Jobsworth In Immigration Today

[mercman24]

thought i would pop in today instead of Monday, as i was off to Bangkok, ok my mistake before you all jump on the bandwagon, Dragon lady say, money not in bank for the 90 days, (this is although i am over the threshold by 70,000 baht)  (1400 pounds) she was having none of it, i said i am not liket to spend 70,00 baht over the weekend, so the outcome is, i will have to go to the bank again get another letter, and do this all over again, and there is her boss across the way offering me a year retirement official stamp for 16,000 baht, grr

[Swiss1960]

You knew the rules before going, you tried to get immigration to bend the rules for you, you got rightfully rejected...

Did I miss something?

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[Bert Jones]

Which office was this at?

[JackThompson]

Only 16K Baht is a discount-rate for "waiving the seasoning" (can only be done by a higher ranking official) - likely because the agent-cut is absent. 

 

Good choice going through the rigamorle again, to do it correctly.  Enough is being asked, that proper channels are likely being covered - but you never know. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by JackThompson

[GeorgeCross]

so much for the BJ anti-corruption clean-up

 

this country never fails to disappoint me ????

[Swiss1960]

so much for the BJ anti-corruption clean-up
 
this country never fails to disappoint me [emoji20]

Why do you believe the angry claim of somebody who was just rejected trying to circumvent the rules?

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[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

Why do you believe the angry claim of somebody who was just rejected trying to circumvent the rules?

 

I believe them because it matches my experiences of corrupt immigration officers in Thailand.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Why do you believe the angry claim of somebody who was just rejected trying to circumvent the rules?

Per his report, he didn't try to circumvent the rule.  The power of a senior-IO to waive the seasoning would seem to be intended for exactly this type of scenario - only a few days short, but well-over the minimum.  But, of course, that is not what that authority is used for in-practice.

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Per his report, he didn't try to circumvent the rule.  The power of a senior-IO to waive the seasoning would seem to be intended for exactly this type of scenario - only a few days short, but well-over the minimum.  But, of course, that is not what that authority is used for in-practice.

Charging for it would be corruption that if reported might get some real results here.

[baansgr]

8 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

You knew the rules before going, you tried to get immigration to bend the rules for you, you got rightfully rejected...

Did I miss something?

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes, you missed a bit of compassion, common sense. The IO will now have to work the same again so rather than being sensible, has cut their nose to spite their face...happens all the time in land of S***

[Swiss1960]

Yes, you missed a bit of compassion, common sense. The IO will now have to work the same again so rather than being sensible, has cut their nose to spite their face...happens all the time in land of S***

I don't need compassion as my common sense tells me to do things by the book and also tells me how to treat people. So far, in all the years and all the dealings with immigration, police, amphoes or local municipalities, I NEVER had ANY Thai official treating me with disrespect or unfair or insensible or whatever.

But... maybe that is because i treat them the same way????

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[baansgr]

46 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

I don't need compassion as my common sense tells me to do things by the book and also tells me how to treat people. So far, in all the years and all the dealings with immigration, police, amphoes or local municipalities, I NEVER had ANY Thai official treating me with disrespect or unfair or insensible or whatever.

But... maybe that is because i treat them the same way????

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The point the OP is making is valid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobsworth

 

 

[simoh1490]

Sorry MMCM, the dragon lady was correct.

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Yes, you missed a bit of compassion, common sense. The IO will now have to work the same again so rather than being sensible, has cut their nose to spite their face...happens all the time in land of S***

from your comment I believe that you are one of those people who also consider traffic light only little bit red yet to be acceptable.

Edited November 16, 2018 by janclaes47

[janclaes47]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I believe them because it matches my experiences of corrupt immigration officers in Thailand.

In my more than 2 decades dealing with immigration I have never experienced a corrupt officer......or should I say I never have needed one because i always did it by the rules.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

In my more than 2 decades dealing with immigration I have never experienced a corrupt officer......or should I say I never have needed one because i always did it by the rules.

No, you have just been lucky / weren't in a category being targeted, yet.  Until I ran smack into the corruption, I had never experienced anything like that either - for years.  It gives one a false sense of security, which one learns the hard-way, is entirely illusory.  They can pull  the rug out at any time, for a made-up reason.  Being an honest / decent person, you are less likely to see it coming.  A crooked mind would probably be more prepared.

[Swiss1960]

The point the OP is making is valid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobsworth
 
 

So you expect immigration officers, policemen etc to have "common sense" and "compassion" for bending and breaking the rules they were hired to upkeep? Where does it end?
-2, 5 or 10 days short of 90d seasoning?
- 1, 3 or 5 seconds driving through red light?
- 5 or 20 days of overstay?
- let you drive while drunk until how much over the limit?
- tbc


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[Thailand]

Had a similar situation forced on me by a family members illness a 3 years ago. Had to get back to UK, funds were 5 days short, extension of stay was due to expire whilst I would be away.

I asked at immigratio in Chiangmai, an officer said no but I was direcited to a new unsigned shop almost next door. Surprise, for a fee my extension of stay was granted that same morning. In fact I was one of the first to use this service( one time only for me, normally diy), turned out it was the beginning of many problems for customers at that immigration office.

Hopefully currently resolved after the appearance of BJ, time will tell.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Swiss1960 said:

So you expect immigration officers, policemen etc to have "common sense" and "compassion" for bending and breaking the rules they were hired to upkeep? Where does it end?
-2, 5 or 10 days short of 90d seasoning?

But they offered to do just that, in exchange for a bribe.  If it were "rules are rules no matter what," at least that would be consistent.  In the "jobsworth" 2-day short seasoning-case, he was 70K Baht over the required minimum, so not much of a stretch to use his "authority to waive seasoning" to do it - but they used that as an opportunity to try to solicit a bribe, instead.

 

54 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Had a similar situation forced on me by a family members illness a 3 years ago. Had to get back to UK, funds were 5 days short, extension of stay was due to expire whilst I would be away.

I asked at immigratio in Chiangmai, an officer said no but I was direcited to a new unsigned shop almost next door. Surprise, for a fee my extension of stay was granted that same morning. In fact I was one of the first to use this service( one time only for me, normally diy),

It wouldn't be so bad, if it was only special-favors (a bit early, a few baht-short) which required "agent assistance," but, as you noted ...

 

54 minutes ago, Thailand said:

turned out it was the beginning of many problems for customers at that immigration office.

Yes, no doubt they began finding lots of "problems" which only the money through the guy next door could fix.  I've been through this first-hand - no special favors, all paperwork in-order and on-time - but "agent" service was the only option that would be accepted.

 

A really cute trick reported at that office, is requiring "appointments" for Non-O stamps, the dates of which begin way out in the future, while also increasing the "must apply with X days before your permitted-stay expires" time-frame.  This combination makes it impossible to get this service in-person, but with an agent-bribe - no problem.

 

54 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Hopefully currently resolved after the appearance of BJ, time will tell. 

That's not what BJ was installed to stop, it would seem  So far, they are only busting those who are trying to run their own independent bribe-services (i.e. "without sharing the loot").  With the embassy-letters going away, I predict the agent-business will be booming.  At most, they might have to throw a couple under-the-bus to make things look good.  Too bad they aren't publicly traded companies, or we could at least get dividends to offset part of the "handling fees" (which cost 10x the actual extension cost), which they will have everyone forking-over, sooner or later.

[baansgr]

2 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

So you expect immigration officers, policemen etc to have "common sense" and "compassion" for bending and breaking the rules they were hired to upkeep? Where does it end?
-2, 5 or 10 days short of 90d seasoning?
- 1, 3 or 5 seconds driving through red light?
- 5 or 20 days of overstay?
- let you drive while drunk until how much over the limit?
- tbc


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The examples you state are totally different  to the OPs situation.  Read what jobsworth means and maybe you will understand.  Seasoning  as we know is at the discretion  of the I. O which is his point, they could have done what he wanted but they didn't as they are a jobsworth 

[jacko45k]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:57 AM, Swiss1960 said:

Why do you believe the angry claim of somebody who was just rejected trying to circumvent the rules?

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Circumvent the rules or circumvent the required 16,000 to do so?

[KneeDeep]

Beginning to understand why they are giving some a hard time over tourist visas...... More money to be made it the Retirement/Marriage racket.

[onera1961]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:53 PM, GeorgeCross said:

so much for the BJ anti-corruption clean-up

But you knew this before settling here. Not a new revelation. Corruption is rampant in the society. When National Anti-Corruption Commission brushes aside high profile cases and focuses on political cases, you know corruption runs deep to the highest highest level. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by onera1961