*sigh* Landlord wants to keep the deposit, same old same old

[ArickChaiyaphum]

1 hour ago, champers said:

This is not the first thread I have seen on here about lost deposits. Previously, a tenant was advised to ask the landlord if they paid tax on their rental income. Many do not declare this income, so do not pay the tax. If discovered they would face a fine and a large back payment of tax.

There is a government department you could call to report / check your landlord's tax payments, but I don't recall which one. Maybe this post will jog someone's memory.

Just walk into the tax department but you would need their tax ID number 

[observer90210]

Which is why it can be a good idea to go for purchasing on leasehold for 30 years, renewable....avoids all the landlord cheats who try to scam locals and foreigners..

[Lacessit]

I would try to find a property where a falang is the landlord, or alternatively has a financial interest in the property. Perhaps they are more reasonable in understanding tenants.

I pay my rent to a falang landlord 3 months in advance, with no security deposit. That's worked for both of us for 9 years now.

[shaurene]

For a start, inspect the property with the landlord. And take as many pictures as you can that show the date and time. G t your landlord to sign and confirm the pictures are acceptable befor you move in and hand out the deposit.

it happens all the time. Landlords know you will not go to a lawyer as it cost to much. You are like all the rest, worry about the cost. 

Inrented a condo in North Jomtien from an American guy. My wife and I left it spotless. He came around on the morning we were leaving and inspected it all over, l lead him around every where. He pulled the sheets down fromnthe matteres to check for stains, all accepted was clear.

1 month later he email me to say there was a stain on the matteres, we had my wife's grand son 18 months with us. He said pee stains there. I said you inspected the room and signed the form it was all ok. You come back 1 month later to say a pee stain there. I know the little guy never slept in the bed, he had his own little mattress we brought to sleep on. I told him he inspected and was happy. He went wild. End of story. When he signed to deposit doc he gave our deposit back. 

[Odysseus123]

14 minutes ago, shaurene said:

For a start, inspect the property with the landlord. And take as many pictures as you can that show the date and time. G t your landlord to sign and confirm the pictures are acceptable befor you move in and hand out the deposit.

it happens all the time. Landlords know you will not go to a lawyer as it cost to much. You are like all the rest, worry about the cost. 

Inrented a condo in North Jomtien from an American guy. My wife and I left it spotless. He came around on the morning we were leaving and inspected it all over, l lead him around every where. He pulled the sheets down fromnthe matteres to check for stains, all accepted was clear.

1 month later he email me to say there was a stain on the matteres, we had my wife's grand son 18 months with us. He said pee stains there. I said you inspected the room and signed the form it was all ok. You come back 1 month later to say a pee stain there. I know the little guy never slept in the bed, he had his own little mattress we brought to sleep on. I told him he inspected and was happy. He went wild. End of story. When he signed to deposit doc he gave our deposit back. 

Yes.An absolute farce.They are utter thieves.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, davidst01 said:

this is exactly what we have done a few times. Works a dream. We leave a few thousand to cover bills in that deposit amount. but we draw down most of the rent out of the deposit. 

But be careful, I'm aware of a couple of cases where the tenant didn't pay the rent on time and suddenly came home to find a new lock on the door, and a note saying 'door stays locked until rent is up to date, and new lock will appear again if 1 day overdue'.

[madmen]

But be careful, I'm aware of a couple of cases where the tenant didn't pay the rent on time and suddenly came home to find a new lock on the door, and a note saying 'door stays locked until rent is up to date, and new lock will appear again if 1 day overdue'.

Water will go first. Costs nothing

[madmen]

Most who won't give it back have already spent it. Not many Thais can keep few thousand baht just sitting there.

Exactly. The minute it's handed over it is spent
The joys of renting. First thing I did 13 years ago was buy a big one on lower Sukhumvit. Decked it out in top class furniture.. White goods.. mattress etc

Be the master of your domain or let thai landlords shaft and dictate to you [emoji26]

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, madmen said:

20 minutes ago, scorecard said:

But be careful, I'm aware of a couple of cases where the tenant didn't pay the rent on time and suddenly came home to find a new lock on the door, and a note saying 'door stays locked until rent is up to date, and new lock will appear again if 1 day overdue'.

Water will go first. Costs nothing

Sure. One example that I'm aware of the tenant was working from home and had all his work documents, equipment etc in his apartment (it was all the property of the company he worked for).

 

He had no choice but to pay the overdue rent immediately so there was no slow down / stoppage of his work output.

 

Another one, the tenant went out to eat locally with enough cash in his pocket, left his wallet including his main cash, ID card, credit cards, work security pass card etc., in the apartment, and he needed his work ID card to pass through the work security door and refresh his desktop etc.

 

In this case the guys has a wife and 2 kids, wife also left her purse in the apartment. She had to miss work the next day because she couldn't get past her work security door.  the 2 kids missed school because they had no school books, homework etc., to take to school. They walked to a friends apartment (no taxi, because no money) to sleep. They borrowed cash to get the rent payment back in order - they couldn't go to their bank and withdraw cash, bankbook and ID card locked inside the apartment.  

 

 

[bbi1]

7 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

Does your landlord have five or more properties being rented out in total(they don't need to be at the same location); http://thailandproperty.news/new-rental-law-start-may-1

 

 

 

Point No. 4 in interesting: 

4. Any security deposit of more than one-month’s rental fee;

 

Yet agents and landlords are still asking for 2 month's rental fee as a security bond!

[Scouse123]

7 hours ago, JoshBe said:

 

As far as I know she only owns one condo. 

 

Joshbe,

 

Getting into an argument of You said, she said will get nowhere.

 

I would get a price and a tradesman in to fix it BUT speak to her beforehand and tell her you do not feel it is your responsibility as it is not wilful damage from the occupier, but substandard plumbing in the first place.

 

See how she feels about that and make her understand that her that her idea of keeping 20K is both unreasonable and unfair as well as illegal.

 

Unfortunately, this is a very common practice to steal deposits and is done by both Thai and Foreign landlords.

 

Some guys have posted the law regarding rental contract on here, see if you can get a copy of this in Thai and English and mark the relevant areas and give it to her. Tell her in a polite way, you are not letting this go and have been a good tenant and you want to leave on good terms but you cannot be treated unfairly, in plain English (cheated).

 

All these are cheaper and better than getting a useless lawyer for a small job like this.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Scouse123

[madmen]

Point No. 4 in interesting: 

4. Any security deposit of more than one-month’s rental fee;

 

Yet agents and landlords are still asking for 2 month's rental fee as a security bond!

That's for 5 or more condo ownership.

If you own 4 nothing stopping landlord asking 3 months deposit. More deposit bigger theft

[Scouse123]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

3

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Scouse123

[robpuff]

Addled felon scams with impunity!  This is my first experience with such dishonorable behavior.  My landlord was arrested and convicted of drug dealing. He refused to comply with May 1st law changes and we debated for two months. He sent an armed gunman to the agent I had been using who then fled the country as well. From afar this landlord, living in Philippines because he is unable to return to Thailand or UK and unable to legally do business here or have a bank account uses cut outs. Anyway, no surprise he has not responded to my requests for return of 80K deposit. Went to the police, no help, even though this landlord holds more than 300 properties in Thailand. Hired a lawyer to provide advice, 5K no help. Needless to say, I have been more careful in registering the new lease with attorney. This man and his "wife" are facing more court challenges but there is no way to retaliate. Who asks their landlord if they are addicted to ICE when taking an apartment? It never crossed my mind. 

[robpuff]

New landlord charges 5b per unit for electricity when Jan posted max is 3.6

Two months deposit.

Can't rent without comp-lying to their demands...

No Thai Government oversight office that I could find.

[Jonathan Swift]

9 hours ago, baansgr said:

Letter from a. Lawyer will be at least 5k.if not more.  Laminate is 300 a pack.... Do it yourself 

I'm a little bit crooked when it comes to fighting equal crooked. I would create a realistic looking attorney's letter, use a PO box you've rented as a mailing address, send it out and see what happens. Get some good stationery and practice with some common attorney style business fonts. Get hold of some examples. For that you will need some help from an educated Thai person. Your language and phrasing will need to be just right. I've done such things with good results in the US, even managed to bluff such corporations as AT&T and, yes, even the mighty Google inc. Google actually called me after I sent them a realistic legal complaint and lawsuit summons, my issue was youtube blocking my account. I also collected $1200 US from AN ATTORNEY who ran a chrome shop, for sending me chrome wheels that rusted out in only 6 months. My bluff? He is in another state and I couldn't really force anything because of jurisdiction. You have to make your opponent think you have bigger guns than they have, and that it will be a bigger problem for them than the money is worth. Psychology could be your biggest weapon. What have you got to lose? BTW I am in fact well educated in US law and have sued and won many times against bad guys, even helped people collect their security. If I knew as much about Thai law I would help you, but I don't know squat. 

[Jonathan Swift]

You might try getting Thai Visa or some other local publication to write a story about it. It might embarrass the landlord enough to get him to comply, you know, losing face, being made out to be a crook taking advantage of a low income person. What have you got to lose? Public shaming can be a powerful tool.

[Benmart]

10 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Or get your money's worth....create about 30K worth of small damage before you move out.

Certainly glad I don't know you.

[chicowoodduck]

In my 15+ years renting in and around BKK it is always a crap shoot come deposit refund time....always something comes up....it is the Thai way of doing business.....lol.....????

[chicowoodduck]

8 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

You might try getting Thai Visa or some other local publication to write a story about it. It might embarrass the landlord enough to get him to comply, you know, losing face, being made out to be a crook taking advantage of a low income person. What have you got to lose? Public shaming can be a powerful tool.

Now there is a lawsuit in the waiting going that route.....????

[rumak]

18 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Getting a deposit back here is not at all easy. I have lost most of mine, even when leaving the house in better condition than when taking it over. I have found that the best way to avoid the problem, which has very limited legal options worth pursuing, is to insist on talking to the previous tenant before signing. If they got their money back, I will sign the lease. If they didn't I won't take the house and make a point of telling the prospective lessor exactly why.

I think you make a good point.   Actually getting ones deposit back from us  is quite easy. Maybe we are an exception, i am not sure what the figures are.  I will say that we try to choose our tenants VERY carefully as

some tenants are not the angels they appear to be when applying.  Good idea you have :  we should ask to talk to their last Landlord !  (actually, i think getting references is a western thing, no ? )  If you read some of the posts from renters here it is obvious (to us landlords) that there are many I would not rent to.  Just like in a relationship....there are always two conflicting stories about whose fault it was.

[catman20]

13 hours ago, possum1931 said:

If someone does you a bad turn, you get your'e revenge, there are always ways.

yes sure but not the way the previous post said.

[Katia]

Quote

Unfortunately the lease agreement I have signed doesn't mention anything about repairs. As far as I know, a tenant doesn't have to pay for damage which was not caused by him/her.

 

Here's what they're going to say, though: the damage was caused by your negligence.  Had you caught the leak right away and called them to fix it right away, there wouldn't be damage created by standing/and or repeated water soaking into the floor.  It's legit.  My former partner used to rent his house... had a lot of mold to clean out of the basement (pretty much ripped the basement down to concrete, had to use hazmat cleanup company to do so it was so bad) because there was a major leak (like, standing water on the floor) the tenants didn't bother to tell anyone about.  Not their fault there was a leak, but their fault they didn't let someone know about it so it could be repaired before damage was done.

 

 

18 hours ago, JoshBe said:

 

That's an interesting strategy, but how could I get away with not paying 2 months rent? I could squeeze out 1 month I guess with some excuses (sorry my bank account got closed, I'm on a business trip, etc etc) but 2 months might be tough without finding a padlock in front of my door at some point.

In the U.S., the advice is normally not that you don't pay it-- you put it in escrow until such time as the repairs have been completed.  This shows you're making a good-faith effort rather than just not paying rent.  How it would work in Thailand, however, I haven't a clue.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Katia

[quandow]

I have lived overseas since 2002. I have ALWAYS considered any security deposit I put down as money gone. I've never been disappointed.

[Lacessit]

11 hours ago, robpuff said:

New landlord charges 5b per unit for electricity when Jan posted max is 3.6

Two months deposit.

Can't rent without comp-lying to their demands...

No Thai Government oversight office that I could find.

Perhaps consider moving to Chiang Mai. Landlords here are falling over themselves to rent to good tenants. There's a glut of condo apartments and houses here. My electricity bill comes directly from the PEA.

One woman in my condo can only rent her rooms out on a monthly basis in high season. They are empty in low season, because the word has got around she's a security deposit thief, so no-one will rent long-term.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, catman20 said:

yes sure but not the way the previous post said.

Any way at all. just as long as no innocent person gets hurt.

[rumak]

3 hours ago, quandow said:

I have lived overseas since 2002. I have ALWAYS considered any security deposit I put down as money gone. I've never been disappointed.

please don't rent from us.  you are sure to be disappointed.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps consider moving to Chiang Mai. Landlords here are falling over themselves to rent to good tenants. There's a glut of condo apartments and houses here. My electricity bill comes directly from the PEA.

One woman in my condo can only rent her rooms out on a monthly basis in high season. They are empty in low season, because the word has got around she's a security deposit thief, so no-one will rent long-term.

well, i have tried but can not manage to fall over myself.  On the other hand,  you are correct that it is

indeed very hard to find good tenants.  if you know of one please let me know.....they are more than welcome to ask our tenants if we are good landlords  ????

[balo]

23 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Its a wise move to photograph every inch of your new rental house, documenting the condition prior to move in.

Exactly what I did when I moved in , I also sent the pictures to my agent and if any discussions I can just show them the pictures. 

[Bundooman]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 12:17 PM, KneeDeep said:

 

Already moved out a month ago....

Maybe inform her that you are contacting the Inland Revenue people, (or whatever it's called here), and tell her you are checking whether she is/or has been paying tax on your rent, including your deposit. Tell her you are contacting the police, all relevant agencies and that you will have her property blacklisted - then tell her your lawyer is a red-hot wizard from Bangkok. 

 

It might put the fear of god into her, and it might not. But hey - you won't be going out without a fight....