Income Affidavit for annual Retirement extension

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, JLCrab said:

The set fee per Ministerial Regulation as in Section 35 of the Immigration Act is 1900 baht. Anything above and beyond that is a bribe.

There will be some service fee from an agent helping you, they aren't in the business of doing things for free. The person using agent's services is not paying any bribe directly themselves, but is 'complicit' in that payment.

It is sad but a reality someone desperately wanting to stay may have to use these facilities, and their only way is to pay say 25,000 they cannot really afford, rather than find 400,000 for 2 months. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by jacko45k

[mikebell]

On 12/4/2018 at 6:48 AM, ubonjoe said:

I suggest you get a income affidavit that will be valid for 6 months from the date it is done. 

There is a consular outreach in Pattaya on the 12th where you could get it if the date you will do your extension is within 6 months of that day.

Is the consular outreach for US citizens or UK?

[JLCrab]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

There will be some service fee from an agent helping you, they aren't in the business of doing things for free. The person using agent's services is not paying any bribe directly themselves, but is 'complicit' in that payment.

You folks can dance around this all you like. If the Thai official receives more than the fee noted in the ministerial regulations for the IMM Act Section 35 procedure, which is 1900 Baht, then both the agent and the applicant for the extension are suborning a bribe.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, mikebell said:

Is the consular outreach for US citizens or UK?

Only those from the US, 

The UK embassy has never done outreaches.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

You folks can dance around this all you like. If the Thai official receives more than the fee noted in the ministerial regulations for the IMM Act Section 35 procedure, which is 1900 Baht, then both the agent and the applicant for the extension are suborning a bribe.

And then what, you go on so much about it,tell us whats your point and then give it rest!

[JLCrab]

8 minutes ago, Olmate said:

And then what, you go on so much about it,tell us whats your point and then give it rest!

I'll give a rest when people stop saying on here that giving 20K baht or so to an agent, who then gives a good chunk of that compensation to a government official who then waives what is otherwise required for an extension of stay, is a legal procedure.

 

It would be a legal procedure if the official only receives 1900 baht -- otherwise it is a bribe.

 

And this ain't your show.

[sumrit]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I'll give a rest when people stop saying on here that giving 20K baht or so to an agent, who then gives a good chunk of that compensation to a government official who then waives what is otherwise required for an extension of stay, is a legal procedure.

 

It would be a legal procedure if the official only receives 1900 baht -- otherwise it is a bribe.

 

And this ain't your show.

Seconded.

 

Also, if some of that money paid to the agent is used to pay a bank official to supply a letter 'confirming' the required money has been seasoned when in fact it hasn't, this is also illegal and means the expat is part of the conspiracy.

[Olmate]

8 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I'll give a rest when people stop saying on here that giving 20K baht or so to an agent, who then gives a good chunk of that compensation to a government official who then waives what is otherwise required for an extension of stay, is a legal procedure.

 

It would be a legal procedure if the official only receives 1900 baht -- otherwise it is a bribe.

 

And this ain't your show.

Show maybe ,you just being pigheaded more likely.Accept your right as usual and be happy with that. 

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Show maybe ,you just being pigheaded more likely.Accept your right as usual and be happy with that. 

Are you suggesting something I have posted is inaccurate?

 

When the current Immigration Act was written in 2522/1979, I would guess that the Section 35 waiver was included more as a humanitarians option available to senior officials so that persons of benefit to the Kingdom could remain on extension of stay despite their financial difficulties.

 

I do not think it likely was intended to be a bribe mill which is what it has now become.

Edited December 5, 2018 by JLCrab

[LawrenceN]

21 hours ago, davhend25 said:

I fully agree, "such as" means stating an example of what will work, not necessarily excluding other options, "such as" the monthly income method.  But this option is already clearly stated on the Thai Immigration Bureau's website, https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22. And no mention that it has to be deposited into a Thai bank account.

That's a very useful link. Thanks for providing it.

 

I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence. Not sure I disagree, either. Item 4 of the second section, Required Documentation, does state that the bank account must be in Thailand. I'll take another look and see what Mrs. LawrenceN thinks, too.

 

As a public service, I will post a translation (unless somebody posts an official English version quickly) within an hour or two. Again, stay tuned!

[Pattaya46]

12 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

As a public service, I will post a translation (unless somebody posts an official English version quickly) within an hour or two. Again, stay tuned!

There is already an "ENG" option on the top-right of that page 

(https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22)

[JLCrab]

I don't know what is the date of that IMM page but it makes no mention of having an income affidavit from ones embassy or consulate which heretofore was considered as necessary

 

"Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends;"

Edited December 5, 2018 by JLCrab

[LawrenceN]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

There is already an "ENG" option on the top-right of that page 

(https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22)

Thanks for that. I was nearly done with my translation. Some of mine were word for word. ????

[Olmate]

6 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Are you suggesting something I have posted is inaccurate?

 

When the current Immigration Act was written in 2522/1979, I would guess that the Section 35 waiver was included more as a humanitarians option available to senior officials so that persons of benefit to the Kingdom could remain on extension of stay despite their financial difficulties.

 

I do not think it likely was intended to be a bribe mill which is what it has now become.

You guess and suggest, I suggest your probably right. However your points of view, accurate or not won’t change anything in real terms.I suggest the whole scenario will only entrench the need for agents to assist with applications and guess you won’t agree.

[Olmate]

7 hours ago, sumrit said:

Seconded.

 

Also, if some of that money paid to the agent is used to pay a bank official to supply a letter 'confirming' the required money has been seasoned when in fact it hasn't, this is also illegal and means the expat is part of the conspiracy.

You mean an official at the bank where our money is held, maybe corrupt? But the expat is responsible!The expat borrowed the money, the seasoning has been waived. Where,s the logic there. Sounds ok till you think about it!

 

 

[tropo]

On 12/4/2018 at 4:23 PM, LawrenceN said:

Here's the relevant part, "Of course this letter is no longer needed if the embassy no longer issues it,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Lt Col Archeep Jaroensuntisuk explained to The Phuket News today (Nov 22)."

I stand by my statement. Deputy Chief Archeep is making a logical, reasonable statement. As long as they continue to list ฿65,000 per month as acceptable income, he is implying that the letter is meaningless. Proof of acceptable income is what they're after. That's my interpretation of this mess, and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. My extension is due in January, and I'm planning to go with bank statements and retirement account statements only. I also hope I'm right, and acknowledge there's a chance I could be wrong. I'll report on what I learn. Stay tuned!

You're desperately trying to interpret his comments in a way that favour your application based on monthly income, BUT, I was commenting on the meaning taken directly from what he said and not trying to read between the lines... which was: if you have no income letter you can put 800k in the bank. You've even gone as far as complimenting him, suggesting he was logical and reasonable. Yes, he didn't 100% preclude some type of income verification, but anyone reading that would have thought so.

 

Let's all hope you are correct in your assessment, and successful in your application next month.

[tropo]

On 12/4/2018 at 4:05 PM, sumrit said:

But if the service you're paying for with that fee includes an illegal act by the agent/other persons then you are a party to it.

May I remind you this is in Thailand, a country where overthrowing elected governments is perfectly legal and you can even be praised and rewarded for it. If the whole department is in on it (expedited visa extension renewals) and profiting from it, who are you to worry about legalities? When people use words like "bribe" it suggests that a person is slipping an undisclosed amount of money, in secret, under the table to influence an official. In this case, they are asking and even hoping for it. They even have a set fee.

[tropo]

19 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Sounds like a mob hit.

That's twice you've replied to the same quote. I take a day off and you're still here trying to reduce institutionalized corruption in Thailand, constantly citing acts of government, as though they have any real meaning. There are no bribes here, just set fees.

 

Having said that, I've been acquiring retirement extensions for the paltry sum of 1900 baht for 9 years and counting. It's quite possible that in the future I may be supporting or encouraging these expedited services that you dislike so much. Ironically I was talking to a Thai person at my condo building the other day and he mentioned that his "papa", a rich foreigner, pays 20k to an agent to get his extensions. He doesn't want anything to do with the immigration office here, even though the 800k bank deposit would be chump change for him.

[Bill Miller]

19 hours ago, mikebell said:

Is the consular outreach for US citizens or UK?

December 12th at The Ducit in Pattaya is US Consulate ouitreach.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Bill Miller
Can't spell for beans!

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

That's twice you've replied to the same quote. I take a day off and you're still here trying to reduce institutionalized corruption in Thailand, constantly citing acts of government, as though they have any real meaning. There are no bribes here, just set fees.

 

Having said that, I've been acquiring retirement extensions for the paltry sum of 1900 baht for 9 years and counting. It's quite possible that in the future I may be supporting or encouraging these expedited services that you dislike so much

I see so I'm only allowed one reply to the same quote? I have been acquiring retirement extensions for 10 years via an income affidavit from the US Embassy Bangkok but if that route is no longer available I will get an O-A from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the USA rather than paying a bribe.

 

And if the Thai person's rich foreign 'Papa' doesn't mind paying a bribe, that's up to him -- paying bribes is sometimes how rich papas got to be rich.

Edited December 5, 2018 by JLCrab

[sumrit]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

May I remind you this is in Thailand, a country where overthrowing elected governments is perfectly legal and you can even be praised and rewarded for it. If the whole department is in on it (expedited visa extension renewals) and profiting from it, who are you to worry about legalities? When people use words like "bribe" it suggests that a person is slipping an undisclosed amount of money, in secret, under the table to influence an official. In this case, they are asking and even hoping for it. They even have a set fee.

So can you please tell me how the fact that this is Thailand makes paying a bribe a legal act???

 

We all know that paying bribes unfortunately goes on here but that doesn't stop it being illegal. And the people on here either paying illegal bribes or encouraging others to pay illegal bribes in order to stay here only makes it worse for those of us who do things legally.

 

If, as you say, you are legal yourself I would have thought you would not want to encourage a bribe system that is likely to make the system more difficult for you to stay here yourself.  

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, JLCrab said:

You folks can dance around this all you like. If the Thai official receives more than the fee noted in the ministerial regulations for the IMM Act Section 35 procedure, which is 1900 Baht, then both the agent and the applicant for the extension are suborning a bribe.

Perhaps an option is to increase the fee for a retirement or marriage extension. Along with a simplification or removal of income verification or bank balance, the reason for the bribe. Immigration get the money, and paying an agent too becomes unnecessary. Lo and behold an elite visa. 

Except for the case of those physically struggling to spend time in immigration offices, where agents could be some legitimate use. 

[mikebell]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Only those from the US, 

The UK embassy has never done outreaches.

Thank you.  Barry Kenyon used to do the letters in Pattaya  (before he was arrested for playing BRIDGE.)

[JLCrab]

On 12/5/2018 at 6:03 PM, Olmate said:

On 12/5/2018 at 11:14 AM, JLCrab said:

When the current Immigration Act was written in 2522/1979, I would guess that the Section 35 waiver was included more as a humanitarians option available to senior officials so that persons of benefit to the Kingdom could remain on extension of stay despite their financial difficulties.

 

I do not think it likely was intended to be a bribe mill which is what it has now become.

You guess and suggest, I suggest your probably right. However your points of view, accurate or not won’t change anything in real terms.I suggest the whole scenario will only entrench the need for agents to assist with applications and guess you won’t agree.

I really don't care what others do as long as it's not putting lipstick on a pig. I know people from the oil patch who do million dollar deals on a handshake and they would choke rather than pay a bribe. I don't intend to do it it -- what others choose to do is up to them

[Olmate]

11 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I really don't care what others do as long as it's not putting lipstick on a pig. I know people from the oil patch who do million dollar deals on a handshake and they would choke rather than pay a bribe. I don't intend to do it it -- what others choose to do is up to them

Guess that’s very pertinent to the topic in your own special way! That’s the oil industry,not retired folk dealing with a troubling financial decision! And of course the oil companies have a wonderful reputation for concern for the third world.

[JLCrab]

It is pertinent in that some people choose to live their lives with an uncompromising moral code and some people don't.

Edited December 7, 2018 by JLCrab

[Peasandmash]

There is a lot of valuable information here. Someone looking to solve their problems may find help just by reading the postings.

 

I've decided just to put another million baht into my Thai Bank account just in case the requirement for savings on deposit goes up as is being reported here.

[Olmate]

38 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

It is pertinent in that some people choose to live their lives with an uncompromising moral code and some people don't.

I think I.ll shake hands with my IO next time I extend, according to you that will work out then... moral is moral does ? nope money is money does here! Whether that be to an agent, a bank or direct to IM.Moralising won’t help with the problem but is no less very noble!

[JLCrab]

No need to moralize when there are plenty of other alternatives to lining the pockets of corrupt officials. I learned the ropes of conduct in this part of the world 30 years ago from Communist Party members in PRChina compared to whom your local IO officer and maybe those at HQ as well are cream puffs.

[garyk]

42 minutes ago, Olmate said:

I think I.ll shake hands with my IO next time I extend, according to you that will work out then... moral is moral does ? nope money is money does here! Whether that be to an agent, a bank or direct to IM.Moralising won’t help with the problem but is no less very noble!

Depends on if you want to enable corrupt officials, special interest groups etc. End result is you get poorer, and they get richer. The problem I see now is when the banks get heavily involved, the prices will escalate just like the ATM fees over the years have. After the banks start getting a few billion baht deposited in a 3 months holding account. They will say, well if they can afford 800K they can afford 100K etc. 

It will be interesting to see what is going on here in the next few years. 

Of course just speculation on my part.

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by garyk