U.S. federal judge rules Obamacare unconstitutional

[wwest5829]

3 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Checks and balances is what I think I often hear when judges make ruling concerning government actions.

  This time I think people will start to see the problem with judges having so much power. 

  It is nice to use against those you do not like but not so rosy with you get your fingers slapped.

Must be what the Americans want. There are 21 state governments, and by extension there elected leaders, who have brought this court case forward supported the national government. Sorry to have to recognize that Americans are alone among developed nations not demanding a national healthcare program for all citizens. 

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Republicans will come to regret the day they branded the ACA as ‘Obamacare’.

 

It is hugely popular and will lead America along the path to universal health care.

I will maintain my hope that this will bring a backlash and add to calls for a national healthcare program but unless Americans take to the streets it would have to wait until the next elections when another 1/3 of the Senate is up for election.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Most Americans disagree with you.

 

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It is hugely popular and will lead America along the path to universal health care.

 

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

I guess if you want to completely decimate the Republican Party then, by all means, proceed.

 

Like, where do you people get this information? Its probably one of the single biggest flops in recent memory that takes care of "some" americans at the extreme cost to "others". 

 

https://www.kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?aRange=all&response=Favorable&total

[howbri]

Like everything else they touch, the government "health care" is a disaster and unaffordable. Free market has ALWAYS given us great health care until the government puts their sticky fingers into it.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

 

 

Like, where do you people get this information? Its probably one of the single biggest flops in recent memory that takes care of "some" americans at the extreme cost to "others". 

 

https://www.kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?aRange=all&response=Favorable&total

Well according to your graph, it's popularity has increased since Trump's election and now more than 50% (that's a majority) favour it.

 

What kind of glasses were you wearing when you looked at the graph? Were they rose tinted?

[Jingthing]

I will maintain my hope that this will bring a backlash and add to calls for a national healthcare program but unless Americans take to the streets it would have to wait until the next elections when another 1/3 of the Senate is up for election.

They won't though. Because most working adults have coverage through employers and those over 65 lose the immediacy of this struggle because they get Medicare. I don't see any magic bullets for rapid transition to a nationalized health system even if someone like Bernie Sanders becomes president. Sure fight for it but don't expect any miracles.

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[UncleTouchyFingers]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

What kind of glasses were you wearing when you looked at the graph? Were they rose tinted?

 

You think a small uptick at the end pushing it over the 50% percent mark (for what, barely the third time in 8 years) equals a "majority" and "hugely popular" that will "decimate the republican party"?

 

 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

All conservatives want is fairness. 

 

My insurance was about $250 before obamacare through my employer at the time for stellar insurance. 

 

My insurance is now over $1300 a month through healthcare.gov. 

 

Liberals, if you think this is fair - I cant help you, and I wont.

 

Health insurance in the United states for millions and millions and millions of Americans is more than a first time homebuyers mortgage. 

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

a change in tax law last year eliminating a penalty for not having health insurance invalidated the entire Obamacare law.

Such a nexus only applies if removal of a monetary penalty was the only consequence.

It's not.

If a monetary penalty for violation of a traffic law is removed, the law still remains.

U.S. Congressional action is required to repeal ACA which as previously pointed out was ruled by the Supreme Court as constitutional. In 2017 and 2018 the majority Republican congressmen in both the Senate and House failed. With the Democrats in control of the House in 2019, there will be no bill to appeal ACA.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

All conservatives want is fairness. 

 

My insurance was about $250 before obamacare through my employer at the time for stellar insurance. 

 

My insurance is now over $1300 a month through healthcare.gov. 

 

Liberals, if you think this is fair - I cant help you, and I wont.

 

Health insurance in the United states for millions and millions and millions of Americans is more than a first time homebuyers mortgage. 

You need to talk to a few Europeans and learn from what they tell you.

[Chomper Higgot]

Research paid for by those raging communists, the Kosch brothers:

 

https://thinkprogress.org/mercatis-medicare-for-all-study-0a8681353316/

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

You think a small uptick at the end pushing it over the 50% percent mark (for what, barely the third time in 8 years) equals a "majority" and "hugely popular" that will "decimate the republican party"?

 

 

It took the fear of losing it to push it over the 50% mark.

As for decimating the Republican party? Absolutely. How do you think those poor rural white people in West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennesse, Alabama etc who were getting Medicaid are going to feel when it gets cut off? Do you think they're going to blame Democrats for that and thank Republicans? And all those people with pre-existing conditions who can no longer get insurance coverage? Do you think they're going to thank the Republicans and blame the Democrats?

[UncleTouchyFingers]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You need to talk to a few Europeans and learn from what they tell you.

 

What does that have to do with Obamacare and Americans. Obamacare is the polar opposite of single payer and yet you are going through the thread mocking posts with smileys that don't support Obamacare. And the weird part is that most people on here aren't even Americans, and the Americans that are opining wont ever have to participate. 

[UncleTouchyFingers]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

It took the fear of losing it to push it over the 50% mark.

No, it took not having a viable & legitimate replacement to push it over that mark, and that is a major issue that still pisses me off about Trumps administration to this day. 

 

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

 

As for decimating the Republican party? Absolutely. How do you think those poor rural white people in West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennesse, Alabama etc who were getting Medicaid are going to feel when it gets cut off? Do you think they're going to blame Democrats for that and thank Republicans? And all those people with pre-existing conditions who can no longer get insurance coverage? Do you think they're going to thank the Republicans and blame the Democrats?

 

You think medicaid = Obamacare? 

 

The President and Republicans are all in on keeping pre-existing conditions. 

[gk10002000]

From my perspective Obamacare absolutely sucked.  My catastrophic coverage was cheap and all that I needed.  I don't care about some deductibles. I have no chronic issues.  I only wanted coverage for big ticket items.  I was a contractor and most of my agencies did not have plans for temporary workers such as me (I am an engineer) so I had good Florida Blue Cross Blue Shield.  What was costing me $126/month a few years ago, quickly doubled and doubled again and more, and today, the cheapest, worst bronze plan would cost me $850/month.  My passive income alone puts me above the 43K or whatever threshold to get the subsidies.   I am 61 male non smoker, zero health issues.  So neglecting all the other things the ACA allegedly does, it made me decide to take a direct job for a company that only costs me $84/month. 

[jmd8800]

4 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

It should never have been passed in the first place. 

Correct we should have had Medicare for All.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

Just now, gk10002000 said:

From my perspective Obamacare absolutely sucked.  My catastrophic coverage was cheap and all that I needed.  I don't care about some deductibles. I have no chronic issues.  I only wanted coverage for big ticket items.  I was a contractor and most of my agencies did not have plans for temporary workers such as me (I am an engineer) so I had good Florida Blue Cross Blue Shield.  What was costing me $126/month a few years ago, quickly doubled and doubled again and more, and today, the cheapest, worst bronze plan would cost me $850/month.  My passive income alone puts me above the 43K or whatever threshold to get the subsidies.   I am 61 male non smoker, zero health issues.  So neglecting all the other things the ACA allegedly does, it made me decide to take a direct job for a company that only costs me $84/month. 

 

The libs in this thread will not care at all about your personal experience nor about how much you have to pay, and I too am in the same boat with going back to an Employer that provides subsidized insurance plans instead of being freelance. 

 

Im married and the total household income threshold was a measly $68,000/year for any assistance. 

 

 

[Spidey]

49 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

You think a small uptick at the end pushing it over the 50% percent mark (for what, barely the third time in 8 years) equals a "majority" and "hugely popular" that will "decimate the republican party"?

 

 

Well when I was taught mathematics at school, more than 50% = majority and certainly doesn't equate to "one of the single biggest flops in history". That title has Trumps presidency written all over it.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Spidey

[Jingthing]

Correct we should have had Medicare for All.

Yes and at the time it barely passed a Medicare for all bill wouldn't have had any chance at all. So back to reality.

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[Jingthing]

From my perspective Obamacare absolutely sucked.  My catastrophic coverage was cheap and all that I needed.  I don't care about some deductibles. I have no chronic issues.  I only wanted coverage for big ticket items.  I was a contractor and most of my agencies did not have plans for temporary workers such as me (I am an engineer) so I had good Florida Blue Cross Blue Shield.  What was costing me $126/month a few years ago, quickly doubled and doubled again and more, and today, the cheapest, worst bronze plan would cost me $850/month.  My passive income alone puts me above the 43K or whatever threshold to get the subsidies.   I am 61 male non smoker, zero health issues.  So neglecting all the other things the ACA allegedly does, it made me decide to take a direct job for a company that only costs me $84/month. 

Yes that was a sucky situation for a minority of Americans but fixes for that could have been addressed as opposed to throwing the whole thing down the toilet which the Individual-1 fans are doing. Again most working adults get coverage from employers.

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[UncleTouchyFingers]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes that was a sucky situation for a minority of Americans but fixes for that could have been addressed as opposed to throwing the whole thing down the toilet which the Individual-1 fans are doing. Again most working adults get coverage from employers.

Notice how the liberal implies insignificance with the term "minority of Americans" even though historically the Obamacare lovers have been the actual minority. 

 

And how out of touch he is thinking that since "most working americans get coverage from employers" that they somehow have weathered the storm and haven't been affected. Working Americans get coverage through employers but still have to pay for it, and they have been grossly affected as well. Across the board if you have had insurance, weather private or through your employer, your premiums have spiked in the extreme. 

 

Libs will downplay this, gloss over it, and ignore it but the fact remains - it was chit to begin with and its chit still today. 

[bristolboy]

44 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

You think medicaid = Obamacare? 

 

The President and Republicans are all in on keeping pre-existing conditions. 

The expanded Medicaid program for which the Feds pay 90 percent of expenses absolutely is part of Obamacare. That's the program that has massively expanded coverage in states like West Virginia. And it will disappear if the Supreme Court sides with O'Connor.

 

And the Republicans keep on saying that they are all in on keeping pre-existing conditions but the only proposal they have tried to legislate so far said people with pre-existing conditions couldn't be prohibited from buying health insurance but the health insurance providers could exclude pre-existing conditions from coverage. Some coverage!  For all their protestations, nothing they have offered actually addresses the issue.

 

The reason why Obamacare is constructed the way it is is precisely because of pre-existing conditions. The metaphor is a 3 legged stool. 

The first leg is coverage of all people with pre-existing conditions

The second is making everybody join to help bear the cost of it

The third is subsidizing people who can't afford it. The subsidies can come from taxes, higher rates for those who can afford it, or a combination of both.

And It works very well in other countries. 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

All conservatives want is fairness. 

 

My insurance was about $250 before obamacare through my employer at the time for stellar insurance. 

 

My insurance is now over $1300 a month through healthcare.gov. 

 

Liberals, if you think this is fair - I cant help you, and I wont.

 

Health insurance in the United states for millions and millions and millions of Americans is more than a first time homebuyers mortgage. 

Yes, health insurance is a social system, the strong pay for the weak.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

All conservatives want is fairness. 

 

My insurance was about $250 before obamacare through my employer at the time for stellar insurance. 

 

My insurance is now over $1300 a month through healthcare.gov. 

 

Liberals, if you think this is fair - I cant help you, and I wont.

 

Health insurance in the United states for millions and millions and millions of Americans is more than a first time homebuyers mortgage. 

It actually doesn't make sense to compare employer provided health insurance to insurance purchased individually in the private market.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The expanded Medicaid program for which the Feds pay 90 percent of expenses absolutely is part of Obamacare. That's the program that has massively expanded coverage in states like West Virginia. And it will disappear if the Supreme Court sides with O'Connor.

 

Medicaid is a completely different program than the ACA. You are clearly confusing something you read, so show me what youre looking at and ill give it a look. 

 

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And the Republicans keep on saying that they are all in on keeping pre-existing conditions but the only proposal they have tried to legislate so far said people with pre-existing conditions couldn't be prohibited from buying health insurance but the health insurance providers could exclude pre-existing conditions from coverage.

 

Again, where are you getting this from? 

 

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The third is subsidizing people who can't afford it. The subsidies can come from taxes, higher rates for those who can afford it, or a combination of both.

And It works very well in other countries. 

 

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, health insurance is a social system, the strong pay for the weak.

 

Difference being in the USA we are paying and subsidizing insurance companies that are historically horrible organizations who's entire function is to get you to pay, and then not pay out VS socialized medical care from the state. 2 completely different things and incomparable. 

[Spidey]

Just now, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Medicaid is a completely different program than the ACA. You are clearly confusing something you read, so show me what youre looking at and ill give it a look. 

 

 

Again, where are you getting this from? 

 

 

 

Difference being in the USA we are paying and subsidizing insurance companies that are historically horrible organizations who's entire function is to get you to pay, and then not pay out VS socialized medical care from the state. 2 completely different things and incomparable. 

So your preferred option doesn't include paying insurance companies that are historically horrible organizations who's entire function is to get you to pay, and then not pay out - or does it?

[UncleTouchyFingers]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It actually doesn't make sense to compare employer provided health insurance to insurance purchased individually in the private market.

 

2 years after ACA passed I was paying over $600 a month for a lesser plan through that same employer. 

 

The year I left I was paying $820 for the top plan for just myself, and when I quit I carried the plan myself for the rest of the year and it was over $1000/month. 

 

Even people that got healthcare through their employers were throttled by premium increases and lesser coverage. 

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, rgraham said:

Most of us have excellent healthcare in the US, it comes with our job. Obummer care or the ACA should never have been passed and has done nothing but cost those of us who take care of ourselves.

And can't leave our jobs from fear of losing health insurance , especially if one has a pre existing condition.

 And then there is the other side of the "most of as"

  

Edited December 15, 2018 by sirineou

[UncleTouchyFingers]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If your insurance comes with your job then Obamacare has cost you nothing. Nothing.

 

Whaaaaat? Insurance premium spikes are a direct result of Obamacare, and employers have not been shielded from this. 

 

Do you think if people have insurance through their employer that they..... ...don't have to pay for it? 

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

2 years after ACA passed I was paying over $600 a month for a lesser plan through that same employer. 

 

The year I left I was paying $820 for the top plan for just myself, and when I quit I carried the plan myself for the rest of the year and it was over $1000/month. 

 

Even people that got healthcare through their employers were throttled by premium increases and lesser coverage. 

Employer provided health insurance is not affected by Obamacare. There are no financial or tax obligations placed on employer provided health insurance. If your employer told you otherwise, they were playing you.

While Premiums Soar Under Obamacare, Costs of Employer-Based Plans Are Stable

 

In sharp contrast to the soaring health insurance premiums in many Affordable Care Act marketplaces, the cost of coverage for the vast numbers of people who get insurance through their jobs rose relatively little this year, continuing a period of remarkable stability in the employer market, according to a national survey released Tuesday.

The annual premium for family coverage rose an average of 3 percent to $18,764 this year, according the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonprofit group, which conducted the annual survey of employers. That is the sixth straight year that employer-provided policies have increased by well under 5 percent, according to the survey.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/health/health-insurance-premiums-employer.html

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by bristolboy
quote had too many sentences