Need advice for hot water tab in my Condo kitchen

[gessi2000]

Hello,

 

I would like to have a hot+cold mixer tab in my Condos kitchen as currently it's just cold water with a single cold water pipe/connector in my kitchen.

 

I was at Homepro and they advice a 6000W water heater but I would need to ask in my Condo in advance for an additional warm water pipe as the cold one is not enough.

 

However the water heater would be around 6k and then I need some electric and water cables or pipes as well as a new tab.

 

I also wondering why I would need an additional warm water pipe before installation?

 

Any recommendations what to do and how to get this done?

[rodentwarrior]

All you need is an in-line water heater, with a cold water feed into it.  A decent plumber can use the existing cold water feed with a splitter.

 

Make sure the heater unit is properly earthed.

 

An example of an in-line water heater is an electric shower.

[Lacessit]

Homepro, Global House and Thai Watsadu all have water heaters ranging in price from 3500 baht to 7000 baht. The salesperson was probably trying to upsell you, a very common practice.

You don't need any other water supply. Just adjust the temperature of the water coming out of the heater with the dial on the front, combined with the flow of water. It didn't take me long to learn.

If you only want cold water, just trip out the reset on the side.

[gessi2000]

Thank you guys! That was exactly what I was expecting.

 

In terms of water heater power... Is it really required to purchase a 6000w modell?

[Lacessit]

28 minutes ago, gessi2000 said:

Thank you guys! That was exactly what I was expecting.

 

In terms of water heater power... Is it really required to purchase a 6000w modell?

It depends on how quickly you want the hot water. Lower wattage models take a bit longer to heat up.

[Patriot1066]

20 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It depends on how quickly you want the hot water. Lower wattage models take a bit longer to heat up.

We use the 6 kw generally ok but have changed ones in bathrooms to 8kw as otherwise takes more time for the bath to fill out.

 

The kitchens dead easy as you just need an adapter to take single supply to two then take one to the heater and the other to the cold tap, then a flex from the heater out to the hot tap.

 

From experience make sure the hoses are suitable for the heat as we have had a couple decay on the hot side due to rubber going soft.

 

biggest issue is getting power from experience.

 

 

[Crossy]

You MUST use a "multipoint" water heater, these are designed to feed a tap and have a flow controlled heater. You must NOT use a shower heater, these are intended to feed a shower head directly, feeding a tap with one of these could result in issues (explosion, fire and the like).

 

I've not seen a multipoint less than 6kW, that's really a bit big for a single sink but you could turn it down.

 

The problem is going to be power. 6kW (27A) is too much to draw from a regular 16A outlet so it will need a dedicated feed from your distribution panel.

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

22 minutes ago, Crossy said:

You MUST use a "multipoint" water heater, these are designed to feed a tap and have a flow controlled heater. You must NOT use a shower heater, these are intended to feed a shower head directly, feeding a tap with one of these could result in issues (explosion, fire and the like).

 

I've not seen a multipoint less than 6kW, that's really a bit big for a single sink but you could turn it down.

 

The problem is going to be power. 6kW (27A) is too much to draw from a regular 16A outlet so it will need a dedicated feed from your distribution panel.

 

 

As usual Crossy is correct.  Here is the under sink unit I have in my kitchen.  The OP will probably have to have the electricians in his condo wire it up for him but it is a nice simple unit. and needs no additional piping, just the electrical supply  

 

[longball53098]

But not adjustable and 6k heat is very hot water at a sink. Could be dangerous

[Crossy]

You could use an over-sink unit like this https://www.screwfix.eu/triton-t30i-bq3a3034i-handwash-3kw-oversink-water-heater.html which will run off a regular outlet circuit. 

 

 

I've not seen one here, but that doesn't mean they're not available.

 

[Daffy D]

Or one of these:-

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/tankless-electric-water-heater-faucet-kitchen-heating-hot-cold-water-tap-kitchen-accessories-i255778666-s394487761.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.63.20f73576wXwFXz&search=1

 

[Langsuan Man]

37 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

But not adjustable and 6k heat is very hot water at a sink. Could be dangerous

I mix it with the cold water line at the faucet, via a Y connector, like so (just like you do with a shower)

 

  

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

You MUST use a "multipoint" water heater, these are designed to feed a tap and have a flow controlled heater. You must NOT use a shower heater, these are intended to feed a shower head directly, feeding a tap with one of these could result in issues (explosion, fire and the like).

 

I've not seen a multipoint less than 6kW, that's really a bit big for a single sink but you could turn it down.

 

The problem is going to be power. 6kW (27A) is too much to draw from a regular 16A outlet so it will need a dedicated feed from your distribution panel.

 

 

I didn't know that.

In my condo, I have a Redring brand water heater which supplies hot water to both the shower and the washbasin, tucked away in a cupboard under the wash basin. Has an ELCB trip on the side. Does this qualify as "multipoint"? One water supply in, two out. Has been trouble free for 9 years, 5 year guarantee.

[Crossy]

58 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have a Redring brand water heater which supplies hot water to both the shower and the washbasin, tucked away in a cupboard under the wash basin.

Yes, those Redring units are multipoint (we have three).

 

The heaters I'm referring to as "shower heaters" are the ones which are usually installed in the shower cubicle with the shower head directly connected via a flexy hose. they have the on/off and flow control on the inlet side of the heater.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Daffy D said:

Or one of these:-

 

I was looking at similar beasties on AliExpress.

 

If you use one it is vital that it is properly connected (earthed) and fed by an RCD/RCBO for your safety.

 

Only 800 Baht? Madam spent twice that on just a regular kitchen sink tap ????

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

I was looking at similar beasties on AliExpress.

 

If you use one it is vital that it is properly connected (earthed) and fed by an RCD/RCBO for your safety.

 

Only 800 Baht? Madam spent twice that on just a regular kitchen sink tap ????

 

 

 

At that price it probably has the same innards as the "suicide shower" fittings, which run the water over the live heating elements so I wouldn't have anything to do with it no matter how much protection is added.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjA0aee07k

[Crossy]

11 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

At that price it probably has the same innards as the "suicide shower" fittings, which run the water over the live heating elements so I wouldn't have anything to do with it no matter how much protection is added.

Actually "bare wire" heating elements are very common and if correctly implemented and installed very safe. The Stiebel Eltron DHM 6 is post #8 is in fact bare wire. https://www.stiebel-eltron.com/en/home/products-solutions/dhw/instantaneous_waterheater/mini_instantaneouswaterheater/dhm_mini_instantaneouswaterheater/dhm_6.html

 

Of course I wouldn't class the beast in the video (and likely the cheapies on AliExpress) as "correctly implemented".

 

I like a nice solidly grounded copper container around the element for that warm, fuzzy (not buzzy) feeling.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Actually "bare wire" heating elements are very common and if correctly implemented and installed very safe. The Stiebel Eltron DHM 6 is post #8 is in fact bare wire. https://www.stiebel-eltron.com/en/home/products-solutions/dhw/instantaneous_waterheater/mini_instantaneouswaterheater/dhm_mini_instantaneouswaterheater/dhm_6.html

 

Of course I wouldn't class the beast in the video (and likely the cheapies on AliExpress) as "correctly implemented".

 

I like a nice solidly grounded copper container around the element for that warm, fuzzy (not buzzy) feeling.

Completely with you on the proper install needed, as the hot tap is even more dangerous than the shower heads due to the conductivity of the streem of water, so all you need is one hand to be holding or touching an earthed item the other in the water, the contacts not to break correctly  and you have a potential for death or the walk buzz going up one arm through your body and down the other 

 

install this way???

 

Does the tap even have a Earth point?

[Fruit Trader]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

I like a nice solidly grounded copper container around the element for that warm, fuzzy (not buzzy) feeling.

 

 

[topt]

On 11/23/2018 at 8:08 AM, longball53098 said:

But not adjustable and 6k heat is very hot water at a sink. Could be dangerous

I have one of the Redwing models mentioned earlier, fitted under the kitchen sink, which I think is 6kw. At least it is slightly variable and when set on Medium, opening with a simple mixer tap set fully to the hot side, it is reasonably hot but definitely not "boiling hot". 

Although if the gf does not realise I have just used it for hot water she gets a shock.........

[gessi2000]

Upps... you make me some concerns now...

 

The Condo guy installed now a 2nd hand (1000,--THB) water heater (6KW) and a new tab for me which works pretty well. He put some splitter between the cold water pipe and the tab/water heater.

 

Is this secure? Works straight forward and obviously power is no issue as well as he took this from next kitchen door's oven.

[Crossy]

If the water is not too hot then that's ok.

 

My only concern would be electrical. 6kW is about 27A, rather more than the rating of a regular outlet circuit (20A). Is the oven on its own breaker? Amp rating?

[Patriot1066]

On 11/24/2018 at 10:17 AM, topt said:

I have one of the Redwing models mentioned earlier, fitted under the kitchen sink, which I think is 6kw. At least it is slightly variable and when set on Medium, opening with a simple mixer tap set fully to the hot side, it is reasonably hot but definitely not "boiling hot". 

Although if the gf does not realise I have just used it for hot water she gets a shock.........

We use a similar system at ours just tap off the cold with a T fitting then use a mixer tap, of course you need electric under the sink!

 

We use an 8 kw and it runs either the sink, bath or shower and is hot enough and has enough flow for the bath. We ran the pipes before the bathroom was completed so the heater is hidden under the sink cupboards and feeds all three, the biggest issue we have is the flow through the sink mixer tap not activating the pump (Hitachi) but I got around it by taking the end tap filter diffuser out to increase flow, bit of a work around but worked well for over 7 years.

 

i can send plans on how to do it if you PM me ????

 

 

 

[Shengen]

This is normally the only warning sign before the water heater is fixing to rupture. It probably has a pin size hole right now. Especially, if you do not see it leaking from any of the exposed surfaces. I would recommend calling a licensed plumber to look it over as soon as possible, or you might be calling a plumber and a water remediation company. It is truly impressive the amount of water a 1" plus water line can leak out onto the floor, in a short period of time. I wouldn't worry with how old the water heater is, the newer ones do not last nearly as long as they use too. 

[sometimewoodworker]

47 minutes ago, Shengen said:

I would recommend calling a licensed plumber to look it over as soon as possible

Good luck with finding one of those.

[RideJocky]

If you don’t have a lot of power, using a “boiler” and a mixing tap is a good solution.