Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[baboon]

4 hours ago, talahtnut said:

When people listen to those in power who

own the media, there will be no real brexit.

Better to listen to the French, Italians, Greeks

etc. In December, Salvini mocked the French

president as a “lab mouse elected to keep the

elitist political system in place.”

Remainers need not worry about a real  brexit,

it's not going to happen, so we will not all die

instantly, or fall of the big cliff.. but be prepared

to buy a yellow vest later. These elitists are not

interested in democracy or the public, only your

money.

 

I still honestly believe that a hard or soft Brexit is at best a coin toss. However I fear that Hard will win in the end. We'll see...

[JTXR]

Hard... soft...  EU deal.... no deal.... parliament vote... back to the voters.... one-part vote?... two-part?.... three part?..........

 

Whatever the outcome, the rest of the world's Schadenfreude meters are red-lining.

 

 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

I still honestly believe that a hard or soft Brexit is at best a coin toss. However I fear that Hard will win in the end. We'll see...

There is no such thing as a hard or soft Brexit. This is a term made up by those who do not agree with the majority verdict of the electorate, who Democratically voted to exit this so called union,rather than remain shackled to Brussels.

 What is now required is for the decision of the vote to be implemented.Then in a few years time, if there is a demand from a section of the population, for a rethink or even another referendum, those people should then form a pressure group/ party, similar to UKIP, and try and persuade enough people to demand that we re-enter the E.u. if it still exist.

 Why are those people who are so opposed to our leaving the E.u, reluctant to take this route, Are they afraid that no disaster will befall the U.K when we leave, and that in fact the U.K will benefit from being it’s own master.

[baboon]

21 minutes ago, nontabury said:

There is no such thing as a hard or soft Brexit.

Yes there is. The People were not offered varying options on the ballot paper and as such, could project their own interpretations on what 'Leave' meant. Reposting the memes of others in lieu of being unable to argue for yourself alters that not a jot.

 

I wish to remain, but you know that. But I will not repost some picture of a dog taking a sh!t or whatever else, along with a convenient soundbite to confirm my view. That I can express for myself.

Edited January 8, 2019 by baboon

[Guest]

Britons stock up for Brexit Chaos 

 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

There is no such thing as a hard or soft Brexit. This is a term made up by those who do not agree with the majority verdict of the electorate, who Democratically voted to exit this so called union,rather than remain shackled to Brussels.

 What is now required is for the decision of the vote to be implemented.Then in a few years time, if there is a demand from a section of the population, for a rethink or even another referendum, those people should then form a pressure group/ party, similar to UKIP, and try and persuade enough people to demand that we re-enter the E.u. if it still exist.

 Why are those people who are so opposed to our leaving the E.u, reluctant to take this route, Are they afraid that no disaster will befall the U.K when we leave, and that in fact the U.K will benefit from being it’s own master.

If there is no such thing as hard or soft Brexit, then why were the leading Brexit campaigners predicting rosy results from negotiations with the EU? Why were they even positing that there would be negotiations? If Brexit means what you claim it does, then why have negotiations at all? And why accuse the EU of being spiteful or unfair if Brexit meant what you now claim it does?

[talahtnut]

16 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Britons stock up for Brexit Chaos 

 

Plenty of people IN the EU and Paris could use that

pile of grub right now.

 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

If there is no such thing as hard or soft Brexit, then why were the leading Brexit campaigners predicting rosy results from negotiations with the EU? Why were they even positing that there would be negotiations? If Brexit means what you claim it does, then why have negotiations at all? And why accuse the EU of being spiteful or unfair if Brexit meant what you now claim it does?

But, that’s the point. There has been no true negotiations with the E.u by the U.K.government, which is led by a remainer.

 

 A while back you mentioned that the E.u is Democratic, and it’s the so called M.E.P who call the shots. Are you 100% sure.

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

But, that’s the point. There has been no true negotiations with the E.u by the U.K.government, which is led by a remainer.

You are contradicting yourself. First you claim there is no such thing as a soft vs. a hard Brexit. Then you complain there hasn’t been true negotiations. But what would any UK government need to negotiate if there is only to leave, which only requires to trigger A50 and no negotiations? 

 

Truth is, people were promised by your leaders they would get all the benefits of staying in the EU for a fraction of the cost and obligations. They were even more told all that would be super easy; the easiest deal in history. So, they were told there would be negotiations and a deal; easy negotiations and an awesome deal. No hard Brexit. 

 

It’s simply not true that people voted to just leave.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, nontabury said:

 Come 2016, did we know everything, off course not. However thanks to the benifits of social media, we were far better informed. And that led to the British people Democratically voting to leave this so called union.

 

Maybe you can show us the white paper or agreement that provided the information, or just the hearsay and misconceptions rampant on social media.

Referring to one of the other 2 national referendums held nearly 40 years ago hardly supports any point of view.

You can argue the toss over democracy all day long but at the end of the day in a parliamentary democracy people do not make decisions. That is the responsibility of parliament and in doing so would need to consider all relevant factors, including any doubts over the legitimacy of the referendum result.

When it comes to unions, there is no more "so called union" than the UK.

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

But, that’s the point. There has been no true negotiations with the E.u by the U.K.government, which is led by a remainer.

 

What leavers refuse to accept is that negotiations were to be held in 2 parts, withdrawal agreement and 'everything else'.

Only the withdrawal agreement is required under Art 50 and from the start that was laid down as financial settlement, citizens rights and Irish border. That must be concluded before 'anything else' can proceed.

 

From day one TM has tried to circumvent, nothing new there, the EU regulations and having failed is now trying to blame the EU for that failing. Time to wake up to reality.

[talahtnut]

On 1/8/2019 at 9:51 AM, sandyf said:

I am not in favour of national referendums in the first place, in the UK they are nothing more than a government sponsored opinion poll, only ever been 3 so all this talk about again and again is garbage. Parliament must make the decision and no politician can preempt what parliament will decide so DC was out of order in saying what he did.

A referendum got us into this mess and without a strong consensus in parliament another may be the only way out. You have to bear in mind that if the government lose the vote parliament take control so it will no longer be up to the government what happens next.

What has been said today may well make the vote even more contentious.

 

A leading human rights lawyer has warned a no-deal Brexit would be be illegal because of the “real and immediate risk to life”. 

Jonathan Cooper, who was awarded an OBE for his work in 2007, says the government would be knowingly putting the British public in danger if the UK crashes out of the EU without an agreement.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-illegal-risk-life-human-rights-lawyer-jonathan-cooper-a8715841.html

Sandy, there is doubt that you are well informed, but

you are relying on an establishment neo-liberal globalist

propaganda ass wipe media.

If you were a barrister, you'd be my defence choice,

I believe you could argue that the world is flat and

win.

 

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

What leavers refuse to accept is that negotiations were to be held in 2 parts, withdrawal agreement and 'everything else'.

Only the withdrawal agreement is required under Art 50 and from the start that was laid down as financial settlement, citizens rights and Irish border. That must be concluded before 'anything else' can proceed.

 

From day one TM has tried to circumvent, nothing new there, the EU regulations and having failed is now trying to blame the EU for that failing. Time to wake up to reality.

agree, time to wake up and admit a failed project

 

but who should wake up? UK parliament, the mess is largely the fault of the parliament'

 

[Guest]

Brexit talks in the UK are getting rather nasty.

 

 

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Sandy, there is doubt that you are well informed, but

you are relying on an establishment neo-liberal globalist

propaganda ass wipe media.

If you were a barrister, you'd be my defence choice,

I believe you could argue that the world is flat and

win.

 

Phrases like 

"establishment neo-liberal globalist

propaganda ass wipe media."

should be called bot-speak.

[anon676545345]

On 1/8/2019 at 5:59 AM, rixalex said:

It makes me feel glad to not be living in Britain as i imagine this is the sort of thing that people are experiencing face to face with neighbours, friends and even family.

 

 

This couldn't be further from the truth face to face remainers aren't as rude or arrogant as they are online, I've had some interesting discussions with friends and colleagues in the UK they've listened to my reasons for voting leave and though we may not have agreed they've been respectful of my opinion and I of theirs. 

[anon676545345]

3 hours ago, oilinki said:

Brexit talks in the UK are getting rather nasty.

 

 

 

Remainers have been using these tactics on the likes of Farage for the last 2 years and the media has remained silent, no ones started condemning these tactics till scum bag remain politicians are being harangued.

[dunroaming]

16 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Remainers have been using these tactics on the likes of Farage for the last 2 years and the media has remained silent, no ones started condemning these tactics till scum bag remain politicians are being harangued.

 

As expected these right wing racist morons have been condemned today by as many Brexit supporting MPs as remainers.  They are scum and only harm the Brexiteers often valid arguments.

[talahtnut]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Phrases like 

"establishment neo-liberal globalist

propaganda ass wipe media."

should be called bot-speak.

Bot-speak, that's a fair comment.

Let me rephrase:  The UK news media is treating people

like mushrooms. kept in the dark and fed on sh1t.

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Bot-speak, that's a fair comment.

Let me rephrase:  The UK news media is treating people

like mushrooms. kept in the dark and fed on sh1t.

 

mushroom omelette with some cheese and ham is quite ok then

 

goes down well with a glass of red wine or a Belhaven

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, talahtnut said:

but you are relying on an establishment neo-liberal globalist

propaganda ass wipe media.

 

Total misconception. I do not rely on much and certainly not on anything in the media.

I merely point out what is being said and feel free to disagree, but whatever gets said in the media is believed by someone somewhere, it is what got us into this mess in the first place.

The fact that someone has voiced an opinion that 'no deal' may be illegal may very well make some dithering MP's feel it is safer to cover their xxse and vote for the deal, subversive manipulation.

The referendum is subject to criminal investigations into how it was conducted but many have been led to believe it was democratic, as always it is each to their own even if it means a blind eye.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

agree, time to wake up and admit a failed project

 

but who should wake up? UK parliament, the mess is largely the fault of the parliament'

 

Quite, in a parliamentary democracy, parliament should have a voice but historically the vocal chords have been cut by the party whips. One positive that may come out of brexit is a stronger parliament.

[talahtnut]

51 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite, in a parliamentary democracy, parliament should have a voice but historically the vocal chords have been cut by the party whips. One positive that may come out of brexit is a stronger parliament.

You're on track there Sandy, but I would go further

and reform parliament and government.

Ending poverty doesn’t seem to be a top priority

for British MPs, as only 14 of them showed up to

attend a parliamentary debate on the UN report

urging the government to address the burning problem.

If the debate was about their pay rise, the place

would be packed solid.

We have a corporatist government, not a democracy.

[melvinmelvin]

56 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite, in a parliamentary democracy, parliament should have a voice but historically the vocal chords have been cut by the party whips. One positive that may come out of brexit is a stronger parliament.

seems, according to what I read in msms, that parliament this week, at last, is stepping out if its slumber

and demands having a hand in the Brexit process.

 

alas, very late, should have done that before A50 was triggered

 

yes-yes, I know about roles pm/parliament etc,

but Brexit is no ordinary everyday matter

its a once in a lifetime vital and complex issue

 

leaving the entire Brexit portfolio to be sorted by an inexperienced PM (picked by a Tory backroom meeting)

and inexperienced multilateral negotiator, without any checks and balances,

smells of lack of responsibility

 

shame on parliament,

the mess is not really May's fault, she just isn't better or isn't good enough,

parliament even got some clear and frightening signals (showing lack of understanding and lack of cooperative will)

from PM months before A50 was triggered, without wakening up

 

[sandyf]

Project Reality.

 

Jaguar Land Rover, Ford and Honda delivered a triple dose of bad news for the UK car industry on Thursday.

JLR will cut 4,500 jobs, predominantly in the UK, while Ford is to cut thousandsof jobs across Europe. Honda announced it will pause production at its Swindon plant in April in anticipation of border disruption after Brexit on 29 March.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/jaguar-land-rover-job-cuts-ford-honda-brexit-shutdown-uk-car-industry-a8721986.html

 

The intervention came as the Japanese prime minister, speaking alongside Ms May warned: “The world is watching the UK as it exits the European Union.”

Shinzo Abe said a no-deal Brexit must be avoided if Japan is to “invest more into your country and to enjoy further economic growth with the UK”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bercow-vote-grieve-amendment-may-explanation-commons-a8721926.html

 

Ironically, the EU-Japan partnership agreement has at last been finalised, a bargain between two of the world’s largest economic blocs. The UK cannot hope to secure as advantageous a deal in the future, despite the warm affection the Japanese may have for the British.

There has never been a barrier to the UK exporting more to Japan as a result of our membership of the EU. Today, under the new EU-Japan deal, cemented just as the British are botching their exit from the EU, tariffs and barriers have never been lower.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/shinzo-abe-japan-eu-uk-brexit-theresa-may-trade-investment-whaling-a8721246.html

[evadgib]

On 1/9/2019 at 4:21 PM, Chartist said:

 

Remainers have been using these tactics on the likes of Farage for the last 2 years and the media has remained silent, no ones started condemning these tactics till scum bag remain politicians are being harangued.

Agreed. Have you seen this?

 

[anon676545345]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Project Reality.

 

Jaguar Land Rover, Ford and Honda delivered a triple dose of bad news for the UK car industry on Thursday.

JLR will cut 4,500 jobs, predominantly in the UK, while Ford is to cut thousandsof jobs across Europe. Honda announced it will pause production at its Swindon plant in April in anticipation of border disruption after Brexit on 29 March.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/jaguar-land-rover-job-cuts-ford-honda-brexit-shutdown-uk-car-industry-a8721986.html

 

The intervention came as the Japanese prime minister, speaking alongside Ms May warned: “The world is watching the UK as it exits the European Union.”

Shinzo Abe said a no-deal Brexit must be avoided if Japan is to “invest more into your country and to enjoy further economic growth with the UK”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bercow-vote-grieve-amendment-may-explanation-commons-a8721926.html

 

Ironically, the EU-Japan partnership agreement has at last been finalised, a bargain between two of the world’s largest economic blocs. The UK cannot hope to secure as advantageous a deal in the future, despite the warm affection the Japanese may have for the British.

There has never been a barrier to the UK exporting more to Japan as a result of our membership of the EU. Today, under the new EU-Japan deal, cemented just as the British are botching their exit from the EU, tariffs and barriers have never been lower.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/shinzo-abe-japan-eu-uk-brexit-theresa-may-trade-investment-whaling-a8721246.html

 

Yea we should all take advice from Shinzo Abe look how well Abenomics worked for Japan, a massive QE program designed to raise inflation and increase growth. Which was a spectacular failure, Japan has the largest gross debt to GDP ratio in the world and just posted the biggest decrease in productivity for 4 years. It's a slow moving train wreck, one which Abe nor anyone else seems to have the answers to. They should get on great with the Eurozone another slow moving train wreck, when the wheels inevitably come off one or the other we can have the global recession remainers have been praying for, sure they'll attempt to blame Brexit but het you can't teach stupid.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Yea we should all take advice from Shinzo Abe look how well Abenomics worked for Japan, a massive QE program designed to raise inflation and increase growth. Which was a spectacular failure, Japan has the largest gross debt to GDP ratio in the world and just posted the biggest decrease in productivity for 4 years. It's a slow moving train wreck, one which Abe nor anyone else seems to have the answers to. They should get on great with the Eurozone another slow moving train wreck, when the wheels inevitably come off one or the other we can have the global recession remainers have been praying for, sure they'll attempt to blame Brexit but het you can't teach stupid.

So basically UK doesn't need to trade with EU and UK doesn't need trade with Japan?

 

Which countries UK does need to trade with?

[melvinmelvin]

27 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Agreed. Have you seen this?

 

 

I take it that this is a joke/fake news/charade or similar

and not the real thing?

 

[anon676545345]

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Agreed. Have you seen this?

 

 

That's the thing with these zealots they're ideologically driven, and the neoliberal ideology can't handle criticism. If you look at its beginnings with books such as Hayek's 1944 'The Road to Serfdom' it follows a now all to familiar script, stating that anything it doesn't agree with such as financial regulations and collective bargaining leads to totalitarian control. To idiots like Soubry anything she disagrees with is 'offensive' and should be silenced, she's a total hypocrite.