Inmproving performance on Forza 300

[canerandagio]

Hi. Just bought my Forza 300 2018 yesterday.

Many good things about it, and a couple I want to improve.

Can I improve reactivity? I want it to become a bit more 'reactive' when I give gas.

I was told something about variator weights but am not an expert.

What would be the risks involved (it's a brand new bike and don't want to mess it up). I will do long distance trips, using it all day long at high speed and also major usage in bkk traffic.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

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[DILLIGAD]

Hi. Just bought my Forza 300 2018 yesterday.
Many good things about it, and a couple I want to improve.
Can I improve reactivity? I want it to become a bit more 'reactive' when I give gas.
I was told something about variator weights but am not an expert.
What would be the risks involved (it's a brand new bike and don't want to mess it up). I will do long distance trips, using it all day long at high speed and also major usage in bkk traffic.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
 
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You ‘might’ invalidate your Honda warranty if you adapt the engine.
If you’ve only had it a short time, do you not think the bike need time to ‘loosen-up’/run-in before you consider changes?
YSS shocks seem to be a popular improvement, so I hear.


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[Vacuum]

A loud exhaust system is the first step.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, canerandagio said:

What would be the risks involved it's a brand new bike and don't want to mess it up.

A lot of risks if not carried out correctly and a stupid idea on a new scoot, more power get a bigger powered scoot.

[lipflipper]

If you wanted more power you should have purchased the Yamaha Xmax 300 instead. You screwed up in the first place and now you want to get more power and run the real risk of voiding the Honda warrenty. Next time do better due diligence before you purchase.

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[OneMoreFarang]

 

[canerandagio]

If you wanted more power you should have purchased the Yamaha Xmax 300 instead. You screwed up in the first place and now you want to get more power and run the real risk of voiding the Honda warrenty. Next time do better due diligence before you purchase.

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An answer like this deserves no comment but I will give you one. You screwed up because you make the wrong assumption: i bought this bike because I want this bike, and it's none of your business if I want to have a forza and make it more reactive. If ypu don't like or understand this simple fact and have nothing useful to say go and troll off elsewhere.
It's my bike and not yours that I am asking about. Got it?


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[Kwasaki]

32 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Or this

[Poppadom]

Don't understand why you'd need better throttle response for long distance rides or big city traffic? Unless you always want to be the first dashing out at traffic lights or doing frantic sprints towards green lights? If you need a responsive bike that helps you overcompensate then go for a manual.

[canerandagio]

Or this

555 thanks. Done that before.

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[eisfeld]

I don't have a good suggestion for the OP but many people some to misunderstand what he's trying to do. He wants a more responsive throttle and not more power. That means when he twists the throttle, he wants less "lag" until the engine goes. The Forza being a CVT, there's always a bit of lag and I don't have direct experience with tuning those but I also heard that changing variator weights might give some improvement. But as mentioned, I wouldn't mess with this on a new bike because of warranty.

 

For the highway I would go with DILLIGAD's suggestion and get some YSS shocks. Not sure about the front though.

[moose7117]

https://thai.webike.net/en/parts/ca/1000-1180?q=honda forza&sort=price

 

http://www.yuminashi.eu/forza300-nss300-2013-2018/

 

https://www.powerbyforza.com/en/12-accessories-honda-forza-300

Edited November 18, 2018 by moose7117

[jackdd]

Variator weights won't change the throttle response, with them you can just adjust the acceleration and top speed a bit.

You can maybe optimize the length of the throttle cable a bit, but make sure it still has some free play if the handle bars are turned

[bkmbkk]

You can put lighter rolls (weights) in the variator and that will give you a more aggressive bike.

You must be carefull not to go too light as the bike than will not allow the variator to go to higest "gear" and you will always be travelling with higher rpm at lower speed. That will kill the bike in the end.

Test one step at the time (less a gram) each time and you can find the right setup

[DILLIGAD]

A loud exhaust system is the first step.

A perfect way to meet policemen!


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[moe666]

Contact Vocal Neill on this site he use to sale variators do not know if he still does

[Vacuum]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:19 AM, canerandagio said:

555 thanks. Done that before.

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Pusher or driver?

[canerandagio]

4 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Pusher or driver?

555 I actually drove my Cosa (Piaggio, Vespa's Cousin) from Delhi to London, and that image reminds me of the far east of Turkey on the way to Kas, near mount Ararat. I didn't push or get pushed, but I was close to doing so ???? when the petrol hose lost its way into the carburator. I never fixed anything in my life bikewise but oh boy, I turned into an instant mechanic when that happened and I was surrounded by the local kids ????

 

[canerandagio]

On 11/18/2018 at 10:46 AM, DILLIGAD said:

You ‘might’ invalidate your Honda warranty if you adapt the engine.
If you’ve only had it a short time, do you not think the bike need time to ‘loosen-up’/run-in before you consider changes?
YSS shocks seem to be a popular improvement, so I hear.


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Thanks, I will take your advice then, and that of the sensible guys below. I think giving it time to loosen-up is sensible. I am less concerned about the warrantly, but I am concerned of doing some damage or reducing the reliability, so I will stay put.

I had noticed room for improvement on the shock absorbers, so that's going to be my challenge. See my new post soon.

 

On 11/18/2018 at 12:19 PM, Poppadom said:

Don't understand why you'd need better throttle response for long distance rides or big city traffic? Unless you always want to be the first dashing out at traffic lights or doing frantic sprints towards green lights? If you need a responsive bike that helps you overcompensate then go for a manual.

Well, I enjoy dashing off at traffic lights (red or green, doesn't matter ???? ). I also enjoy responsiveness when I am leaving home and cross the car park before I join the traffic queue on Sukhumvit road. Also nothing beats a bit of reactivity when the car in front of you starts moving and you can press on the throttle for another few meters :)... Jokes apart, there is a whole world between being stuck in a traffic queue and being on an open stretch on the way to U(b/d)on or elsewhere... in this whole world lies the satisfaction of opening gas and getting some response, surely you will understand that.

As for the suggestion of getting a manual bike, well no, not for me: I want to improve on reactivity but I am not ready to give up on my comfy seat, on my huge space under the seat, on the comfort of a scooter etc. ????

PS - Now that I satisfied your curiosity, try to help me with my next question please. Can I improve on shock absorbers (it's a Forza), front and back... , and no, I don't want to get a comfy car or an offroad bike... just want a better experience on my scooter when I hit a pothole ????

 

On 11/18/2018 at 12:27 PM, eisfeld said:

I don't have a good suggestion for the OP but many people some to misunderstand what he's trying to do. He wants a more responsive throttle and not more power. That means when he twists the throttle, he wants less "lag" until the engine goes. The Forza being a CVT, there's always a bit of lag and I don't have direct experience with tuning those but I also heard that changing variator weights might give some improvement. But as mentioned, I wouldn't mess with this on a new bike because of warranty.

 

For the highway I would go with DILLIGAD's suggestion and get some YSS shocks. Not sure about the front though.

Best answer so far, thanks.

 

On 11/18/2018 at 12:42 PM, bkmbkk said:

You can put lighter rolls (weights) in the variator and that will give you a more aggressive bike.

You must be carefull not to go too light as the bike than will not allow the variator to go to higest "gear" and you will always be travelling with higher rpm at lower speed. That will kill the bike in the end.

Test one step at the time (less a gram) each time and you can find the right setup

Excellent, thanks. Good to know. Do you think, if this was done as you said in a moderate way, I could get the improvement I am looking for without compromising the ability to be also very demanding on long haul travel (400-600 km in a day)?

Edited November 19, 2018 by canerandagio

[giddyup]

Seems like you want to make a lot of improvements to a brand new bike, lag time, shockers, one wonders, as someone else pointed out, whether you made the right choice in the first place.

[canerandagio]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Seems like you want to make a lot of improvements to a brand new bike, lag time, shockers, one wonders, as someone else pointed out, whether you made the right choice in the first place.

I am a perfectionist... I think with my own head, and I make as many changes to the bike as I want... (last time I checked I did not find you among those I have to report to about my decisions lol).

Now, if you have anything useful to say about the question please do, otherwise I suggest you go for a jog...  

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, canerandagio said:

I am a perfectionist... I think with my own head, and I make as many changes to the bike as I want... (last time I checked I did not find you among those I have to report to about my decisions lol).

Now, if you have anything useful to say about the question please do, otherwise I suggest you go for a jog...  

If you want to post on this forum you have to accept that you will receive criticisms, bad advice, good advice as well as no advice, so if the heat's too hot to bear.......

[canerandagio]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

If you want to post on this forum you have to accept that you will receive criticisms, bad advice, good advice as well as no advice, so if the heat's too hot to bear.......

You too my dear... ????

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, canerandagio said:

You too my dear... ????

For someone who is a one post wonder, I don't see your time here as long.

[canerandagio]

34 minutes ago, giddyup said:

For someone who is a one post wonder, I don't see your time here as long.

Look dear, I already gave you three opportunities for increasing your total posts, so your count is 12,987 and you should be content with that.  Post counts are not my priority in life, I have other things in life to worry about than increasing my posts count, I ask questions when I need and I answer politely and exhaustively when I can... so we'll leave it at that, to me my life and to you your post counts.

Thanks for your contribution so far, and if you want to increase your post count further please find me a bike that has the same specs as a Forza with better reactivity and better shock absorber (it has to be a Honda, I like Honda) and it has to be 300 cc. If you can find it for me I will concede to you that you are right, I chose the wrong bike, otherwise I'm afraid we'll have to leave it at that, ching ching... 555

PS - The suggestion to jog-off is still on...

PPS - You remind me of those dogs that guard their territory at night barking out at strangers, but I ought to remind you that your twice repeated wish/advice of me moving away from your territory will not be successful, I will stay and I will keep using the forum exactly for what it was conceived... exchange information. As for you, keep protecting your territory, but I suggest you find someone else to bark at, as I already removed you off my list of worthy interlocutors so you won't get responses. ???? bye dear ... jog off, or if you prefer... giddy up 555 ????

Edited November 19, 2018 by canerandagio

[giddyup]

36 minutes ago, canerandagio said:

  I already removed you off my list of worthy interlocutors so you won't get responses.    

Favour returned.

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

Seems like you want to make a lot of improvements to a brand new bike, lag time, shockers, one wonders, as someone else pointed out, whether you made the right choice in the first place.

Suspension on most bikes from factory will not be ideal because it's a compromise. Desired stability, comfort, rider (+pillion) weight, roads etc all play into this and there isn't a one-size-fits-all yet (electronicly controlled suspensions are getting closer) so that's something that many people want to change and I'm actually surprised that no manufacturer actually offers at least springs appropriate for the riders weight from the showroom.

 

The "lag" is something that for someone who road a normally geared bike can be slightly annoying. Unfortunately so is the nature of CVTs and afaik one can't ever make it go away.

 

I actually think the OPs desired changes are suprisingly sensible. He focuses on everything that really defines how a bike rides. Contrast that to most others who put "bling" on their bike that does f-all. The bikes from other manufacturers in the same price class are not night-and-day different to the Forza. At least when it comes to scooters. So what should he really do?

[canerandagio]

3 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Suspension on most bikes from factory will not be ideal because it's a compromise. Desired stability, comfort, rider (+pillion) weight, roads etc all play into this and there isn't a one-size-fits-all yet (electronicly controlled suspensions are getting closer) so that's something that many people want to change and I'm actually surprised that no manufacturer actually offers at least springs appropriate for the riders weight from the showroom.

 

The "lag" is something that for someone who road a normally geared bike can be slightly annoying. Unfortunately so is the nature of CVTs and afaik one can't ever make it go away.

 

I actually think the OPs desired changes are suprisingly sensible. He focuses on everything that really defines how a bike rides. Contrast that to most others who put "bling" on their bike that does f-all. The bikes from other manufacturers in the same price class are not night-and-day different to the Forza. At least when it comes to scooters. So what should he really do?

Thanks for the sensible advice. It looks like I just have to get used to it: a bit more bumpy experience and the 'lag'. I am actually very happy with the purchase, it's just like a new pair of shoes: you notice the differences from the old comfy ones. Contrarily to shoes though you can at least consider improvements... ???? 

[uwe_rayong]

I have the Forza and a friend with a Xmax. Both scooter are very similar. If both scooter are standard the Xmax is a little bit more responsive and a little faster, the emphasis is on little. 
On a 3km stretch something like 3-5 seconds. 
In my opinion both fast enough, I prefer reliability.  However Chip Tuning, exhaust, Vario everything is available to make it more responsive and to increase the top speed as well.

 

Google "Set by Sar" in Bangkok Lat Phrao.

 

I think aftermarket shock absorber are a very popular accessorise on both scooters. Google YSS or Öhlins. By the way, the standard absorber on the Forza are also adjustable in 5 steps.

Prices starts around 8k for YSS but you can also invest around 25k THB for the top model from Öhlins.   
The aftermarket absorber are adjustable in several ways and countless clicks, so you can adjust them how you want, not just 5 clicks as the standard version. 

 

 

 

[canerandagio]

I have the Forza and a friend with a Xmax. Both scooter are very similar. If both scooter are standard the Xmax is a little bit more responsive and a little faster, the emphasis is on little. 
On a 3km stretch something like 3-5 seconds. 
In my opinion both fast enough, I prefer reliability.  However Chip Tuning, exhaust, Vario everything is available to make it more responsive and to increase the top speed as well.
 
Google "Set by Sar" in Bangkok Lat Phrao.
 
I think aftermarket shock absorber are a very popular accessorise on both scooters. Google YSS or Öhlins. By the way, the standard absorber on the Forza are also adjustable in 5 steps.

Prices starts around 8k for YSS but you can also invest around 25k THB for the top model from Öhlins.   
The aftermarket absorber are adjustable in several ways and countless clicks, so you can adjust them how you want, not just 5 clicks as the standard version. 
 
 
[/url]  

Thanks for the well thought answer. I did a lot of research between Xmax and Forza and went for the latter well conscious of the differences you mentioned. Height, colour, the Honda brand and the more comfortable asset for long haul trips made me opt for the Forza and I love it.
Two unexpected big surprises in positive: the rear view mirrors positioned where they are on the Forza allow you to switch between the road ahead and the mirrors without refocusing your eyes. A great idea and I am sure Yamaha will pick it up too.
The other unexpected surprise is the balancing. Can't feel the weight at all and in traffic it almost stands by utself even at low speed.
Two questions: the 8k for YSS is for a pair or for the front and back?
And... did you change your shock absorbers ?
Lastly, can both be adjusted front and back?

Thanks!



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