Rejected at the airport, what is next?

[geriatrickid]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

There are ATM's everywhere , if ones not working , there will be one close by thats working.

   Its not the amount , 20 000 Baht , is the hassle of having to carry the money all the way from Thailand , to an Embassy abroad and then back into Thailand again, just incase you get asked to show it .

  You would need 20 000 in a Thai bank , 20 000 in cash and 10 000 for expenses .

Travelling on buses and staying in hotels with 30 000 Baht cash on you is a security risk

I refer you to the first part of my response. ATMS are not reliable anywhere. They do go down. You have started adding all sorts of amounts. All that is required is 20,000 with which to meet entry requirements for a "tourist".

 

11 hours ago, balo said:

In Norway and Sweden we have a cashless society and even going to the kiosk to buy a hot dog you pay with the card or the smart phone.

Telling a tourist they need to bring 20k in cash will be looked upon as very weird and the tourist will never come back.  

The tourist will never come back? Really? Why then does Thailand remain one of the top destinations for the tourists from Norway and Sweden? You are not a colonial master and do not set the rules for Thailand. these are the local rules. Accept and adapt or pick another destination. 

 

11 hours ago, overherebc said:

The last bit about tax is a wind up, right?

No. It is the law. Sooner or later foreigners get caught and then they go wah wah wah.

 

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

5K Baht cash if worried about a country-wide telecom/electrical failure - covers guesthouse + restaurants for a few days. 

One call to one's home-bank should get new card fed-ex'd in a day or two, or existing card re-activated. 

They can send cash Western-Union in an emergency, but better to use one of one's several other cards in a different ATM machine (a few meters distant) or cash-advance from a bank, while waiting for a replacement-card.

I suggest people attend their classes and document every day's attendance - as a "CYA" move at the least - and why not get what you pay for? 

Immigration might raise their payoff rates, again - but only if they surmise that market can deliver a higher net return with different per-student costs and volume values.  Ending that money-stream seems unlikely.

 

If the "over 50" guideline was removed, he might already have one.  For now, he is making short-stays on shorter-stay visas, which is 100% within the published rules, provided he can afford to stay here and does not take a Thai job.

 

If remitting income from the year earned, yes on taxes.  Too bad Thailand doesn't offer a means of stay in exchange for paying taxes on foreign-sourced income, or more people would do that, instead of holding the money offshore for a year.  This could be a gold-mine in tax-receipts. 

 

But to get that on-track, some sort of convoluted rules would need to be created, so that honest-applicants were forced to pay agents 25K Baht /yr for each extension.  With that in place, immigration might get on-board 100%. 

Wait until you experience a freeze on banking access or a denial of service event. It can 24-72 hours for a response. I just love how  people who have no understanding of international  CC and financial control systems will  state that one can resolve this with a one day FedEx.  When is the last time you received a next day delivery from the EU or North America, especially when the event is on a weekend or a bank holiday?  Send cash western union? That necessitates that there be someone out there who can send the money. What of a person who doesn't have such access? Western Union is fine for sending money to bargirls, but it isn't an appropriate backup for tourists.

 

9 hours ago, sanemax said:

Going abroad every few months for a visa means that he hasnt stayed in Thailand for over six months continuously and even a yearly ed-visa , you have to usually leave Thailand before six months  and come back

Wrong. Tax law says if you stay  more than 6 months out of a country. I suggest you consult a qualified tax accountant or tax lawyer  who is qualified to provided tax advice. Depending upon the country, it also has an impact upon access to national health care programs because it is based upon actual days out of the country on a cumulative basis. In many countries, one can elect to remain resident in one's home country if one files appropriate forms and makes the declaration. The OP has stated thta he has stayed in Thailand for 9 months. Give or take  some additional days for traveling.

The OP is using tourist visas to circumvent the existing longstay visa rules.

It is also a means of tax avoidance. Resident individuals (who live in Thailand for more than 180 days a year) are taxed on their worldwide income. At the very least there is an obligation to file the tax declaration. By using tourist visas, the OP is avoiding the Thai tax obligation despite residing 9 months in Thailand. Don't expect me to have sympathy for a person who is not paying his taxes. Do you think the OP has actually filed a tax declaration in his home country to address the tax obligations?

 

 

 

[elviajero]

37 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

An METV was not intended for Asian tourists convenience. That is almost a joke.

Here is an extract for the Press release from the MFA when the METV was launched.

"The METV is hoped to boost Thailands tourism industry, bring increased revenue to the country and help prepare Thailand for the ASEAN community"

 

That seems conflict with your opinion.

 

37 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

The six month multiple entry tourist visa came about simply to replace the double and triple entry visas before it. They are for long or longer term tourists to have an option better than a 30 day exempt or 60 day single entry TV. 

If the METV was simply to replace the DE/TETV's why did they stop it from being issued locally to Thailand and make it harder for westerners to stay long term as a tourist?

 

37 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

You have not once in this thread acknowledged this and have not responded to most of my questions either. Now you have said at least twice that there is no way to prove income at borders but before you said “ through proper channels “ but now you say there are NO proper channels. Don’t you find those statements COMPLETELY confusing ??? To the average poster ? 

I am really not sure why it is so hard to understand why a 'tourist' doesn't have a way to prove financial status to immigration -- in order to stay in the country long term -- when staying in the country long term is not an option!

 

37 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Okay. For one example $10,000USD CASH on you when you  arrive with your METV.OR a Thai bankbook with a lot of baht ( yes many yearly tourists have this)

It is not about how much money you have. Long term stays are only given for certain reasons, visas and permits after you have met the conditions and criteria issued by immigration. If all we had to do to get a long term stay was wave cash or bank statements at border IO's why would we bother jumping through the hoops to get extensions of stay and long term visas. 

 

Tourist visas, regardless of the number of entries, are designed for visitors that want to holiday/visit short term and leave/return home. The METV was designed to make frequent visits easier, and as you can read from the press release, was created specifically with the ASEAN market in mind.

 

[sanemax]

Just now, geriatrickid said:

I refer you to the first part of my response. ATMS are not reliable anywhere. They do go down. You have started adding all sorts of amounts. All that is required is 20,000 with which to meet entry requirements for a "tourist".

 

And my reply was that you can always find an ATM that works .

The amounts that I added are the amounts required , you need to show a Thai bank account with 20 000 Baht in it when applying for a tourist visa in Laos and the other figure is required for travelling expenses and visas and hotels 

[alex8912]

33 minutes ago, lkv said:

 

A METV allows the same permission of stay, of up to 60 days per entry, just like an SETV, the only difference being, it's multiple entry.

 

It has been designed for tourists to travel multiple times over its validity of 6 months.

 

Yes, those tourists that travel for leisure and return back to work in their home countries to make more money there.

 

That's why proof of employment is required in most places.

 

Who told you that METV was invented for the purpose of staying 60 days, extending 30 days, flying in out same day to get another 60 days, further extend that, and stretch it to 9 months?

 

Ah, the visa run agencies?

 

That's a different matter. They have been using funny terminology when they advised people how to use an METV "correctly".

 

Don't get me wrong, I am on SETVs myself that I am stretching sometimes, and I have spent more than 9 months this year on them, but let's not make it sound that they invented METV to give people an opportunity to spend 9 months in Thailand.

 

It's like saying a 10 year US tourist visa was designed for tourists to spend 10 years in the US.

You quoted a very small part of my post. No one TOLD ME it’s for what you THINK I meant.  But Ubonjoe has even mentioned I’d say 100x it can be used to go for 9 months and you even say it’s for 6 months but if you enter before your use by date you get 60 more days and that could be potentially extended 30 more days. I’ve never spoken to an agent in my life. Your comparison to a USA 10 year multiple entry visa is pretty off too. I and many others DREAM you could get this in Thailand. My Thai friend just got one and you pay ONE time and you get it for 10 years and each entry you get 90 Days not 60. No reporting BS and you can go to the states on a whim. Of course you can’t stay 10 full years but in a METV you can’t even stay 90 days without paying another $1900 baht ( in addition to the $200 you already paid) and a full day at Chaeng Wattana!! So 10 METV’s over 10 years with just one 30 day extension each time will cost you about $2,600USD!!!! A 10 year USA multiple is I think 5000 baht!!! 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Wait until you experience a freeze on banking access or a denial of service event. It can 24-72 hours for a response. I just love how  people who have no understanding of international  CC and financial control systems will  state that one can resolve this with a one day FedEx.  When is the last time you received a next day delivery from the EU or North America, especially when the event is on a weekend or a bank holiday?  Send cash western union? That necessitates that there be someone out there who can send the money. What of a person who doesn't have such access? Western Union is fine for sending money to bargirls, but it isn't an appropriate backup for tourists.

Most people have more than one ATM card from different banks and from different Countries and you can also access your bank account on-line and transfer cash to any account .

[alex8912]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Here is an extract for the Press release from the MFA when the METV was launched.

"The METV is hoped to boost Thailands tourism industry, bring increased revenue to the country and help prepare Thailand for the ASEAN community"

 

That seems conflict with your opinion.

 

If the METV was simply to replace the DE/TETV's why did they stop it from being issued locally to Thailand and make it harder for westerners to stay long term as a tourist?

 

I am really not sure why it is so hard to understand why a 'tourist' doesn't have a way to prove financial status to immigration -- in order to stay in the country long term -- when staying in the country long term is not an option!

 

It is not about how much money you have. Long term stays are only given for certain reasons, visas and permits after you have met the conditions and criteria issued by immigration. If all we had to do to get a long term stay was wave cash or bank statements at border IO's why would we bother jumping through the hoops to get extensions of stay and long term visas. 

 

Tourist visas, regardless of the number of entries, are designed for visitors that want to holiday/visit short term and leave/return home. The METV was designed to make frequent visits easier, and as you can read from the press release, was created specifically with the ASEAN market in mind.

 

You just highlighted the part of the release in red to agree with yourself! The two parts before it 

“The METV is hoped to boost Thailands tourism industry, bring increased revenue to the country”

is EXACTLY what I mean. It IS for tourists who ALSO want to spend 6 or even 7 or maybe 8 months in Thailand with a couple visits out to tour nearby countries and come back. It’s for snowbirds who aren’t here all year, it’s for successful 30 or 40 something’s who want to take a long break from the grind in the West. It could be for a Gap year to students who also worked while in school , it can be for semi retired wanting to check out Thailand and Asia for 6 months. Ubonjoe has mentioned tons of times it could be stretched to 9 months. I think you have a very narrow definition for who an METV is for. And to answer your question about why they stopped the double entry visas ( I could always get a triple entry in my home country however) they stopped them from being avl in Laos and nearby countries because they were probably being abused. The METV has to be obtained in your home country, with a fair amount of paperwork INCLUDING income of 7k usd minimum etc. and to make it easier to be a long term tourist in Thailand / Asia and spend more money here. I simply disagree with your very narrow reason of what an METV is for. The nearby countries have a very easy system fir their short term visits and don’t need an METV. Sure for some ASEAN visit reasons it may help but honestly highlighting only that in red makes me think you don’t know why many posters like myself use an METV for. 

[sanemax]

24 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Here is an extract for the Press release from the MFA when the METV was launched.

"The METV is hoped to boost Thailands tourism industry, bring increased revenue to the country and help prepare Thailand for the ASEAN community"

 

That seems conflict with your opinion.

That means when ASEAN countries open up more , tourists can come to Thailand and then go and visit other ASEAN Countries and come back without the need to get another Visa .

[elviajero]

26 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

You quoted a very small part of my post. No one TOLD ME it’s for what you THINK I meant.  But Ubonjoe has even mentioned I’d say 100x it can be used to go for 9 months and you even say it’s for 6 months but if you enter before your use by date you get 60 more days and that could be potentially extended 30 more days. I’ve never spoken to an agent in my life

It can be used to stay for 6/9 months and people are currently doing so. BUT that is not the purpose of the visa and those people are pushing their luck. Like with all thats gone before, as soon as too many people start taking advantage of a very lax immigration system the loophole gets fully or partially closed. If people, en masse, starting staying months/years using back to back METV's the door will get shut. You have the evidence with this thread. 

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

36 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Here is an extract for the Press release from the MFA when the METV was launched.

"The METV is hoped to boost Thailands tourism industry, bring increased revenue to the country and help prepare Thailand for the ASEAN community"

 

That seems conflict with your opinion.

That means when ASEAN countries open up more , tourists can come to Thailand and then go and visit other ASEAN Countries and come back without the need to get another Visa .

No it doesn't!!!

 

It means the METV is to make it easier for ASEAN nationals to visit Thailand.

[alex8912]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

It can be used to stay for 6/9 months and people are currently doing so. BUT that is not the purpose of the visa and those people are pushing their luck. Like with all thats gone before, as soon as too many people start taking advantage of a very lax immigration system the loophole gets fully or partially closed. If people, en masse, starting staying months/years using back to back METV's the door will get shut. You have the evidence with this thread. 

Yes I agree with your last sentence for sure.  But have there ever been reports yet of people using an METV once a year for 3 or 4 years ( they started in 2015) and staying in Thailand ( with an exit or two ) for 6 months time period and getting turned back??  This guy did 4 in a row and maxed out every one to 9 months I think that is a big difference. I also think since METV’s are new and harder to get that there is less abuse of them. 

[elviajero]

14 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

You just highlighted the part of the release in red to agree with yourself! The two parts before it 

“The METV is hoped to boost Thailands tourism industry, bring increased revenue to the country”

You have got to be kidding me. You said that "An METV was not intended for Asian tourists convenience. That is almost a joke." So I highlighted the part relevant to prove you wrong.

 

16 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

t IS for tourists who ALSO want to spend 6 or even 7 or maybe 8 months in Thailand with a couple visits out to tour nearby countries and come back. It’s for snowbirds who aren’t here all year, it’s for successful 30 or 40 something’s who want to take a long break from the grind in the West. It could be for a Gap year to students who also worked while in school , it can be for semi retired wanting to check out Thailand and Asia for 6 months.

No it's not. It's for people that live outside of Thailand that want to visit frequently for tourism.

 

18 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Ubonjoe has mentioned tons of times it could be stretched to 9 months.

It can. So what. That doesn't change anything. 

 

19 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

And to answer your question about why they stopped the double entry visas ( I could always get a triple entry in my home country however) they stopped them from being avl in Laos and nearby countries because they were probably being abused.

Abused how? By long term tourists by any chance!

 

20 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

The METV has to be obtained in your home country, with a fair amount of paperwork INCLUDING income of 7k usd minimum etc. and to make it easier to be a long term tourist in Thailand / Asia and spend more money here.

Wrong again. it was created to stop the types of people that stayed in Thailand on a shoestring/working, using back to back DETV's to stay long term and had no reason to go home.

 

The reason some consulates insist on proof of a job business is to evidence the person has a reason to return home and won't be hanging around in Thailand for years.

 

23 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

I simply disagree with your very narrow reason of what an METV is for. The nearby countries have a very easy system fir their short term visits and don’t need an METV. Sure for some ASEAN visit reasons it may help but honestly highlighting only that in red makes me think you don’t know why many posters like myself use an METV for. 

Wrong again. I help people get visas all the time for whatever reason they want to visit Thailand for. The difference between us is that I understand what the visa is, it's target market and how it fits in the visa/permit system; whereas you to want the reason for it's existence to fit your biased opinion.

 

I don't care why people get a METV, and will continue helping people get them, but I will also tell them the reality of what they are buying.

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Yes I agree with your last sentence for sure.  But have there ever been reports yet of people using an METV once a year for 3 or 4 years ( they started in 2015) and staying in Thailand ( with an exit or two ) for 6 months time period and getting turned back??  This guy did 4 in a row and maxed out every one to 9 months I think that is a big difference. I also think since METV’s are new and harder to get that there is less abuse of them. 

Correct, up to now METV holders have been given a relatively easy pass. But if you agree that maxing out the METV for 4 years is an issue you must concede that they are not meant as a long term way of staying in the country.

 

They are harder to get, but the abuse of tourist visa status continues, and if the numbers grow the Thai authorities will clamp down as they have with visa exemption, SETV's, ED visas etc. I am sure that the Thai authorities aren't bothered by a smallish number of long term tourists, especially the METV holders. As I've said many times, it's a numbers game.

[sanemax]

34 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No it doesn't!!!

 

It means the METV is to make it easier for ASEAN nationals to visit Thailand.

So, why didnt they just make that visa available to ASEAN's then ?

Why can anyone get one , if it was just for ASEAN's ?

[elviajero]

27 minutes ago, sanemax said:

So, why didnt they just make that visa available to ASEAN's then ?

Why can anyone get one , if it was just for ASEAN's ?

I didn't say it was just for ASEAN's. It is for everyone. But it was developed specifically with the increasing ASEAN market in mind. 

[onera1961]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

It was dropped because it was too much of a pain for the IO's to go through each passport to manually count days.

And were unable to upgrade their system to do it using computers. What a shame.

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

It is not about how much money you have. Long term stays are only given for certain reasons, visas and permits after you have met the conditions and criteria issued by immigration. If all we had to do to get a long term stay was wave cash or bank statements at border IO's why would we bother jumping through the hoops to get extensions of stay and long term visas. 

What you say just doesn't make sense.

How do you get a visa or extension for being retired or married? By showing money.

You say a tourist has to prove on entry how he is financing his stay, just showing cash is not enough in your opinion. Why should this only apply to somebody on a tourist visa? The IO at the border (or when doing an extension) could very well wonder how somebody using for example a marriage visa or retirement visa can finance his stay, because all he had to do to get his visa was to show money, but not how he can support a long term stay, like where the money that he uses for his expenses while living in Thailand is comming from.

 

So if the denial for 12(2) were a legit reason we would see people with other kinds of visas, especially people on marriage visa who stay in the country long time and don't have a work permit, be denied for the same reason, because the IO could also wonder how they finance their stay. But i think we never had a report about this. This makes it quite clear that 12(2) is an arbitary reason to deny somebody on a touris visa because an IO wants to deny entry for whatever other reason.

[DrJack54]

Of course these debates have been going on for years. Terms such as long term tourist, the lack of specific rules especially regarding the group of folk pretty much living in los on various visas, VE, etc.

Regardless of anyone's opinion or interruption, it would seem that Thailand is looking to immigration "turnover" bit like restaurant business. Get em in get em out. 

Look at last few years. I was here for some years, over 50, and I never bothered with non- o. I just used visa exempt entries. I was flying to Vietnam every few weeks anyway. The Thai partner felt sorry I needed to travel so much for visa. I was loving it. Anyway TI put a stop to that. I then went onto double/triple setv. One day at Saigon I was applying for tourist visa, the lady politely said "you over 50 stay long time Thailand, why not you get correct visa non-o". So my next visa was a non-o. Might add that soon after i went on to non o, they replaced double and triple entries with METV. At the time, i thought no way will they make them only available in home country. They did. Now more and more reports of folk being hassled or refused entry. As per the OP..

There is current article (TV news I think) about predicted areas of huge growth in future tourism from certain countries. India was a heavy focus along with China etc. 

I don't see any silver lining on the horizon for those with no visa options (elite and o-x excluded) that won't be met with more stiff opposition from TI in future. 

While at it, increase financial requirements for non-o would be good idea.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[poohy]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

I know why people use ATM's, and that depending on the amounts being sent it can be a cheaper option. But most sensible 'TOURISTS' will travel with some local currency or exchangeable currency.

I agree they do indeed ( i probably have 300USD in mixed currencies in my wallet from other trips BUT 20000THB thats 500 quid in your wallet i dont know many folks me included who ever have that amount in cash on them. 

 

Maybe thats whats required ( if so i think respectfully the law is an ass) thank god it doesnt apply to me as i would fail miserably

[onera1961]

28 minutes ago, poohy said:

Maybe thats whats required ( if so i think respectfully the law is an ass) thank god it doesnt apply to me as i would fail miserably

It applied to all visas, including Non-O. I have entered Thailand may be a few dozen times in the last 14 years and I was never asked to show 20K. Now I plan to keep 20K in Traveler's check even though I have an O-A visa

Edited December 3, 2018 by onera1961

[JackThompson]

36 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Now more and more reports of folk being hassled or refused entry. As per the OP..

Only at checkpoints that do not follow Thai law, which has a limited set of specified-reasons (not "unsubstantiated suspicions") for which entry may be denied.  Avoid the airports (Chang Mai may be OK) and the Aranya/Poipet border, and these problems do not exist for Tourist Visa holders.

 

38 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

While at it, increase financial requirements for non-o would be good idea.

Reduction in accessibility to self-financed Western visitors, and higher-requirements on expats long-stay extensions, would only make sense if there were a lack of housing or food to sell.  As a direct result of immigration practices at the airports and other options-reductions, condos are sitting empty, and restaurants are closing. 

 

Flooding in more zero-baht types is not going to improve matters - only stress infrastructure and destroy the desirability of visiting due to overcrowding, for minimal returns.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Wait until you experience a freeze on banking access or a denial of service event. It can 24-72 hours for a response.

On all my bank-accounts / cards at once?  Foreign and domestic?

 

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Send cash western union? That necessitates that there be someone out there who can send the money. What of a person who doesn't have such access? Western Union is fine for sending money to bargirls, but it isn't an appropriate backup for tourists.

"Bar girls"?  Don't they have bank-accounts?  I would bet some make more money than I do.

 

WU is a ripoff, fee-wise, but it works in an emergency.  Banks will offer to use this to help you in an emergency situation (friends have done it - lost wallet, etc).
 

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Do you think the OP has actually filed a tax declaration in his home country to address the tax obligations?

Do you have any evidence he is not paying taxes in his home country on his income?  Why speculate on this.  It's his problem to deal with tax-issues, and has nothing to do with his being denied-entry.

[JackThompson]

 

8 hours ago, lkv said:

I am under the impression they designed the METV for the Asian market, primarily China, for them to have a better option than VOA and to come a few weekends in 6 months, even though the pricing ratio is ×5 to an SETV. You pay extra for convenience.

 

I don't think they designed it for the Western/other markets to jump into a plane to Vietnam in the morning and come back in the afternoon every 90 days, after extending each and every 60 day stay for a further 30 days, if that makes sense.

 

7 hours ago, lkv said:

Who told you that METV was invented for the purpose of staying 60 days, extending 30 days, flying in out same day to get another 60 days, further extend that, and stretch it to 9 months?

It is unrealistic to assume they didn't know how it would be used, and they wrote the rules to allow it to be used exactly as folks are commenting that it was "not intended" to be used. 

 

I think the rules exist as-is, is because people using the METV in this way are bringing in money, and only a fraction of "the powers that be" want to stop those money-flows.  If TAT and the MFA had their way, this visa would be offered nearby, also.  Given we are talking about the people who literally write the rules, they could have included a minimum "stay out" period in the visa's terms - or add it on right now as a police-order.  They could apply that to SETV returns also - no problem. 

 

When I was spending time here on Tourist Visas, I would have been delighted if they erased all doubt about entry-issues, and set a solid rule like, "Cannot return for 7 days" or similar - which would end all speculation about Tourist Visa usage for illegal-work.  This rule would still harm visitor-spending in the tourist-sector - better to just offer an affordable visa to Under-50s - but would do less damage than the current uncertainty.

 

7 hours ago, lkv said:

It's like saying a 10 year US tourist visa was designed for tourists to spend 10 years in the US.

It would be that - but there are additional legal reasons for rejected-entry into the USA Those restrictions include coming to meet a prospective spouse/gf, coming to look for legal employment opportunities, etc; those are illegal for entry to the USA.  There are no corresponding rules like these in Thailand's code.  We could do a long tangent on why those differences exist - massive visa-fraud / illegal overstay and work, welfare, birthright-citizenship, asylum law differences (Thailand not a signatory to a UN pact), USA's "intent to marry" visas (no Thai equivalent), etc.

[Mark1066]

20 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Only a fool relies on an ATM machine'

- ATM machines do go down and there have been system wide failures.

- Cards can be lost, or rendered inoperable

- Home banks can freeze cards.

Immigration has no way of knowing if the visitor actually has some money. Considering the number of threads in TVF, including this one, that discuss how to play the system, the immigration department's position is reasonable.

20,000 baht is an insignificant amount today, whether you wish to accept that or not and isn't even enough to cover a basic return fare change if someone is refused at the port of entry.

 

In respect to the OP's inquiry, encouraging him to play the ED visa game is wrong. This is not waht the ED visas were intended for, and the more people try to use them to circumvent the intent of the  visa rules, the more likely we will lose access to the ED visa altogether.  The OP should just get a proper long stay visa. He should also start paying his income taxes in Thailand as he is supposed to if he lives in Thailand for more than 6 months a year.

Right, so every single ATM in the country is suddenly going to stop working, along with the Visa and Mastercard payment processing systems? If you're preparing for the apocalypse then you might have a point, otherwise you're just being ridiculous. $600 is significant to me in as much as I would not want to lose it, hence I don't carry that much in my wallet. Let's not start a childish pissing match: it's invariably the financially insecure who feel the need to boast about such matters.

[onera1961]

49 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Reduction in accessibility to self-financed Western visitors, and higher-requirements on expats long-stay extensions,

Why only Western visitors? How about Singaporean, Korean, Japanese? 

 

46 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

WU is a ripoff, fee-wise, but it works in an emergency.  Banks will offer to use this to help you in an emergency situation (friends have done it - lost wallet, etc).

They charge only $5 (same as Money gram) but their exchange rate is bad. However, it is the only game (and money gram) for instant cash transfer. 

 

49 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As a direct result of immigration practices at the airports and other options-reductions, condos are sitting empty, and restaurants are closing. 

I made few observations in the past few weeks in Bangkok and Pattaya. May be they built more condos and opened plenty of unnecessary restaurants which are doomed to fail.  Good for everybody and now people like me can rent it for cheap.

Mukataas are packed with Thais, Korean, Japanese and MKs in malls are packed with Thais. Street stalls are also packed with Thais. Mall food courts are also packed with Thais. Went to Korean shopping malls in Soi 10 Sukumvit, packed with Koreans and Thais. Japanese enclave in Thaniya street, packed with Japanese and Thai bar girls. Nana beer bars packed with farangs. Discos in bangkok and Pattaya packed with different nationalities. My familiar McDonalds and KFCs have also the same traffic, Thais, Farangs, Indians.

 

Of course, without any real statistics, observations are only observations and biased towards what one believes. 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by onera1961

[jackdd]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Send cash western union? That necessitates that there be someone out there who can send the money. What of a person who doesn't have such access?

Who is completely alone in this world? I assume most people have friends / family who could send some money ????

And even if somebody doesn't: At least i have a bank (and probably there are more than just my bank) that offers an "emergency packet", in case i lose my credit card they send me money (probably western union or similar), and within 48 hours they will deliver a new credit card to me.

[lkv]

59 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is unrealistic to assume they didn't know how it would be used, and they wrote the rules to allow it to be used exactly as folks are commenting that it was "not intended" to be used. 

 

I think the rules exist as-is, is because people using the METV in this way are bringing in money, and only a fraction of "the powers that be" want to stop those money-flows.  If TAT and the MFA had their way, this visa would be offered nearby, also.  Given we are talking about the people who literally write the rules, they could have included a minimum "stay out" period in the visa's terms - or add it on right now as a police-order.  They could apply that to SETV returns also - no problem. 

Again, they made it hard to get in most countries. Proof of employment and some countries want to see the 200K baht "equivalent" for 6 months, month in month out. Some others are happy with seeing a recent balance of it. This discrepancy could occur because of the local Embassy's interpretation, or segregation coming from the top. Likely the latter in my opinion. Non O-X also segregates, plus specific nationalities get dedicated Immigration desks or e-gates, so it would not surprise me.

 

If they had a fixed rule such as 90 in 180 or 180 in 360, it would be more rigid and it would not allow this segregation, that they can freely do now as the wind blows. Today we like China, tomorrow we like Europe.

 

Never say never about the police order limiting the stay in the future, they have pulled that stunt before and then changed their mind.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by lkv

[lkv]

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Resident individuals (who live in Thailand for more than 180 days a year) are taxed on their worldwide income. At the very least there is an obligation to file the tax declaration. By using tourist visas, the OP is avoiding the Thai tax obligation despite residing 9 months in Thailand. Don't expect me to have sympathy for a person who is not paying his taxes. Do you think the OP has actually filed a tax declaration in his home country to address the tax obligations?

No, there is no obligation unless the overseas income is brought into Thailand in the year it has been earned.

 

This loophole was invented by the Thai Elites to launder their overseas income and pay zero tax.

 

Not doing the above does not create an obligation to file a tax declaration.

 

Doing the above, as far as I am concerned, also does not create that obligation, because in my interpretation, "that's last year's money", what I am spending now.

 

The Thai Revenue Department has no interest in pursuing this matter further, for very good reasons.

 

And Immigration and Revenue Department are two different entities that are not connected.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by lkv

[sanemax]

9 hours ago, elviajero said:

No it doesn't!!!

 

It means the METV is to make it easier for ASEAN nationals to visit Thailand.

No, the Visa was designed for people who want to visit Thailand and also visit other Countries in the region .

   People who want to tour South East Asia .

People who arrive in Thailand can use Thailand as the hub of their travels .

[onera1961]

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

I refer you to the first part of my response. ATMS are not reliable anywhere. They do go down. You have started adding all sorts of amounts. All that is required is 20,000 with which to meet entry requirements for a "tourist".

Instead of debating 20K, let's all agree that it is an archaic rule and they should get rid of it or install an ATM and ask the tourist to go get 20K from ATM. 

 

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The tourist will never come back? Really? Why then does Thailand remain one of the top destinations for the tourists from Norway and Sweden?

Tourist will always comeback. There is a magic to Thailand and I am yet to figure it  out why. When Tim Ferris wrote "4-hours Work Week" he did not tell everybody to go to Chiangmai and become a perpetual tourist but that's what most perpetual tourists, caught in immigration rejection, do now a days. You want to make Thailand as your base to explore SEA, fine. Do it in one or two years. Even Europeans who have access to 22 countries to live and work without a visa, seldom become a perpetual tourist in another country. 

 

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Wrong. Tax law says if you stay  more than 6 months out of a country.

When I got my O-A visa, there was a note that I must report to immigration every 90-day. But there was no indication anywhere that says I must file a tax return in Thailand if I stay more than 180-day. There is no basis for this argument. If one is working as a remote worker, then yes you have to file in Thailand first and and then reduce your tax in your home country tax filing. 



 

[moe666]

I think after four years of tourist visas of course only staying 9 months is the give away also the my staff is in Thailand. Maybe the OP should look into a business visa or something that would cover what ever he is doing in Thailand