Shops charging 1 or 2% for using visa machine in the store

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

https://www.finder.com.au/credit-cards/credit-card-statistics

 

Like I said, cash is King, and I will add, credit cards are a trap for the customer by charging (high interest rates & annual fees) and the businesses pay a % which comes off their profits, so the banks bend both the customer and the business proprietor over, as for debit cards, I am well aware there are no charges as this is the only type of card I use, plus cash.

 

As for the 20 and 30 year olds who are spending up big today on cards, well, their future is also cast in concrete isn't it.

 

 

Maybe people have more than one credit card and have no balance on that one ( or as your link shows none on any card) Many as I stated use a debit card and you now agree with this. A credit AND debit card can be the exact SAME card. If you read several other posts cash is not king. Why you need to go back and fourth does not make that silly phrase correct. Transfers of cash cost $$$ into you accounts. It takes too long at checkouts. It’s filthy. It is super easy to steal. It’s what criminals look for if they want easy targets. It’s not a large part of the 21st century. 

By the ways you never ever mentioned that you WERE talking about your friends restaurant in Sydney in your FIRST post. You never addressed how many people DO NOT go to his restaurant because they saw bad reviews regarding cash only. You don’t discuss how many customers DO NOT go back for a second or third visit because they were FORCED to use cash. You must know how when people are pissed off they are 10x more likely to write a negative review. CASH is not even close to being QUEEN! Welcome to the 21 st century where more and more establishments DO NOT accept cash! Go google that it’s much more relevant. Oh and to get some to agree with you please ask your local thief or bar girl who will bring you home and drug and rob you.  They will def agree that cash IS preferred. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by alex8912

[Pib]

11 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I'm retired, I can afford an extra 15 seconds in McD to pay for my breakfast, it won't break my schedule and the 1.5% cashback I have lost....2 baht, are you serious!

When you are paying for most everything with a cash back card (little or big purchases), that cash back adds up fast to significant money.  

[coops]

2 hours ago, uwe_rayong said:

 

 

If you use Paypal the seller gets your Paypal email address with each payment and I would consider the Paypal registered email address as an important one.

So if you buy an item via ebay with a "junk address" or guest login and pay via Paypal, your Paypal registered address is also submitted to the buyer. 

 

If you use your credit card frequently your credit card company has a nice buyer profile of what and where you like to buy your stuff.
Same as those Customer Cards from Big C, Tesco etc.

 

Credit card companies sale those data to online advertisers for good money.

 

So don't use your private email for those purposes.

 

Paypal doesn't have my 'good' email address, nor does any of my credit card issuers... or even my UK Bank. Any spam, if there is, goes to my junk excite email address. Why would you willingly hand over your good/clean email address to these people if you know they sell your address on etc etc? Don't, and then enjoy a spam free POP3/IMAP email account. (If I was a Paypal seller etc or very heavy user and absolutely needed an email to my laptop email then I'd setup a separate one for them to keep the spam away).

[MyFriend You]

we were paid the total money less 400 baht for the fees..............Okay, I am not a established business man, but when the machine was installed didn't the KTV Bank agree to pay you something every month or week for them placing the Machine on your premisis??   What is your cost to use this ATM??  electricity?? Internet??  or is this just a card reader at the register that people can pay their bill with??  Color me a bit confused at this whole subject.   

 

  I am consistantly charged 1-3% additional when I use my USA Visa card.....just bought an item for 35,330 baht was charged 2% = 706 baht, it is a charge I am willing to accept, so for me to use a local debit card at a register, 1% would be acceptable since it is my choice to use the card.   

 

   I many previous posts I have vehemently been opposed to being 'ripped off'  even for a few baht, but this is my choice, so even 2 or 3% charge would not be a rip off to me. So Ubon1971, charge away, it's a cost of doing business and no one is in business to lose money.

[uwe_rayong]

3 minutes ago, coops said:

 

So don't use your private email for those purposes.

 

Paypal doesn't have my 'good' email address, nor does any of my credit card issuers... or even my UK Bank. Any spam, if there is, goes to my junk excite email address. Why would you willingly hand over your good/clean email address to these people if you know they sell your address on etc etc? Don't, and then enjoy a spam free POP3/IMAP email account. (If I was a Paypal seller etc or very heavy user and absolutely needed an email to my laptop email then I'd setup a separate one for them to keep the spam away).

 

 

OK, for me Paypal is a payment partner. They have top priority on my email list. 
Most online sellers use and monitoring at least a dozen email addresses, as you want for every market or seller profile a different address.

 

However, you conveniently overlooked the fact that Credit card companies also save and sale all those data they collect.  So if you like to live an anonymous "buyer life" a Credit card will not be very beneficial for that. 

 

However, I learned something through this thread discussion.
1.)  Most people like to use Credit cards. 
2.) They don't like to get hit with the transaction fee on top and expect it to be included in the sales price or be "free".

3.) They don't understand that it cost money if a 3rd party is involved in a transaction.

4.) They don't understand that if you get 1.5% cashback, that you probably already paid 3% or more then it was necessary.

 

So quintessence is:  
Factor in all possible sales associated costs that may appear and split the cost on all buyers. 

Don't communicate to the buyer that a cash discount is possible unless he/she specifically asks for it. <----- That I learned from this thread ! 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, alex8912 said:

By the ways you never ever mentioned that you WERE talking about your friends restaurant in Sydney in your FIRST post. You never addressed how many people DO NOT go to his restaurant because they saw bad reviews regarding cash only. You don’t discuss how many customers DO NOT go back for a second or third visit because they were FORCED to use cash.

I could keep going on to try to get through, but some are just adamant that they are right, so I will stop there.

 

As for my friends business, your delusional, suffice to say, many a times it is referred to as grand central station, that's how busy it is, so I would say if the plastic cards that are not accepted there pi$$ people off, he wouldn't notice as on an average day the que's are into the street just to get a seat, nuff said.

[StreetCowboy]

7 hours ago, uwe_rayong said:

 

 

OK, for me Paypal is a payment partner. They have top priority on my email list. 
Most online sellers use and monitoring at least a dozen email addresses, as you want for every market or seller profile a different address.

 

However, you conveniently overlooked the fact that Credit card companies also save and sale all those data they collect.  So if you like to live an anonymous "buyer life" a Credit card will not be very beneficial for that. 

 

However, I learned something through this thread discussion.
1.)  Most people like to use Credit cards. 
2.) They don't like to get hit with the transaction fee on top and expect it to be included in the sales price or be "free".

3.) They don't understand that it cost money if a 3rd party is involved in a transaction.

4.) They don't understand that if you get 1.5% cashback, that you probably already paid 3% or more then it was necessary.

 

So quintessence is:  
Factor in all possible sales associated costs that may appear and split the cost on all buyers. 

Don't communicate to the buyer that a cash discount is possible unless he/she specifically asks for it. <----- That I learned from this thread ! 

 

 

I think that the credit card companies do not settle their bills immediately, so there is a working capital issue as well

[direction BANGKOK]

11 hours ago, uwe_rayong said:

I doubt that. The governments around the world love cashless transactions.
It makes the tax collection so much easier, if every payment for a purchase or service you receive has a digital trace.

 

 

 

 

We just hand over more and more power every day to governments and corporations the more we use cc. They give people peanuts back like a free flight after however many transactions. Of course the bankers are making bundles in the meantime. 

 

It is interesting, one poster asked "what privacy issues". That right there will tell you how good credit card company propoganda and suppression of information is. 

 

Take the expediency of cc use off the table, if they are in fact faster I am not sure but let's say they are, there is nothing but negatives with the use of credit cards. The govt has way more power and leverage, as do corporations, they have more free marketing information they can sell and shove back in your face. These cc purchase profiles are a nightmare and only going to get worse. 

 

Bottom line, if everyone stopped using cc tomorrow the people would gain more power over their own lives and purchases. I get in srguments with friends about this all the time... what do we buy?? We buy things that are in our faces, whether you know it or not that is how we consume goods. We are essentially living in a world where all the purchasing patterns we have get regurgitated back in front of us over and over and it controls us. You think you ordered a Newcastle because you like the taste? You ordered a newcastle because there was a brilliant marketing campaign somewhere along the line where consumer habits via cc purchases were bought and paid for with your own money. We are subsidzing the commercials that get put in our face today. Cash for everything turns the tables and essentially levels the playing field for the advertisers.

 

Anyway, I am just getting started on this topic because honestly cc ruin people's lives in about a million ways that cash never could, but i will end it there. 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by direction BANGKOK

[direction BANGKOK]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

When you are paying for most everything with a cash back card (little or big purchases), that cash back adds up fast to significant money.  

Until you open your own business one day, and everyone has been completely brainwashed into using credit for every single transaction, and as a business you end up paying the fees, which as you say are significant.

 

But i would agree actually, if you do not care about privacy of your transactions, and if you pay everything off, you will make money off the cards and it is a good deal. I am just demanding you realize that collectively it is NOT a good deal, as people and businesses are generally getting screwed. 

 

Look at what cc companies have done. I am gonna try to stop soon because I could write a book. You have to, it would not be good, you HAVE to use credit to live in a apartment, at least in California. You HAVE to use their product. It does not stop there though, you HAVE to be in good standing with the cc company via credit reports. They have essentially extorted the world into using their products, AND being good clients! That is amazing!! Name me one other business, say Apple, that makes you buy their products? Makes you. But it would not end there, you eould have to be a stellar client and never miss buying a new product to keep up with the cc analogy... or else you can't LIVE in an apartment. It is insane, and we all have not only let this happen, we rejoice about it and say oh wow it is so great I get to swipe my little card here and there. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by direction BANGKOK

[TonyClifton]

On 11/27/2018 at 11:07 AM, ubonr1971 said:

As a consumer are you put off by having to pay 1% fee to pay by a visa machine in a shop? Would you shop elsewhere to avoid having to pay this fee in the future?

It's against your TOS with VISA/Mastercard.

No one likes paying a fee.  Why should we?

 

I will help you.

 

Stop charging a surcharge fee.  Offer a discount for cash.

[uwe_rayong]

8 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

It's against your TOS with VISA/Mastercard.

No one likes paying a fee.  Why should we?

 

I will help you.

 

Stop charging a surcharge fee.  Offer a discount for cash.

You like that method more, because it gives you the feeling that you used your Credit card without any additional charges, right?
Credit card companies also like that method. But in reality usually an extra is an extra.

 

Maybe Thai Government should also apply that system for there National Parks. 

 

Entrance fee for everybody is 200 Baht per Person.

(in case you are holder of a Thai ID card you can proceed to our cash back centre upon leaving the park, and claim a 90% discount????).

 

That way the tourists can no longer complain about two tiered pricing in Thailand, as everybody pays the same price. 

[MadMuhammad]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:12 PM, uwe_rayong said:

I'm OK with a CC card fee. It is your choice to use the card (collect points, have insurance for the purchase etc.) or not use the card.

The usage of the card is connected with an additional fee that the seller pays, if he accepts the card.  And Cards like Diners Club or Amex are not cheap for the seller.

With the opinion "please don't charge me on top", you expect anybody to pay for your choice. 

 

With other words, each customer that pays  cash has also to subsidise the customers that use the CC. (cash handling, bank visits etc are all neglible for small businesses, they have to go to the bank anyway).

 

 

That said, since most people tend to only and ever look at this problem from there point of view, factor the CC fee in the selling price. It is better to communicate to the customer.

If you have large customer and you suspect that he is a little bit brighter then the other, you can offer 3% discount for cash payments.

 

CC payments not only charge the fee, you also have the chargeback risk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So by your theory when I shop and only buy dry, boxed or tinned goods I’m subsidising everyone else that purchases the refrigerated goods via the costs of running the business that are factored into their pricing as a whole. 

[mogandave]

I think it depends on who you’re targeting. Tourists? Eat the charge.

[mogandave]

I think it depends on who you’re targeting. Tourists? Eat the charge.

[StreetCowboy]

My experience is that a credit card fee is most common on high turnover, low margin businesses - back in the day, travel agents, for example.  The agent’s margin was only a few per cent, so for him, a 2% credit card fee was crippling. Also, he had to pay the airline and hotel on booking, while the credit card company paid at the end of the month, or the next month. So as well as the fee, he has the cost of working capital, at 1% or 2% per month.

[stevenl]

As a shopowner, a cc transaction costs me almost 4%. Why would I raise my prices with that for the convenience of a few, who want to pay by credit card for their advantage?

 

EU members can pay to my euro account foc, so for me this only affects USA, Sweden and UK. If there are real issues I can work out something with those.

[mogandave]

Again, I think it depends on your target customers. If it’s mostly tourists that want to pay with credit cards, I think you’d be better off raising your prices to cover the CC fee.

Mostly local “cash” customers, better to keep your prices low and charging a fee.

[mogandave]

Really?

[mogandave]

Yikes!

 

[mogandave]

Doh!!!

[sirineou]

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Again, I think it depends on your target customers. If it’s mostly tourists that want to pay with credit cards, I think you’d be better off raising your prices to cover the CC fee.

Mostly local “cash” customers, better to keep your prices low and charging a fee.

I agree but raising your price in a mostly credit card business will eliminate the cash tourist customer , even if said cash customer is 10% 0r even 5% such drop in business is not desirable. why not simply charge the 1-2% surcharge for credit card transactions as the title suggests . Many businesses do it in the US,

IMO reonable. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by sirineou

[mogandave]

I agree but raising your price in a mostly credit card business will eliminate the cash tourist customer , even if said cash customer is 10% 0r even 5% such drop in business is not desirable. why not simply charge the 1-2% surcharge for credit card transactions as the title suggests . Many businesses do it in the US,
IMO reonable. 

I think it’s 3% for visa & mc and 4% for Amex.

If most of you trade is with credit cards, I believe you’d lose more customers with a surcharge than by raising your prices 4%.

Not many companies in the US add a surcharge, and virtually no retailers do because the credit cards don’t allow it.

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I think it’s 3% for visa & mc and 4% for Amex.

If most of you trade is with credit cards, I believe you’d lose more customers with a surcharge than by raising your prices 4%.

Not many companies in the US add a surcharge, and virtually no retailers do because the credit cards don’t allow it.

 

 Almost every gas station in the US charges more for credit than Gas. This is Usually the case with low margin business or if the transaction is small, Most businesses have a signe "No Credit Card for less than (a certain amount) "

many institutions charge a "convenience fee' for payment with a credit card. Just paid the home insurance in my FL home , I was charger $25 for pay with a debit card . (I know you said retail) 

Furthermore the percentage depend on the Credit card clearance company the vendor does business with, Two vendors might be paying a different  percentage based who they do business with, and their standing in the community. 

I had several retail businesses ,  never accepted AMEX or Discover, the rewards  they promise to their customers is for the most part paid by the vendor in the form of higher %. That's why you don't see too many stores in Thailand accepting AMEX,

But I don't disagree with you. It is all about the bottom line, one makes the best decision with that in mind.

[Ks45672]

The merchant has to eat the fees according to visa and mastercard... 

 

But it doesn't seem to work that way in Thailand

 

Mbk sellers will  ask for extra 3% or direct you to the atm 

[mogandave]

 Almost every gas station in the US charges more for credit than Gas. This is Usually the case with low margin business or if the transaction is small, Most businesses have a signe "No Credit Card for less than (a certain amount) "
many institutions charge a "convenience fee' for payment with a credit card. Just paid the home insurance in my FL home , I was charger $25 for pay with a debit card . (I know you said retail) 
Furthermore the percentage depend on the Credit card clearance company the vendor does business with, Two vendors might be paying a different  percentage based who they do business with, and their standing in the community. 
I had several retail businesses ,  never accepted AMEX or Discover, the rewards  they promise to their customers is for the most part paid by the vendor in the form of higher %. That's why you don't see too many stores in Thailand accepting AMEX,
But I don't disagree with you. It is all about the bottom line, one makes the best decision with that in mind.

Try to go in a gas station minimart and see if you can buy a carton of cigarettes and get a cash discount.

How many times a month does one typically use a credit card in the US, and how many times a month does one buy gas? Five times out of fifty?

The stations (most always) have a sign out front with both prices so you know before you pull in, and generally it’s a bigger pain in the a— to pay cash than to use credit to pump gas.

[talahtnut]

We are being conned into a cashless society, what

a wheeze for the banks.

There is an opportunity to fight back with crypto,

and a little old fashioned bartering, using a lump

of gold as your reserve currency.

My problem is getting that lump.

 

 

[mogandave]

We are being conned into a cashless society, what
a wheeze for the banks.
There is an opportunity to fight back with crypto,
and a little old fashioned bartering, using a lump
of gold as your reserve currency.
My problem is getting that lump.
 
 

I like 90% cashless. Pay for most everything with a card, have my salary direct deposit, pay all my bills with a bank app.

Have a nice downloadable record of every transaction proving my bills have been paid and a list of most everything I buy & when I bought it.

I don’t care if my wife, the stores, the banks or the government know what I spend or don’t spend my money on.

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Try to go in a gas station minimart and see if you can buy a carton of cigarettes and get a cash discount.

How many times a month does one typically use a credit card in the US, and how many times a month does one buy gas? Five times out of fifty?

The stations (most always) have a sign out front with both prices so you know before you pull in, and generally it’s a bigger pain in the a— to pay cash than to use credit to pump gas.

 

 In the US I use cash, only for small transactions ($5 or less) anything else I use a debit card , and I always use the credit card option on the debit card so I don't have to use the pin number , this offers me some protections and keeps my pin out of the public domain where it might be pilfered and used fraudulently. In Thailand I mostly use cash, except for large purchases where we use my wife's card (i don't have a thai credit card and don't like using my US card because of fees) 

[mogandave]

 In the US I use cash, only for small transactions ($5 or less) anything else I use a debit card , and I always use the credit card option on the debit card so I don't have to use the pin number , this offers me some protections and keeps my pin out of the public domain where it might be pilfered and used fraudulently. In Thailand I mostly use cash, except for large purchases where we use my wife's card (i don't have a thai credit card and don't like using my US card because of fees) 

 

Dude, get you a no-fees card. I use credit for almost everything but small stuff as well.

 

When I pay medical bills with my US credit card, and submit the bills to my insurance company in Baht, when the insurance company reimburses me in dollars, I get 3-4% more than I pay...

 

How great is that?

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Dude, get you a no-fees card. I use credit for almost everything but small stuff as well.

 

When I pay medical bills with my US credit card, and submit the bills to my insurance company in Baht, when the insurance company reimburses me in dollars, I get 3-4% more than I pay...

 

How great is that?

 I still work , for a large US high rise construction company , which means that I travel alot to and from projects I am associated with ,(mostly in the north east) .

  So these things are not an issue for me  yet. 

I will be ready to retire this spring (we have a nice place in Khon Kaen) but will not do so until the project I am associated with is completed ( ET fall of 2019) . and maybe not even then as it was offered to me that if I retire , I could start collecting my union pension , but start an LLC and comeback as a consultant.

An offer difficult to refuse because of the money, but will need to consider carefully as I will be 62 by then and running out of life time. ( if I live to be 85 , age my dad died, only have 23 years to do the things I want to do , like music. read, study, travel for leisure)

Anyway we will see. 

   

I mostly use my debit card  (don't like the credit card concept) but I have a credit card from my bank that I occasionally use to maintain my credit rating)

  and an AMEX my company provides me with , for expense purposes. which I use most of the time as I don't have to pay the bill, but not in Thailand because it would be difficult to justify in my expense report.

What card from the US would you recommend for use in Thailand?