Presenting legal advice, PM May fans flames of Brexit rebellion

[webfact]

Presenting legal advice, PM May fans flames of Brexit rebellion

By Elizabeth Piper and Andrew MacAskill

 

FILE PHOTO: Anti-Brexit demonstrators wave flags outside the Houses of Parliament in London, Britain, November 13, 2018. REUTERS/Toby Melville/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May's government fought on Monday to defend its Brexitdeal by outlining the legal basis for parliament to support its plan to leave the European Union, but instead seemed to fan the flames of rebellion.

 

May faces an uphill struggle to secure parliament's approval in a vote on Dec. 11, when many Brexitsupporters and opponents alike say they will reject her vision for leaving the EU, Britain's biggest shift in foreign policy in over 40 years.

 

She has toured the country and television studios to try to sell her deal, but a move to present her government's legal advice to parliament seemed to backfire on Monday.

 

After a complaint presented by a group of cross-party lawmakers, parliamentary speaker John Bercow said he believed it could be argued that a contempt had been committed because of the failure to release the full legal advice.

 

The issue would be taken up again in parliament on Tuesday, Bercow said.

 

It was a threat that one government source shrugged off as just a "process row".

 

At a rowdy session of parliament, Attorney General Geoffrey Cox outlined the legal advice he had given to the government, including over a "backstop" arrangement to prevent the return of a hard border between Northern Ireland and EU member state Ireland if a future UK-EU trading deal is not reached in time.

 

"This deal ... is the best way I firmly believe of ensuring that we leave the European Union on March 29," Cox told parliament. "This is the deal that will ensure that happening in an orderly way with legal certainty."

 

But his words did little to soothe some of the deal's most caustic critics, where many Brexit supporters said the so-called backstop for Northern Ireland risked tying Britain into the EU's customs union indefinitely.

 

"The legal summary document is worse than we feared: the backstop customs union is indefinite, the UK would be a rule taker and the European Court (of Justice) is in charge of our destiny, rather than the sovereign UK parliament," former Brexit minister David Davis said. "This is not Brexit."

 

May's Northern Irish allies, the Democratic Unionist Party, which prop up her minority government, went further.

 

Deputy DUP leader Nigel Dodds said: "The overall context of this is ... a deeply unattractive, unsatisfactory presentation and he (Cox) needs to therefore, rather than recommend this agreement, recommend that it is rejected."

 

SHAKY VOTE

Many lawmakers were also angry over being shown what they described as a summary, not the full legal advice on May's Brexit deal which her government had seen.

 

The Labour Party and others, including the DUP, said that the vote is so important for the future of the country that lawmakers should be able to see any detailed legal warnings concerning parts of the withdrawal agreement.

 

"We have therefore been left with no option but to write to the speaker of the House of Commons to ask him to launch proceedings of contempt," Labour's Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer said.

 

The proceedings against the government for contempt of parliament could potentially result in one or more ministers being suspended or expelled from the House of Commons.

 

Cox said he could not disclose all the advice for fear of it being "contrary to the interests in the country", going so far as to shout at Labour lawmakers that it was no use "baying and shouting" when he was trying to guard the public interest.

 

"That is all and it is time they grew up and got real."

 

Monday's angry session of parliament did not bode well for the Dec. 11 vote, which will come at the end of five days of bruising debate starting on Tuesday.

 

If she loses, May could call for a second vote. But defeat would increase the chances of Britain leaving without a deal - a possibility that could mean chaos for Britain's economy and businesses - and put May under fierce pressure to resign.

 

Defeat could also make it more likely that Britain holds a second EU referendum, three years after voting narrowly to leave the bloc.

 

(Reporting by Elizabeth Piper and Andrew MacAskill; Additional reporting by Kate Holton and Elisabeth O'Leary; Editing by Mark Heinrich and Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-04

[dick dasterdly]

????

 

I particularly liked "Cox said he could not disclose all the advice for fear of it being "contrary to the interests in the country".

 

Who do they think they are kidding??!

[Basil B]

Obviously "Contempt of Parliament" is the most damming issue to face TM and may well be her down fall...

 

Watch this space anything anything can happen in the next few hours 

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Obviously "Contempt of Parliament" is the most damming issue to face TM and may well be her down fall...

 

Watch this space anything anything can happen in the next few hours 

So quote references work here! Must just be the main Brexit thread then

[melvinmelvin]

well done May,

you are chipping in to ensure you lose on the 11th

 

bah! hiding vital legal advice from parliament - what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

 

contempt? maybe

 

in Norway this would likely have resulted in a parliamentary Date Decision (yes - date as in the fruit)

a Date Decision is the sharpest level of government criticism, a fraction of an inch short of non confidence

 

(no, don't know why it is called date decision)

[Basil B]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So quote references work here! Must just be the main Brexit thread then

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46435128

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So quote references work here! Must just be the main Brexit thread then

works in the main thread now

 

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

works in the main thread now

 

MAYbe they gave it an enema?

[melvinmelvin]

21 minutes ago, nauseus said:

MAYbe they gave it an enema?

if so, the thread would be empty by now, no posts left  ....

 

[dunroaming]

I would be interested to know if anyone here thinks that May's deal is the right way to go now?  It does seem that leavers are the most critical of it and obviously the remainers don't want it so is anyone backing it?

 

It must be clear to May that the deal will be rejected next week but still she will not contemplate that.   Denial is one thing but this is ridiculous now. 

[nauseus]

Talking of legal advice, here's a new large bit of straw for Remainers to get excited about:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579 

[dunroaming]

44 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Talking of legal advice, here's a new large bit of straw for Remainers to get excited about:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46428579 

Quite a few bits of straw seem to be appearing as we get nearer to the vote next week. Certainly not enough to scupper Brexit but the seeds of doubt are multiplying by the hour.  

[lamyai3]

34 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Quite a few bits of straw seem to be appearing as we get nearer to the vote next week. Certainly not enough to scupper Brexit but the seeds of doubt are multiplying by the hour.  

This one's a biggie, it completely goes against the government's statements about what would happen in a no Brexit scenario. In Michael Gove's Saturday Mail article he was clear that there was no way the UK would be able to remain in Europe on the same terms as before, no chance of keeping the rebate etc. Harder by the day to see how they're going to be able to ignore calls for a second referendum. 

[AGareth2]

a total Cl Fk

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

MAYbe they gave it an enema?

Obscene 

[Prissana Pescud]

I find it totally astounding that everyone is supposed to support Ms May when the small print of the deal is a secret, not fit for public viewing.

May needs to resign now and be investigated for lying to parliament, lying to her own party and especially - lying to the British public. Contemp at its very worst.

[SheungWan]

20 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I find it totally astounding that everyone is supposed to support Ms May when the small print of the deal is a secret, not fit for public viewing.

May needs to resign now and be investigated for lying to parliament, lying to her own party and especially - lying to the British public. Contemp at its very worst.

The Prissy Mock Rage Team is in town!

[Prissana Pescud]

23 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The Prissy Mock Rage Team is in town!

Yes well I guess that wherever you are now or from, secrecy in democracy and the parliament and lying to parliament (if you have one) is all part of your accepted rule of law.

British democracy is not Russia.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Yes well I guess that wherever you are now or from, secrecy in democracy and the parliament and lying to parliament (if you have one) is all part of your accepted rule of law.

British democracy is not Russia.

 

Agree with you. May tried to subvert parliamentary process by misusing the Royal Decree, taking it right to the Supreme Court because she never ever wanted to have her 'deal" subject to parliament and public scrutiny. She tried to get approval for her cabinet to approve it. She isn't fit to be in parliament as she's not honoring her oaths or respecting British democracy and parliamentary process. 

 

Sad, but an out an out liar, hypocrite and conceited person.

[lamyai3]

Just announced, government ministers voted as having been in contempt of Parliament. They've said that they'll now publish the full legal advice. 

[Basil B]

9 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Just announced, government ministers voted as having been in contempt of Parliament. They've said that they'll now publish the full legal advice. 

And lets see what was left out?

 

Wonder when they will publish it, my guess is in 21 days time and hope no one notices it...

[lamyai3]

8 minutes ago, Basil B said:

And lets see what was left out?

 

Wonder when they will publish it, my guess is in 21 days time and hope no one notices it...

Tomorrow, full legal advice. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694

[Basil B]

A bad day for TM, first she tried to suppress the ECJ ruling on rescinding Article 50 then she ignores an insruction from the house to disclose in full the legal advise the ministers has been given, and the day is not over yet... 

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

Tomorrow. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694

Me think she will not have anything to worry about before tomorrow dawns...

[Ulic]

This deal is the worst possible. Leave in name only with no say just pay. "Taxation without representation is tyranny" Stay, or hard Brexit. That is the choice. The people have already voted but it seems everything is still up in the air. 

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Ulic said:

This deal is the worst possible. Leave in name only with no say just pay. "Taxation without representation is tyranny" Stay, or hard Brexit. That is the choice. The people have already voted but it seems everything is still up in the air. 

Actually no. There are several flavoured choices. It just suits the Hard Brexiteers to present as two.

[SheungWan]

15 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

????

 

I particularly liked "Cox said he could not disclose all the advice for fear of it being "contrary to the interests in the country".

 

Who do they think they are kidding??!

Well certainly the Hard Brexiteers who never wanted Parliamentary scrutiny in the first place.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The Prissy Mock Rage Team is in town!

Except the government has now been found in contempt of Parliament.

 

Nothing prissy or mock rage about that.

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Except the government has now been found in contempt of Parliament.

Nothing prissy or mock rage about that.

Disagree. The Government did not want to release its legal advice, Parliament disagreed and used a Parliamentary device/motion to rein Government in. No need for the mock prissy rage more redolent of a Noh Theatre actor.

[evadgib]

The 27 must be elated that we're the first to prod our way through this calamatous minefield, rendering it so much easier for whoever is next.