Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

These are the MPs that want to enact the wishes of what the majority voted for, the public are getting sick and tired of being brushed aside, lied to and having to listen to the likes of Soubry and Boles. If they don't want to give us what we voted for, well why don't they stop fudging and come clean and say so. Nobody voted for a remainers Brexit, nobody voted for all this cloak and dagger Brexit. 

Now Ken Clarke is having clandestine tryst with the speaker of the house Bercow, one can only guess what they are colluding between themselves. The whole system stinks, and when someone like Nigel Farage comes on the scene, a very intelligent and a natural born leader it's no wonder remainers show a dislike to him, he's a man that appeals to people who don't like being lied to.

Hopefully this fiasco will bring about a change to British politics, because at the moment it is worse than useless.

 

"The whole system stinks, and when someone like Nigel Farage comes on the scene, a very intelligent and a natural born leader it's no wonder remainers show a dislike to him, he's a man that appeals to people who don't like being lied to."

 

Just like Hitler then.

 

Morons always flock to a demagogue.

 

Just because morons are in a majority does not make them right .....

 

Truely lamentable how far the country has fallen.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Grouse

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

"Leave it at that. Don't complain later that PM did not fancy their views on politics,

this is just childish and sick"

 

In all fairness melvin, do you think the PM really fancied the views of anybody.

 

May is simply not a leader nor a negotiator. What happened nearly three years happened, it cannot be changed. So when some MPs try to accomodate the wishes of the majority of the electorate that voted to leave, don't expect the leavers to be hostile to the MPs that are speaking up for them, it simply won't happen. It's totally pathetic what is happening in the HoC, maybe Nigel Farage should give PM May a masterclass in being a leader, unfortunately I think Corbyn is beyond that stage.

This is the most crucial time in British history for a very long time and all we have is these excuses for MPs doing their damnest to screw it up.

It is obviously difficult for most MPs who clearly know Brexit is a moronic idea but somehow  need to sooth voters. Honourable MPs would vote with their conscience and then resign 

[CG1 Blue]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

There is a clear difference between the knowledge and intellect of average leavers and Remainers

Can you demonstrate this in any way? I'd say there is a good balance on both sides. 

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

"The whole system stinks, and when someone like Nigel Farage comes on the scene, a very intelligent and a natural born leader it's no wonder remainers show a dislike to him, he's a man that appeals to people who don't like being lied to."

 

Just like Hitler then.

 

Morons always flock to a demagogue.

 

Just because morons are in a majority does not make them right .....

 

Truely lamentable how far the country has fallen.

 

 

Grouse,

re has fallen

 

do you seriously think that the fall - will be mitigated

in the case of remain

or

in the case of deal Brexit?

 

(I for one do not think so)

 

 

[aright]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

"The whole system stinks, and when someone like Nigel Farage comes on the scene, a very intelligent and a natural born leader it's no wonder remainers show a dislike to him, he's a man that appeals to people who don't like being lied to."

 

Just like Hitler then.

 

Morons always flock to a demagogue.

 

Just because morons are in a majority does not make them right .....

 

Truely lamentable how far the country has fallen.

 

 

As they do to a Conciliator...……...did someone say Jeremy Corbyn?

[Loiner]

"The whole system stinks, and when someone like Nigel Farage comes on the scene, a very intelligent and a natural born leader it's no wonder remainers show a dislike to him, he's a man that appeals to people who don't like being lied to."
 
Just like Hitler then.
 
Morons always flock to a demagogue.
 
Just because morons are in a majority does not make them right .....
 
Truely lamentable how far the country has fallen.
 
 

Nigel Farage has never been in power in this country or as a MEP to actually make any difference.
You should be blaming Tony Blair for most of the country’s fall over past 20 years. Various others too, but none conned as many as him. We you in the moron majority who voted for the New Labour demagogue?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

"The whole system stinks, and when someone like Nigel Farage comes on the scene, a very intelligent and a natural born leader it's no wonder remainers show a dislike to him, he's a man that appeals to people who don't like being lied to."

 

Just like Hitler then.

 

Morons always flock to a demagogue.

 

Just because morons are in a majority does not make them right .....

 

Truely lamentable how far the country has fallen.

 

 

I certainly wouldn't call Nigel Farage (Knighthood pending) "just like Hitler then", I would reserve that quote for the likes of Vince Cable, Mr Undemocratic, Mr We want a peoples vote.

The insults are coming even often and stronger the nearer we approach 'B day' but it would seem name calling is your preferred means of communication.

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I certainly wouldn't call Nigel Farage (Knighthood pending) "just like Hitler then", I would reserve that quote for the likes of Vince Cable, Mr Undemocratic, Mr We want a peoples vote.

The insults are coming even often and stronger the nearer we approach 'B day' but it would seem name calling is your preferred means of communication.

wow,

is Farage due to get the nod?

 

hilarious

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Probably nothing.

 

It will depend on when the next election or referendum will come along and if a candidate will stand in the constituency where my current (Tory) MP stands.

 

At the referendum I voted for UKIP as I did 2 general elections ago. At that election when NF was the UKIP leader, UKIP came from nowhere and took 3rd place. When NF left UKIP there was nobody who could take his place so UKIP went through more leadership changes than the Tories went through Brexit ministers.

 

Nowadays UKIP are a fragmented party and attract less supporters.

 

I thing of the things I like about NF is that he does his best all the time, unlike today's politicians in the UK who seem to have 3 or 4 agendas going at the same time, and TBH I wouldn't more that 5 baht for the lot of them.

Great that Farage has the initials NF ????

 

How appropriate and how un-British 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

wow,

is Farage due to get the nod?

 

hilarious

 

 

 

 

He has done more for the country than Ringo Starr.????

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

If the Irish want reunification I don't think there would be much opposition to that from the rest of the UK. I didn't know about the GFA mandate for a referendum. 

 

But surely if the only concerns are goods/people moving illegally from the EU to NI (because beyond NI checks would be made at the UK ports), the risks are small enough to only warrant some minor operational changes. Barnier said himself that is what they'd do. 

I don't think the EU want zero tariff insanitary goods flowing into the EU. That maybe Acceptable to the UK but not the EU

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

He has done more for the country than Ringo Starr.????

hehehe

ok

although I think many would question that

or rather many would question that he has done anything worthwhile

 

however, nods are cheap these days

 

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

As I understand it under Article 24 of the WTO, two parties can agree to maintain current tariff and custom arrangements for a reasonable period of time (2-10 years seems to be the expected period), to allow the two sides to work out their future trading relationship. 

 

This would mean that the UK could leave the EU as planned on 29th March with minimal disruption to trade, no issues with the Irish border, and have at least another 2 years to agree a comprehensive FTA with the EU. 

 

Article 24 would require both parties to sign up, and I can think of no reasons why the EU wouldn't agree to this. Perhaps they might insist on the UK continuing to pay some contributions to the EU budget. 

 

This seems like the ideal solution to me assuming it is true - and I've heard nobody disputing it so far. 

 

All 180 WTO members would have to agree.

 

Several are already against

 

basta

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, bomber said:

and these are the politicians the leave voters tell us are going to make Britain Great again,they live in a fantasy world.

What do they mean by Great?

 

Big?

Wealthy?

Powerful?

 

or

 

Respected?

Admired?

Looked up to?

 

Fundamental differences

[Grouse]

40 minutes ago, vogie said:

"Whether superior knowledge and intellect is always a good thing, I couldn't say."

 

Oh I'm sure you could if you tried, it's never stopped you before.

Oh, I don't know; basic brain stem responses are superior in some circumstances. I expect JRMs tongue to dart out and catch him a juice insect at any moment. 

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What do they mean by Great?

 

Big?

Wealthy?

Powerful?

 

or

 

Respected?

Admired?

Looked up to?

 

Fundamental differences

Fun fact Britain used to be Grande Bretagne whereas Brittany where I live used to be Petix  Bretagne

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Can you demonstrate this in any way? I'd say there is a good balance on both sides. 

Good question 

 

If you strip out the outliers and adjust for linguistics, I would say typical Remainers are more knowledgeable even allowing for bias. But you would expect that. Look at the frequency of fallacies and misinterpretations. This gives me no joy; it worries me.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Without us having to read through the entire legal text, what are the basic arguments against it? I haven't heard a single public statement from anyone opposed to it explaining in basic terms why it doesn't hold water. 

Basically art 24 says that if you have agreed a new FTA but not yet ratified/implemented it, you can apply those new tarrifs for   two years before you do , without compromising your most favoured nation status. IE you can start early.

 

It's nothing to do with the case where you've just ripped up your existing FTA 

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

Fun fact Britain used to be Grande Bretagne whereas Brittany where I live used to be Petix  Bretagne

?

thought you lived in Pathum?

 

just up the road from me

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Good question 

 

If you strip out the outliers and adjust for linguistics, I would say typical Remainers are more knowledgeable even allowing for bias. But you would expect that. Look at the frequency of fallacies and misinterpretations. This gives me no joy; it worries me.

jeez Grouse - be reasonable

give me a break, calm down

 

watch kwam dan

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by melvinmelvin

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

?

thought you lived in Pathum?

 

just up the road from me

 

 

half and half normally, though I ended up spending most last year with my stepson in Si sa ket 

 

I'm back in France at the mo sorting out my paperwork for my residence card post brexit and fixing up another house to rent out 

[melvinmelvin]

56 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Nigel Farage has never been in power in this country or as a MEP to actually make any difference.
You should be blaming Tony Blair for most of the country’s fall over past 20 years. Various others too, but none conned as many as him. We you in the moron majority who voted for the New Labour demagogue?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

agree that Farage has never been in power in UK,

but to say he has not had any impact in politics in EP is not fair

 

 

[aright]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Good question 

 

If you strip out the outliers and adjust for linguistics, I would say typical Remainers are more knowledgeable even allowing for bias. But you would expect that. Look at the frequency of fallacies and misinterpretations. This gives me no joy; it worries me.

I personally don't find compartmenting Remainers and Leavers in knowledgeable terms the least bit helpful because in my experience its a 50:50 proposition. However I do separate them in terms of risk. Ime Remainers are far more risk averse than Leavers. This doesn't suit my psyche because the downside of being risk averse is missed opportunities and possible rewards all be they higher risk. It's my schtick!   I should emphasize I don't regard risk averse people as being unintelligent.....I know enough of them. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

Grouse,

re has fallen

 

do you seriously think that the fall - will be mitigated

in the case of remain

or

in the case of deal Brexit?

 

(I for one do not think so)

 

 

Good old Grouse. Never short of an insult when he has no answer.

 

Quoting Hitler too.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

the line between being fired and resigning is pretty thin at this level

 

point is, they couldn't work within the cabinet - their fault not May's - she is the boss

 

PMs command of the cabinet and cabinet politics must be respected-at all cost, that is one of the crucial elements

keeping UK democracy together, that failing - UK is on the slope pointing sharply downwards

 

not happy with PM and her doings? ditch her

however, it is very clear that UK politicians just love her 

 

weird,

going gets a bit tough Tory,  including unruly mob, and DUP, and even Farage rally behind her.

temperature down

they all say

PM is piss artist

PM is piss artist

PM is piss artist

 

this ain't sound at all

 

the guys in that video should never ever be MP again, they lack understanding of the fundamentals

 

In this case I think most of what you say is wrong:

 

The line between being fired and resigning is pretty thin at this level - not really in this new, critical and strange situation. Point is, anyone with any self-respect will resign when they discover that their authority has been undermined throughout and that they have basically been wasting their time. May is the boss but people quit good jobs due to bad bosses every day. May's entitlement for respect has lost more and more validity since 2017. She should have resigned ages ago - I think that she wasn't ditched because her potential rivals are shying away from the Brexit mess - they don't like readymade cans of worms and the certainly don't love her.

 

Not sure about your piss artist bit but I'll sing along to that one if you like.

 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Fair enough

 

I do think it is unacceptable to portray actors reading scripts written for them as genuine. Poor show

 

I have never seen this sort of thing from the Remain camp. Have you? 

You are right. Remain used 9 figure actors.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I thought it might have taught you another lesson - be kind and generous to others. That's Karma; not something that appears in The Brexit Lexicon.

You mean have the people's vote, don't you?

[talahtnut]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Fair enough

 

I do think it is unacceptable to portray actors reading scripts written for them as genuine. Poor show

 

I have never seen this sort of thing from the Remain camp. Have you? 

But that's what you do Grouse, quoting from

government tabloid bog rolls. Pots and kettles.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Good old Grouse. Never short of an insult when he has no answer.

 

Quoting Hitler too.

I think the demagoguery is similar. Don't you?

[talahtnut]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

the line between being fired and resigning is pretty thin at this level

 

point is, they couldn't work within the cabinet - their fault not May's - she is the boss

 

PMs command of the cabinet and cabinet politics must be respected-at all cost, that is one of the crucial elements

keeping UK democracy together, that failing - UK is on the slope pointing sharply downwards

 

not happy with PM and her doings? ditch her

however, it is very clear that UK politicians just love her 

 

weird,

going gets a bit tough Tory,  including unruly mob, and DUP, and even Farage rally behind her.

temperature down

they all say

PM is piss artist

PM is piss artist

PM is piss artist

 

this ain't sound at all

 

the guys in that video should never ever be MP again, they lack understanding of the fundamentals

 

May is not the boss, the civil service is, along with

elements of the EU and America. She is merely toeing

the line.