Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[tebee]

1 hour ago, talahtnut said:

Damn, sorry about that mate, them old EU regulation

pipes was it? fit British Standard quality pipes,

no probs. You are a good writer, and I like stuff

you say, but its usually wrong.  All the best for

the New Year, T.

Thanks, same to you !

 

It was a flexi hose to the tap that went - I put it in 15  years ago so maybe it's past is best by now ... bit like a few on here 

 

Of course it went while I was out....

 

Problem is water pressures are much higher in France - my meter has a reducing valve to bring the house side down to 7 bar  and the pressure release valve on the hot water side goes off at 9 bar - Usually dribbles a bit out a couple of times a day, so it must be reaching that. 

[baboon]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

you know,

if smth like that surfaced, wouldn't surprise me a sec.

 

Strikes me as probable. Drag it out and drag it out, while we slowly bleed to death because of the uncertainty. While our Peso drops further. While nothing else affecting the country is discussed, due to our Brexit paralysis.

I want to scream 'Time to bloody well DO SOMETHING! Ba$tards, all of you!'

 

But they won't and all of the rest of us will continue to suffer. Happy 2019, everyone.

 

[talahtnut]

33 minutes ago, tebee said:

Thanks, same to you !

 

It was a flexi hose to the tap that went - I put it in 15  years ago so maybe it's past is best by now ... bit like a few on here 

 

Of course it went while I was out....

 

Problem is water pressures are much higher in France - my meter has a reducing valve to bring the house side down to 7 bar  and the pressure release valve on the hot water side goes off at 9 bar - Usually dribbles a bit out a couple of times a day, so it must be reaching that. 

Mate, you got old Grouse on the Irish whiskey, but

its still not right, it should be Oirish whiskey.

Believe or not, north Essex water is supplied by a

French co., nasty EU chemical taste, but I've got

a well now, piped half a kilometer from top of hill.

I have to admit I've let the side down a bit. I drive

a French crappy tin snail.. well, no-ones perfect.

[tebee]

6 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

"interesting"? developments

........

 

since the clear policy view by Cameron and TM three years ago

a LOT of work has been invested in producing MESS and chaos

 

now,

whatever happens with Brexit, there are lessons to be learned  from this process

one  would hope that UK is up to learning from it and fix shortcomings so it doesn't happen again

 

(if I  were a UK mechanic I know where I would start)

 

 

 

The problem is that what was promised all those years ago is not something that is available. Negotiations were not stalled by the EU but by reality.

 

A good number of MPs have not yet admitted to themselves that reality does not coincide with their worldview. The same is true with much of the population of the UK, but they at least have the excuse that it's not their job to understand these things.

 

Politicians on the other hand have no such excuse. Whether it  is just the quality of people who go into politics these days, our electoral system which elects stupid people or a civil service decimated by tory cuts that can't offer the sage advice it used to, I don't know, but we seem to have a completely useless bunch in now who have no idea how to proceed.  

 

I don't know if we will learn from it , maybe a hard Brexit and the ensuing chaos is what the country needs to rebuild itself from scratch. It's not something I would like to have to live through though.   

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, tebee said:

Irish whiskey surly ....

My point exactly!

[talahtnut]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

7 hours ago, tebee said:

Irish whiskey surly ....

My point exactly!

tebee 2. Grouse 0.

[Scott]

Either stay on topic or face a suspension.  

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, evadgib said:

...& take it again afterwards if they fail?

A fairly predictable outcome when you pose a question before the solution has been analysed, something that many seem unable to grasp.

[billd766]

13 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

come week of 14th January a solution may surface

unless TM changes  her mind again may-deal is up for voting

if it flies - thats the way then -

 

next step will be to ensure that the process following 29th March is meaningful

in my view that means getting rid of TM asap

but alas, if may-deal flies politicians will be inclined to stay with her

so she will be in good position to crap down after 29 March negotiations

 

 

may-deal voted down?

no-deal Brexit then me thinks

 

----

alternatively parliament gets rid of TM asap,

as soon as they are back after xmas,

take charge - debate the issue - synthesize what they want - and do it

including consulting with EU

 

 

 

 

IIRC after TM won the latest vote of confidence she is safe from the Tory party for a year.

 

The only way to get rid of her now (unless she volunteers to go) is by a general election which Labour must win and become the ruling party in parliament.

 

Personally I would not be happy if that should happen.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

A fairly predictable outcome when you pose a question before the solution has been analysed, something that many seem unable to grasp.

No deal brexit (once it was obvious that the eu had no intention of genuinely negotiating) is easy to "grasp" - but uk politicians have no intention of doing so - IMO.

 

They should have started preparing for no deal when the eu came out with it's negotiating 'agenda list'.  Instead, they agreed to the eu's ridiculous agenda list..... and then May declared "no deal is better than a bad deal" in an attempt to distract attention from the unbelievably bad agreed agenda list (from the uk's POV), to delude the electorate.....

 

Now, May has changed to this to 'accept my and the eu's appalling deal (for the uk) - or no brexit'!

 

The only slightly 'bright' side, is that politicians have painted themselves into a 'corner' - as they know the electorate realise that the 'deal' is very bad indeed, so it seems unlikely that May will get MPs to support her 'deal' as they're not suicidal ????.  Subsequently, genuine brexit may happen by default.

Edited January 3, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[melvinmelvin]

25 minutes ago, billd766 said:

IIRC after TM won the latest vote of confidence she is safe from the Tory party for a year.

 

The only way to get rid of her now (unless she volunteers to go) is by a general election which Labour must win and become the ruling party in parliament.

 

Personally I would not be happy if that should happen.

PM and her cabinet can still be ousted with a non conf in gov. motion if passed by parliament.

(I think)

 

(don't know what effect, if any, the non conf that Corbyn tabled before xmas will have, if treated and passed)

 

(there are ways and means to help TM to volunteer to go)

Edited January 3, 2019 by melvinmelvin

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

No deal brexit (once it was obvious that the eu had no intention of genuinely negotiating) is easy to "grasp" - but uk politicians have no intention of doing so - IMO.

 

They should have started preparing for no deal when the eu came out with it's negotiating 'agenda list'.  Instead, they agreed to the eu's ridiculous agenda list..... and then May declared "no deal is better than a bad deal" in an attempt to distract attention from the unbelievably bad agreed agenda list (from the uk's POV), to delude the electorate.....

 

Now, May has changed to this to 'accept my and the eu's appalling deal (for the uk) - or no brexit'!

 

The only slightly 'bright' side, is that politicians have painted themselves into a 'corner' - as they know the electorate realise that the 'deal' is very bad indeed, so it seems unlikely that May will get MPs to support her 'deal' as they're not suicidal ????.  Subsequently, genuine brexit may happen by default.

easy to agree with lots of that (hindsight is the only true wisdom)

 

but on the background of your sketch above you would still let TM continue with UK and UK's future as her personal plaything

rather than follow a path that could risk a Corbyn/Labour government.

you are at least in good company - there are many on these Brexit threads that strongly oppose Corbyn

 

seems to me that somehow what is happening now (and has been happening for the past couple of years)

is that UK after 40+ years is being dragged out of EU and placed on a path of independent/sovereign country

by the lesser of 2 evils (tm vs jc)

 

not really a good way of building a good future for UK

 

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

easy to agree with lots of that (hindsight is the only true wisdom)

 

but on the background of your sketch above you would still let TM continue with UK and UK's future as her personal plaything

rather than follow a path that could risk a Corbyn/Labour government.

you are at least in good company - there are many on these Brexit threads that strongly oppose Corbyn

 

seems to me that somehow what is happening now (and has been happening for the past couple of years)

is that UK after 40+ years is being dragged out of EU and placed on a path of independent/sovereign country

by the lesser of 2 evils (tm vs jc)

 

not really a good way of building a good future for UK

 

"but on the background of your sketch above you would still let TM continue with UK and UK's future as her personal plaything"

 

It's v. obvious that the uk's future is not May's "personal plaything", as even MPs know that her 'deal' is very bad indeed - and so she had to postphone the vote in an attempt to win them over.....  An attempt likely doomed to failure as the electorate know that her 'deal' is only a good deal for the eu!

 

 

"rather than follow a path that could risk a Corbyn/Labour government.

you are at least in good company - there are many on these Brexit threads that strongly oppose Corbyn"

 

No idea why you would say this, as I've posted little about Corbyn - other than pointing out he's a hypocrite for not standing up for his beliefs?

Edited January 3, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

"but on the background of your sketch above you would still let TM continue with UK and UK's future as her personal plaything"

 

It's v. obvious that the uk's future is not May's "personal plaything", as even MPs know that her 'deal' is very bad indeed - and so she had to postphone the vote in an attempt to win them over.....  An attempt likely doomed to failure as the electorate know that her 'deal' is only a good deal for the eu!

 

 

"rather than follow a path that could risk a Corbyn/Labour government.

you are at least in good company - there are many on these Brexit threads that strongly oppose Corbyn"

 

No idea why you would say this, as I've posted little about Corbyn - other than pointing out he's a hypocrite for not standing up for his beliefs?

re plaything;

TM's deal voted down or accepted, she will be in the driver's seat unless removed, free to continue her ways,

with parliament as pretty lame lookers on

even in the case of hard Brexit there will be tons and tons of issues to be sorted out with EU after 29th

 

sorry if I misunderstood you

but in post #943 above I understood that you expressed likely unhappiness in the case that JC should take over

 

(at any rate as we say in Yorkshire,

 regardless of what we express here on TVF this process will proceed along its skewed path

 offering amusement to some and despair to some

 (unless some drastic measures are taken and somebody take charge))

 

anyway

Belhaven time!

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by melvinmelvin
forgot

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

No deal brexit (once it was obvious that the eu had no intention of genuinely negotiating) is easy to "grasp" - but uk politicians have no intention of doing so - IMO.

John McEnroe would have summed that up quite well.

[dunroaming]

So now David Davis has said that Theresa May could delay the "meaningful vote" again if it looks like she will lose it.  Pushing it to the point of no return to try to force MPs to agree to it.  Beggars belief!    

[AlexRich]

On 1/2/2019 at 4:42 AM, billd766 said:

If I were an MP I would seriously consider what my constituents want as they are the ones who voted for you to become an MP. They too have memories and votes.

In which case they will be pressing for a second referendum, a final say on the Brexit options on the table.

[AlexRich]

21 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I assume thats a NO then you can't provided any links to support your posts

Typical remainer doesn't provide any evidence to support their posts but always ask leavers to provide evidence to backup their posts

I think posters are tired of people asking for links and never acknowledging when they receive them ... because their bluff has been called. 

[evadgib]

35 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

So now David Davis has said that Theresa May could delay the "meaningful vote" again if it looks like she will lose it.  Pushing it to the point of no return to try to force MPs to agree to it.  Beggars belief!    

Where did you see that?

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by evadgib

[vinny41]

24 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

In which case they will be pressing for a second referendum, a final say on the Brexit options on the table.

A final say on the deal  the ballot paper options would be

1) Accept the deal with the EU

2) Leave without a deal

Remain wouldn't be an option as that was on the 2016 referendum and we all know the outcome to leave or remain

 

 

[dunroaming]

24 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Where did you see that?

 

Flagged up on MSN but the quote is from the Evening Standard.  You will find it on their website under politics.

 

 

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

A final say on the deal  the ballot paper options would be

1) Accept the deal with the EU

2) Leave without a deal

Remain wouldn't be an option as that was on the 2016 referendum and we all know the outcome to leave or remain

 

 

"Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..."

 

Look, having a majority agree with you in an advisory referendum was your high water mark, your zenith.

 

Now accept the fact that grown ups are not going to give you what you want as it would be too damaging.

 

Enough.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

"Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..."

 

Look, having a majority agree with you in an advisory referendum was your high water mark, your zenith.

 

Now accept the fact that grown ups are not going to give you what you want as it would be too damaging.

 

Enough.

Don't see the remainers complaining much about the 1975 EU referendum which also was advisory

The Referendum Act 1975 (c. 33) also known simply as the Referendum Act was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which made legal provision for the holding of a non-binding referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Communities (EC)—generally known at the time in the UK, ...

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Don't see the remainers complaining much about the 1975 EU referendum which also was advisory

The Referendum Act 1975 (c. 33) also known simply as the Referendum Act was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which made legal provision for the holding of a non-binding referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Communities (EC)—generally known at the time in the UK, ...

And?

[vinny41]

23 hours ago, Grouse said:

It's not that we do not accept the view of the, er, leavers.

 

We don't care 

 

We will continue to do what's best.

Similar to your post  its not that we do not accept the view of the remainers/remoners

We don't care

May is not listening, Corbyn is not listening, Leavers are not listening

 

[dunroaming]

46 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Don't see the remainers complaining much about the 1975 EU referendum which also was advisory

The Referendum Act 1975 (c. 33) also known simply as the Referendum Act was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which made legal provision for the holding of a non-binding referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Communities (EC)—generally known at the time in the UK, ...

The 1975 referendum was held AFTER the negotiations when we knew exactly what the deal entailed.  A very long way off of the 2016 referendum when we all voted blind.  If the government had negotiated the withdrawal agreement first and people knew what they were getting then the result would have been very different!

[baboon]

58 minutes ago, Grouse said:

"Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..."

 

Look, having a majority agree with you in an advisory referendum was your high water mark, your zenith.

 

Now accept the fact that grown ups are not going to give you what you want as it would be too damaging.

 

Enough.

I really wouldn't be too sure about that...

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The 1975 referendum was held AFTER the negotiations when we knew exactly what the deal entailed.  A very long way off of the 2016 referendum when we all voted blind.  If the government had negotiated the withdrawal agreement first and people knew what they were getting then the result would have been very different!

Correct! Nothing wrong with a referendum to ratify a decision.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The 1975 referendum was held AFTER the negotiations when we knew exactly what the deal entailed.  A very long way off of the 2016 referendum when we all voted blind.  If the government had negotiated the withdrawal agreement first and people knew what they were getting then the result would have been very different!

Likewise if the people that voted in the 1975 referendum had a crystal ball to look into the future as see all the things they were told would never happen because there was this safeguard or that safeguard I am sure the 1975 vote would be leave would have won by a landslide

[anon676545345]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

A final say on the deal  the ballot paper options would be

1) Accept the deal with the EU

2) Leave without a deal

Remain wouldn't be an option as that was on the 2016 referendum and we all know the outcome to leave or remain

 

 

 

Unfortunately if those were the options we'd likely end up with May's deal as remoaners would prefer a deal that benefits their unelected overlords than one that benefits their country.