requirements of your particular immigration office.  I have been here for 10 years in the central part of the country and never had either form stapled into my passport.  That seems to be a major problem in this country i.e. each office has different requirements.

[StevieAus]

15 hours ago, CanuckThai said:

Yip, my wife and her son have 5 year Canadian Visas, no additional paperwork, no reporting, no grief.  I'm envious of them (and choked with the hoops I go through here).

That’s fine if you want to live in Canada but I don’t thank you.

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

For those people getting annual extensions for marriage, or retirement, you must have a current TM28, or TM30 slip stapled into your passport. Otherwise, no extension.

That depends upon the office where you apply for the extension.

I don't think any office requires a TM28 receipt unless you change addresses using one.

For a TM30 form it is certainly dependent upon the office.

I have applied for 11 extensions and have never been asked for a TM30 form or a TM28 form.

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That depends upon the office where you apply for the extension.

I don't think any office requires a TM28 receipt unless you change addresses using one.

For a TM30 form it is certainly dependent upon the office.

I have applied for 11 extensions and have never been asked for a TM30 form or a TM28 form.

 

Joe, on the TM28, the title is Form For Aliens to Notify There Change of Address Or Their Stay in the Province For Over 24 Hours.

I use this form when I come back into the country. As it says, it's a form for Aliens to register themselves. The TM30 is for a land-lord. I take the usual passport copies and my lease agreement for my house and land with the tax receipts. Never been refused.

Phuket won't give you an extension without a current TM28 or TM30 slip.

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Phuket won't give you an extension without a current TM28 or TM30 slip.

That explains everything. That is one office out of many.

But I can only recall the TM30 form being needed every time you enter the country not both.

 

20 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Their Stay in the Province For Over 24 Hours.

That is what it says in the title of the TM28 form but if you look near the end of the page you will see this which is what section 37 of the immigration act states.

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That explains everything. That is one office out of many.

But I can only recall the TM30 form being needed every time you enter the country not both.

 

That is what it says in the title of the TM28 form but if you look near the end of the page you will see this which is what section 37 of the immigration act states.

Thanks Joe. I'll stick to what works at Phuket Immigration.

If you haven't left the country and all details, especially the TM6 number is the same as on their system, then, you don't need to re-register your address. If the TM6 number has changed, or, your residential address is a hotel, you must update to a current TM30 / TM28 to get the extension. Makes sense to me.

[alex8912]

13 hours ago, SunsetT said:

If u leave every 60 days anyway u dont even need a METV. Save yourself money and just get a single entry 60 day tourist visa, no income proof or paperwork required, and get another one from a neighbouring Thai consulate each time you go out.

 

Why would I want to spend at least 2 visits on two different days at an immigration office on my vacation somewhere? You would also have to visit a place that has a consulate as well. That’s exactly why I don’t go to CW anymore. Sometimes I leave after 25 or 35 or 45 etc days as well. Would definitely be a pain for me. I’m also in and out of Thailand over a 6/7 month period.