*sigh* Landlord wants to keep the deposit, same old same old

[JoshBe]

Hey guys, here is a quick summary of what happened (I want to spare you a wall of text):
 

- Recently moved out of a rented condo in Bangkok

- When moving some furniture we found laminate floor tiles damaged by water (next to the bathroom wall)

- The water must've come from the bathtub which is located on the opposite side of this wall (probably a leak around the drain pipes)

- Landlord wants to keep deposit (20k) for repairs

 

Reading other threads in this forum about similar issues, I know that I can probably wave the deposit goodbye. However I don't want to go down without a fight and I want to give the landlord as much of a hard time as I can, hoping she might buckle at some point. 

 

1) Unfortunately the lease agreement I have signed doesn't mention anything about repairs. As far as I know, a tenant doesn't have to pay for damage which was not caused by him/her. Is there a law on the books which I could refer to when replying to the landlord?

2) My second course of action would be to call the Consumer Protection Board. Maybe a letter or a call from a government agency might change the landlord's mind?

 

3) I'm also thinking of asking a lawyer to write a 'threatening' letter, if I can find a lawyer that won't charge me an arm and a leg. (any suggestions?)

Bonus question: I'm renting another condo now and I want to avoid running into the same issue again (seems fairly common in LoS). What can I do? Should I photograph every nook and cranny of the new condo? 

 

I hope you guys can help me out. Many thanks.

[baansgr]

Letter from a. Lawyer will be at least 5k.if not more.  Laminate is 300 a pack.... Do it yourself 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

4 minutes ago, JoshBe said:

Should I photograph every nook and cranny of the new condo? 

Id say thats a pretty good starting point. 

 

Does the landlord know that the damages arent your fault?

[darksidedog]

Getting a deposit back here is not at all easy. I have lost most of mine, even when leaving the house in better condition than when taking it over. I have found that the best way to avoid the problem, which has very limited legal options worth pursuing, is to insist on talking to the previous tenant before signing. If they got their money back, I will sign the lease. If they didn't I won't take the house and make a point of telling the prospective lessor exactly why.

[vinegarbase]

If she wants to steal your deposit then maybe you have license to make some more damage. You are paying for it to be fixed anyways, have a big party and throw things around. 

 

Aside, I would just get a local contractor to fix it and then give her the bill and have her pay you back the difference. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by vinegarbase

[JoshBe]

I should also mention that it has been more than a month since I've moved out of this condo so it's too late for DIY repairs or throwing parties ????

The landlord only informed me now about keeping the deposit, i.e. she is keeping it for more than 30 days without notice. Is this something I can use against her? Is there something like a small claims court in Thailand? 

 

11 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

Id say thats a pretty good starting point. 

 

I've been a bit more than a month in the new condo. Is it too late for the photos? How should I document them anyway? I assume the landlord needs to acknowledge these photos in some form (signature?). So far I have sent him some photos of damages via LINE chat... not sure if this would hold up in a court of law ????

 

[Vacuum]

Plumbing issues are the landlords problem. Next time don't pay the rent for a month or two, before checking out.

[KneeDeep]

Does your landlord have five or more properties being rented out in total(they don't need to be at the same location); http://thailandproperty.news/new-rental-law-start-may-1

 

 

 

[JHolmesJr]

Or get your money's worth....create about 30K worth of small damage before you move out.

[KneeDeep]

2 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Or get your money's worth....create about 30K worth of small damage before you move out.

 

Already moved out a month ago....

[JoshBe]

9 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Plumbing issues are the landlords problem. Next time don't pay the rent for a month or two, before checking out.

 

That's an interesting strategy, but how could I get away with not paying 2 months rent? I could squeeze out 1 month I guess with some excuses (sorry my bank account got closed, I'm on a business trip, etc etc) but 2 months might be tough without finding a padlock in front of my door at some point.

[JHolmesJr]

Its a wise move to photograph every inch of your new rental house, documenting the condition prior to move in.

 

AND LODGE THEM WITH THE LANDORD SO HE NOWS HE CANT MAKE FALSE CLAIMS.

 

And do the same thing after you move out. 

 

 

[JoshBe]

8 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

Does your landlord have five or more properties being rented out in total(they don't need to be at the same location); http://thailandproperty.news/new-rental-law-start-may-1

 

 

 

As far as I know she only owns one condo. 

[ThreeEyedRaven]

26 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

Does your landlord have five or more properties being rented out in total(they don't need to be at the same location); http://thailandproperty.news/new-rental-law-start-may-1

 

 

 

This is all very well, but if you have to go to court, it is going to cost a lot more in legal fees than the money tied up in the deposit. The owner is likely to fabricate evidence, and even if you do win, you still have to possibly go to court again to actually get the money. which is highly unlikely to include costs. These people know you will lose more money by chasing them than you will get back, which is why they keep deposits with impunity. Chances are without the small floor damage, he intended keeping it anyway. 

[Vacuum]

1 minute ago, JoshBe said:

 

That's an interesting strategy, but how could I get away with not paying 2 months rent? I could squeeze out 1 month I guess with some excuses (sorry my bank account got closed, I'm on a business trip, etc etc) but 2 months might be tough without finding a padlock in front of my door at some point.

It depends on your rent and deposit. Just tell the landlord after the first month that she/he already have got the money from your deposit.

[KneeDeep]

1 minute ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

This is all very well, but it is going to cost a lot more in legal fees than the money tied up in the deposit. The owner is likely to fabricate evidence, and even if you do win, you still have to possibly go to court again to actually get the money. which is highly unlikely to include costs. These people know you will lose more money by chasing them than you will get back, which is why they keep deposits with impunity. Chances are without the small floor damage, he intended keeping it anyway. 

 

It's a she and that's a lot of conjecture on your part.

I only needed make mention that I was clear about the new laws and expected my land person to stick to them. They tried to wriggle, but soon after came to my way of thinking.

 

But if she has just one property, no point in quoting the law in this case anyway.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, JoshBe said:

 

That's an interesting strategy, but how could I get away with not paying 2 months rent? I could squeeze out 1 month I guess with some excuses (sorry my bank account got closed, I'm on a business trip, etc etc) but 2 months might be tough without finding a padlock in front of my door at some point.

 But be careful, I'm aware of a couple of cases where the tenant didn't pay the rent on time and suddenly came home to find a new lock on the door, and a note saying 'door stays locked until rent is up to date, and new lock will appear again if 1 day overdue'.

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by scorecard

[catman20]

4 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Or get your money's worth....create about 30K worth of small damage before you move out.

not a good idea. me thinks

[Caine]

Let her keep the deposit, but make sure much more that 20k damage is do before you leave. Simple

[Ctkong]

It is well known that many Thai owners would find some excuses not to pay back the deposit.one way is to work the deposit amount into the total lease whenever you budget your rental amount. So a 12 months rental is actually 13 months payment.. a 24 months rental is 25 months payment. This way of thinking would give you a lesser headache dealing with Thais. 

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

This is all very well, but if you have to go to court, it is going to cost a lot more in legal fees than the money tied up in the deposit. The owner is likely to fabricate evidence, and even if you do win, you still have to possibly go to court again to actually get the money. which is highly unlikely to include costs. These people know you will lose more money by chasing them than you will get back, which is why they keep deposits with impunity. Chances are without the small floor damage, he intended keeping it anyway. 

Pity the landlord is a she, or a word with the motorbike taxi boys would be in order.

[champers]

This is not the first thread I have seen on here about lost deposits. Previously, a tenant was advised to ask the landlord if they paid tax on their rental income. Many do not declare this income, so do not pay the tax. If discovered they would face a fine and a large back payment of tax.

There is a government department you could call to report / check your landlord's tax payments, but I don't recall which one. Maybe this post will jog someone's memory.

[johnmcc6]

Most who won't give it back have already spent it. Not many Thais can keep few thousand baht just sitting there.

[mike324]

3 minutes ago, champers said:

This is not the first thread I have seen on here about lost deposits. Previously, a tenant was advised to ask the landlord if they paid tax on their rental income. Many do not declare this income, so do not pay the tax. If discovered they would face a fine and a large back payment of tax.

There is a government department you could call to report / check your landlord's tax payments, but I don't recall which one. Maybe this post will jog someone's memory.

I suppose thats one way to get back at the landlord, but the department might not even take up the case. Other ways would be to report the landlord to immigration office for not registering the guests.

 

On the other hand, I had to make repairs costing more than 30,000 baht on wood flooring when my tenant move out because they did not tell me there is a water leakage from the balcony which damaged the wood flooring, it was all black! Whats worse is that the new wood flooring is a different color, so it doesn't look all that great as well. So thats something to think about on owners side.

[NoshowJones]

37 minutes ago, catman20 said:

not a good idea. me thinks

If someone does you a bad turn, you get your'e revenge, there are always ways.

[BangkokTony]

Maybe the landlady is paying tax on her renting the condo out to you.
But maybe she is not, so just mention you will report to the tax authorities about your rental.
Maybe she will capitulate.

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[connda]

We never clean or repair apartments we have rented anymore.  Virtually all landlords will rip you off. So assume you can damage your apartment up to your damage deposit and then walk away.  That's how you play the game.

[davidst01]

5 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Plumbing issues are the landlords problem. Next time don't pay the rent for a month or two, before checking out.

this is exactly what we have done a few times. Works a dream. We leave a few thousand to cover bills in that deposit amount. but we draw down most of the rent out of the deposit. 

[HHTel]

It's not just here that landlords will find excuses not to return your deposit.

I remember in the UK when renting a property for a year.  Inventory check and current damage was done in around an hour with one person from the agency.  When checking out, the exit inspection was done by 3 people taking a half a day and going through everything with a fine tooth comb.  Lo and behold, a charge was forthcoming.  Only when I pointed out the difference between the two inspections and threatened legal action was the charge mysteriously negated.

 

[ArickChaiyaphum]

Did you minus 5 percent withholding tax on your rent.  Tell them thus mention rental income tax. See if that get their attention. You are equally responsible for their tax on rental income it should be deducted from your monthly rent before it’s handed over to the landlord either by you or the agent check that it has been done!

Edited December 7, 2018 by ArickChaiyaphum