Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, aright said:

Are you having early drinks?  I wasn't addressing you, conscience maybe, but your perceived answers are sometimes obfuscation or a response to a question that you wished had been or wasn't asked. To give you one example you claimed that in my posts I claimed that EU law has primacy in every single area. My response was show me "Sentence and/or paragraph otherwise its wishful thinking and has no basis in fact." Had you shown me the evidence I would have shut up but all I got was a broad, no evidence, lazy, tepid reply. The question is still open but I expect the same. I am well able to deal with answers I don't like or disagree with but for some people point scoring is more important than the debate.

As for the other question I don't like the backstop and for me it's a show-stopper. From day 1 my choice was to never get anywhere close to the table but to wait for the EU to approach us with a deal which I would have judged on the basis of merit. In the event that didn't transpire my preferred choice was to walk away with no deal. In light of an almost 3 year history imo I was most probably right. 

Let's leave it there shall we.

He is in my ignore list so what ever I don't care. Ultimate wind up merchant

[wilcopops]

Yet another defeat  for the eel-like Ms May.

Over 17 million were persuaded to vote for Brexit.....but each one voted for a different one.

I think todays vote shows that Brexit cant be done according to any semblance of people's will........

 

It doesn't matter how often you vote, you cant vote the world flat.

 

 

 

[wilcopops]

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

And don't part quote a quote.  

If you think about that, its an oxymoron....as I made the quote.

[Laughing Gravy]

56 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

Over 17 million were persuaded to vote for Brexit.....but each one voted for a different one.

Please show the evidence for this.

Or is it just your opinion.

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, aright said:

Are you having early drinks?  I wasn't addressing you, conscience maybe, but your perceived answers are sometimes obfuscation or a response to a question that you wished had been or wasn't asked. To give you one example you claimed that in my posts I claimed that EU law has primacy in every single area. My response was show me "Sentence and/or paragraph otherwise its wishful thinking and has no basis in fact." Had you shown me the evidence I would have shut up but all I got was a broad, no evidence, lazy, tepid reply. The question is still open but I expect the same. I am well able to deal with answers I don't like or disagree with but for some people point scoring is more important than the debate.

As for the other question I don't like the backstop and for me it's a show-stopper. From day 1 my choice was to never get anywhere close to the table but to wait for the EU to approach us with a deal which I would have judged on the basis of merit. In the event that didn't transpire my preferred choice was to walk away with no deal. In light of an almost 3 year history imo I was most probably right. 

Let's leave it there shall we.

Your views on Brexit are at odds with reality and your ability to put forward a coherent argument may be zero, but I truly admire your mastery of Malapropism and general misuse of English.

"your perceived answers are sometimes obfuscation or a response to a question that you wished had been or wasn't asked"

 

It does however reinforce the stereotypical perception (correct usage) that Brexiteers are less intellectually equipped than Remainers to understand the problems associated with the concept of Brexit.

e.g. this banal used of a non sequitur / false premise ...

"Sentence and/or paragraph otherwise its wishful thinking and has no basis in fact."

Edited March 13, 2019 by wilcopops

[samran]

11 hours ago, aright said:

A well thought out constructive reply.

I can type more slowly next time if that helps you get the point?

 

7 hours ago, aright said:

 From day 1 my choice was to never get anywhere close to the table but to wait for the EU to approach us with a deal which I would have judged on the basis of merit. In the event that didn't transpire my preferred choice was to walk away with no deal.

Yeah, good luck with that. You'll still be waiting a while if you expect the EU to make the first move.

 

No doubt based on the 'they need us more than we need them' myth which did the rounds. They don't 'need' you and any of the trade benefits they do derive from Little Britain they can make up elsewhere with some changes to their trade policy if they need it.

 

Besides, negotiation tactics 101 will be to wait you guys out. When you do come back, of course they won't present it as cap in hand to save face, but it will be in all but name when you slink back to them to grovel for some sort of 3rd rate trade deal.

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by samran

[talahtnut]

One cannot deal with the EU ideology of slavery, its

either in or out. The UK must never ever lecture any

country on the planet about democracy again, it has

lost all credibility.

What the UK needs is the entire body politic to be

put to the sword. 

[sandyf]

On 3/11/2019 at 12:32 PM, Krataiboy said:

When David Cameron pledged that the result of the  "once in a generation" referendum would be binding on Parliament, he was perfectly justified in doing so - and not a single Remainer voices rang out to accuse him of being unconstitutional.

That is not entirely true, DC was warned prior to the referendum act that leaving the EU would be extremely problematic in respect of the Belfast agreement, but like all politicians, political expediency takes priority.

When the UK population went to the polls, discontent was a prime motivator and the people of Ireland weren't given a second thought. After nearly 3 years, many leavers are still not interested in the problem and just want to blame the EU.

TM appears to have a bottomless pit for brexit and Phillip Hammond more money than he knows what to do with, in the light of that and other current information isn't it time the people got a chance to decide who the bad guys really are.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

He is in my ignore list so what ever I don't care. Ultimate wind up merchant

He has been on my ignore list for quite a while now.

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is not entirely true, DC was warned prior to the referendum act that leaving the EU would be extremely problematic in respect of the Belfast agreement, but like all politicians, political expediency takes priority.

When the UK population went to the polls, discontent was a prime motivator and the people of Ireland weren't given a second thought. After nearly 3 years, many leavers are still not interested in the problem and just want to blame the EU.

TM appears to have a bottomless pit for brexit and Phillip Hammond more money than he knows what to do with, in the light of that and other current information isn't it time the people got a chance to decide who the bad guys really are.

I agree that disenchantment with our political system and politicians were in the minds of Leave voters when they went to the polls. However, I suspect the same can be said of millions who voted Remain.

 

Subsequent events have only served to heighten dissatisfaction levels, with

May pretending to be an ardent Brexiteer while attempting to push through a deal which would make us worse off than we are now and Corbyn playing political opportunist.

 

If anything good is eventually to come from nearly three years of posturing and prevarication aimed at thwarting the "will of the majority", let it be a much-needed transformation of the political, if not economic, landscape - hopefully for ever.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Krataiboy

[Krataiboy]

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Really?

 

I have endeavoured to answer every question put to me. (That you don't like the answer doesn't mean I haven't provided one!)

 

Yet you Brexiteers regularly ignore my questions to you.

 

I recently asked a question of both @nauseus in this topic and @Laughing Gravy in another. Nauseus gave a feeble excuse for not answering; Laughing Gravy simply ignored it. (Though @Krataiboy made an attempt at answering it by quoting the headline of an article behind a paywall; shame he couldn't give his own opinion, though.)

 

So, I'll ask you that question and see if you answer: what specifics in May's deal do you disagree with, and with what would you replace them?

@Krataiboy made an attempt at answering it by quoting the headline of an article behind a paywall; shame he couldn't give his own opinion, though.

 

I assumed you wanted facts, not opinions. So if you're not a Telegraph subscriber (surprise, surprise!) just hit the Google search button like the rest of us.

[evadgib]

It's like trying to engage in meaningful debate with Owen Jones ????

Edited March 13, 2019 by evadgib

[aright]

6 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Your views on Brexit are at odds with reality and your ability to put forward a coherent argument may be zero, but I truly admire your mastery of Malapropism and general misuse of English.

"your perceived answers are sometimes obfuscation or a response to a question that you wished had been or wasn't asked"

 

It does however reinforce the stereotypical perception (correct usage) that Brexiteers are less intellectually equipped than Remainers to understand the problems associated with the concept of Brexit.

e.g. this banal used of a non sequitur / false premise ...

"Sentence and/or paragraph otherwise its wishful thinking and has no basis in fact."

Why do self agrandising, self regarding intellectual big beasts like yourself  bother interacting with the less intellectually equipped. Why don't you only get involved with intellectual equals....you know the ones I mean, the people who hold the same opinion as yourself.  You obviously can't learn anything from mental inferiors so I assume it's to emphasise your self importance and to practice your insulting skills? 

[aright]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

He is in my ignore list so what ever I don't care. Ultimate wind up merchant

 

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

He has been on my ignore list for quite a while now.

It's certainly a consideration. Being spoken down to and regarded as mentally lacking, as a form of debate, gets boring after a while.

[Krataiboy]

7 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Your views on Brexit are at odds with reality and your ability to put forward a coherent argument may be zero, but I truly admire your mastery of Malapropism and general misuse of English.

"your perceived answers are sometimes obfuscation or a response to a question that you wished had been or wasn't asked"

 

It does however reinforce the stereotypical perception (correct usage) that Brexiteers are less intellectually equipped than Remainers to understand the problems associated with the concept of Brexit.

e.g. this banal used of a non sequitur / false premise ...

"Sentence and/or paragraph otherwise its wishful thinking and has no basis in fact."

What a nasty little exercise in condescension. Sloppily written, too.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Krataiboy

[dunroaming]

Meanwhile back in London people are waking up to May's (as expected) defeated deal. Not quite as big as last time thanks to many of the rebels changing horses and voting for it. Even David Davis! I bet JRM was spitting blood over that.

 

Anyway today there will be a vote on leaving with No-Deal which is expected to effectively take it off of the table.  Then tomorrow a vote on asking for an extension.  However the EU have said (quite rightly) that they need to know what the extension is for.  Yes we all need to know what it's for.  Will it be to re-jig and soften the deal?  Will it be to go for the Norwegian style deal (half in half out) or will it be to take on board Labours proposals including a customs union.  OR will it be to go back to the people for the so called "Peoples Vote".

 

Or will it be something really meaningful like calling a general election (God help us!).  Of course May could go back to Brussels yet again and try for a third time but only the pie in the sky brigade think that holds water.

[evadgib]

<deleted post>

 

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by evadgib

[7by7]

13 hours ago, aright said:

Are you having early drinks?  I wasn't addressing you,

I thought this was a forum where anyone was entitled to have their say.

 

When did you become the boss who decides who can post what?

 

As for the middle of your post; I did answer your questions; that you didn't like the answers is your problem, not mine.

 

13 hours ago, aright said:

As for the other question I don't like the backstop and for me it's a show-stopper.

So what about it don't you like?

 

It is supposed to be a temporay measure in place to keep the border open as per the terms of the Good Friday agreement until technological systems can be found to check on goods moving between NI and the RoI. Is your dislike based upon the fear of some that there is nothing as permanent as a temporary measure? If not, what is your reason?

 

13 hours ago, aright said:

From day 1 my choice was to never get anywhere close to the table but to wait for the EU to approach us with a deal which I would have judged on the basis of merit.

Ah, the arrogant arm of Brexit. "We have decided to leave your club, so you have to come to us and give us all the advantages of membership with none of the responsibilities!"

 

The EU had no reason, certainly no obligation, to approach us with anything. We chose to leave.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

He is in my ignore list so what ever I don't care. Ultimate wind up merchant

Translation: "I don't like what he says, I can't answer his awkward questions, so I'll just ignore him."

 

Isn't this supposed to be a forum for adult debate?

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

@Krataiboy made an attempt at answering it by quoting the headline of an article behind a paywall; shame he couldn't give his own opinion, though.

 

I assumed you wanted facts, not opinions. So if you're not a Telegraph subscriber (surprise, surprise!) just hit the Google search button like the rest of us.

 

I never asked you for the facts; I know facts. What I asked for is your opinions!

 

As is obvious in the wording of the question: "What specifics in May's deal do you disagree with, and with what would you replace them?"

 

A short while back I accused @rixalex of condescension when, in arguing against another referendum on May's deal, he claimed it was too complex for the average voter to understand.

 

Go on, put your brain in gear, give the matter some serious thought and come up with an opinion of your own. Unless rixalex was right and the whole thing is to complex for you to understand!

[CG1 Blue]

17 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Meanwhile back in London people are waking up to May's (as expected) defeated deal. Not quite as big as last time thanks to many of the rebels changing horses and voting for it. Even David Davis! I bet JRM was spitting blood over that.

 

Anyway today there will be a vote on leaving with No-Deal which is expected to effectively take it off of the table.  Then tomorrow a vote on asking for an extension.  However the EU have said (quite rightly) that they need to know what the extension is for.  Yes we all need to know what it's for.  Will it be to re-jig and soften the deal?  Will it be to go for the Norwegian style deal (half in half out) or will it be to take on board Labours proposals including a customs union.  OR will it be to go back to the people for the so called "Peoples Vote".

 

Or will it be something really meaningful like calling a general election (God help us!).  Of course May could go back to Brussels yet again and try for a third time but only the pie in the sky brigade think that holds water.

Yep, it's all in limbo - again. 

 

Notice how petrified Corbyn looks when he talks about this now.  He angrily shouts for a general election, which baffles most onlookers because it's not the logical next step. But it's because he is desperate to avoid a 2nd referendum.  If there was a 2nd referendum he'd have to show his cards and reveal his anti-EU views. So he diverts attention from the 2nd ref by calling for a GE all the time. 

 

He also seems to think if he becomes PM he can get his version of a deal passed.  But frankly I don't understand his deal. A customs union and alignment with the SM. Why is that more palatable than May's deal? 

 

I think most people are just sick of all the hidden agendas getting in the way of progress. 

 

[evadgib]

12 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Translation: "I don't like what he says, I can't answer his awkward questions, so I'll just ignore him."

Isn't this supposed to be a forum for adult debate?

Your own iggy list is rendered useless by your inability not to peek (bite) though innit ????

[beautifulthailand99]

7 hours ago, talahtnut said:

One cannot deal with the EU ideology of slavery, its

either in or out. The UK must never ever lecture any

country on the planet about democracy again, it has

lost all credibility.

What the UK needs is the entire body politic to be

put to the sword. 

 

There is no 'never ever' about anything - but yes we have lost credibility allowing the referendum to become a lightning rod to the dispossessed and disaffected and a symbol of all their ills. When it was globalization and the banking crash and subsequent QE that impoverished whole swathes of previously quite well off nations and their people.  But you knew all that didn't you? 

 

BTW if you want to know about supposed British democracy and post-imperial perfidy .........

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Archipelago_sovereignty_dispute

[Krataiboy]

26 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I never asked you for the facts; I know facts. What I asked for is your opinions!

 

As is obvious in the wording of the question: "What specifics in May's deal do you disagree with, and with what would you replace them?"

 

A short while back I accused @rixalex of condescension when, in arguing against another referendum on May's deal, he claimed it was too complex for the average voter to understand.

 

Go on, put your brain in gear, give the matter some serious thought and come up with an opinion of your own. Unless rixalex was right and the whole thing is to complex for you to understand!

Do try to keep up. My opinions on Brexit and May's deal will be familiar by now to any Forum member interested in views other than their own (which probably explains why you are unaware of them).  I have no intention of further humouring a transparent wind-up merchant.

[talahtnut]

31 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

There is no 'never ever' about anything - but yes we have lost credibility allowing the referendum to become a lightning rod to the dispossessed and disaffected and a symbol of all their ills. When it was globalization and the banking crash and subsequent QE that impoverished whole swathes of previously quite well off nations and their people.  But you knew all that didn't you? 

 

BTW if you want to know about supposed British democracy and post-imperial perfidy .........

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Archipelago_sovereignty_dispute

Yes, we well aware of the UK treachery.

The Great British Empire was built on piracy,

now, they just lie, instill fear, and steal off the poor.

Satan, himself, would be put to shame by the antics of the UK.

 

[aright]

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Translation: "I don't like what he says, I can't answer his awkward questions, so I'll just ignore him."

 

Isn't this supposed to be a forum for adult debate?

Yes. When are you going to grow up?

I will no longer participate in your foolishness.

In the not too distant future I can see you talking to yourself on this forum.

Dale Carnegie wrote a book  "How to Win Friends and Influence People". It might help you.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Yep, it's all in limbo - again. 

 

Notice how petrified Corbyn looks when he talks about this now.  He angrily shouts for a general election, which baffles most onlookers because it's not the logical next step. But it's because he is desperate to avoid a 2nd referendum.  If there was a 2nd referendum he'd have to show his cards and reveal his anti-EU views. So he diverts attention from the 2nd ref by calling for a GE all the time. 

 

He also seems to think if he becomes PM he can get his version of a deal passed.  But frankly I don't understand his deal. A customs union and alignment with the SM. Why is that more palatable than May's deal? 

 

I think most people are just sick of all the hidden agendas getting in the way of progress. 

 

Of course no matter how high the vote today to take No-Deal off of the table, it will still remain the default position on 29th March unless a new course is taken.

 

I think Corbyn has many problems at the moment, not least a growing movement against him in his own party.  Who knows, maybe May will outlast him!

[evadgib]

 

[wilcopops]

5 hours ago, aright said:

Why do self agrandising, self regarding intellectual big beasts like yourself  bother interacting with the less intellectually equipped. Why don't you only get involved with intellectual equals....you know the ones I mean, the people who hold the same opinion as yourself.  You obviously can't learn anything from mental inferiors so I assume it's to emphasise your self importance and to practice your insulting skills? 

 I think Jefferson provided the answer when he said....

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."

 

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I never asked you for the facts; I know facts. What I asked for is your opinions!

 

As is obvious in the wording of the question: "What specifics in May's deal do you disagree with, and with what would you replace them?"

 

 

Have the specifics of Mays deal been made public ?

Could you post them up here ?