Bangkok Bank New York and Thailand--how?

[GoDucks]

now that the US embassy will no longer issue income verification, I was thinking an easy way to prove income would be to open a Bangkok Bank account (I currently do not use this bank) and then sending a few thousand $ per month.

 

I have heard about the "trick" of sending money to the New York branch of Bangkok bank and you get lower fees and better exchange rate.  How is this done?  Just open the account in Thailand and send mney to New York under the account number?

Any insights?

Thanks

[Pib]

Full info at the Bangkok Bank webpage....to below webpage.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

However, come 1 Apr 19 this method effectively goes away unless your bank use the ACH "IAT", repeat, IAT format which no US bank use for retail accounts.   Above webpage talks this issue, why it's occurring, etc.

 

Additionally, if you did try to use it between now and 1 Apr 19 "and" if your bank uses trial deposits to setup an ibanking transfer link" then you will probably not be able to get the link approved as Bangkok Bank began rejecting trial deposit not in IAT format months ago.  However, if you bank does not use trial deposit to validate the transfer link then you can probably get it to work up until 1 Apr 19.

 

 

 

 

[GoDucks]

So its basically not going to work... I wanted this as a long-term solution.  

So annoying.

[Pib]

You can still do a monthly International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT) to do monthly transfers if desired.  But doing an Int'l Wire usually incurs a healthy sending bank fee and may not be as easy as an ACH transfer....depends on how your bank handles Int'l Wires.

 

You could also consider use of a money transfer service like Transferwise. 

[cmarshall]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:54 AM, Pib said:

You can still do a monthly International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT) to do monthly transfers if desired.  But doing an Int'l Wire usually incurs a healthy sending bank fee and may not be as easy as an ACH transfer....depends on how your bank handles Int'l Wires.

 

You could also consider use of a money transfer service like Transferwise. 

Is it clear that a wire transfer to BBK Bank from the US would have to be an international wire transfer?  It would appear that BBK is still a US bank with an ABA number.  The only change is in the format of the information for an ACH transfer.  The difference in cost between a domestic wire transfer and an international one is only about $5 from my bank, if I remember correctly, so it's not a big saving.  I am assuming that SWIFT has its own format, not IAT.

[livram]

I receive two small pensions plus SS each month. They were routed thru BKBnk NY but to avoid any problems I joined State Department Federal Credit Union. To be eligible you have to must join another organizer ($9) year - only took minutes and should be a one time thing.

 

SDFCU application was filled out and copy of passport, etc sent to them over Internet. Next day receive approval. International Wire transfer are $30, it stated that it may take up to 10 days but I received mine at Korat Bangkok Bank next day. 

 

Or if you are senior citizen you can do dometic wire for $6 to Transferwise but the more you send the more it cost. I never went to Bk Bank each month to transfer to regular account so I just did an International Wire Transfer for $30 which worked out to be the cheapest way.

 

Also you receive a debit card  but using ATM in Thailand is costly plus SDFCU charges 3% of amount withdrawn so best to avoided unless emergency.

 

SDFCU has an easy to use website and answered all my emails very quickly.

[lopburi3]

For the amount required each month use of Transferwise from USA is competitive to the ACH Bangkok Bank method as you will normally receive a better exchange rate (locked on transfer request - you know what you will get) and there will not be any exchange fee at Thai bank (as deposit is made in Baht).  There is some question if will meet unknown immigration requirements but as it is likely the most used option expect it will - deposits into Bangkok Bank are clearly marked as international.

[Suradit69]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:54 PM, Pib said:

You can still do a monthly International Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT) to do monthly transfers if desired.  But doing an Int'l Wire usually incurs a healthy sending bank fee and may not be as easy as an ACH transfer....depends on how your bank handles Int'l Wires.

 

You could also consider use of a money transfer service like Transferwise. 

Yes I was using the old ACH method and then changed to using SWIFT.  My broker required that I choose the correspondent bank and I chose Bangkok Bank NY.

 

For making monthly transfers of around $2000, using the old method my broker charged nothing, Bangkok Bank NY charged $5 and Bangkok Bank Thailand charged Baht 200.

 

Now using SWIFT my broker charges $10, but Bangkok Bank NY still charges $5 and Bangkok Bank Thailand Baht 200.

 

I could send larger amounts less often to reduce the monthly cost of the broker's $10 charge, but for amounts over $2000, Bangkok Bank NY will charge $10, so the overall savings would be minimal or nonexistent. 

 

Using SWIFT the few times I have, it seemed the money ended up in my bank account here faster, but of course either method will be affected by US holidays, Thai holiday and weekends.

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Suradit69

[livram]

One thing to remember about a domestic wire to Transferwise is that when Transferwise sends the money is arrives in Thai Baht from a local bank and no fees for converting from $ to Baht are incurred.

 

I think this is correct but I will try next month and see if that is true and if it saves any money.

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, livram said:

One thing to remember about a domestic wire to Transferwise is that when Transferwise sends the money is arrives in Thai Baht from a local bank and no fees for converting from $ to Baht are incurred.

 

I think this is correct but I will try next month and see if that is true and if it saves any money.

It's correct the final leg to the Transferwise transfer is via local transfer....from one of their accounts in Thailand to your account, therefore, there is no Thai bank receiving fee such as the 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) international receiving fee.

[ToddinChonburi]

Transferwise.com   works very good from US.

 I have Usbank

[fxe1200]

I use transferwise about twice a month and it has paid off. They always use the mid-market, guarantee the rate for 48hours, and the money appears within a day, maximum two days free of charge in your Thai account. The small fee they charge is negligible, besides they tell you beforehand how much money will arrive on your account. Just compare.

 

If somebody wants to try this service, he/she can do me the favor and use this link: transferwise.com/u/walterb8. The 50 quid I will receive after three new customers use that service using the link will go right into my charity. Thanks.

 

[thailand49]

On 12/20/2018 at 11:36 PM, cmarshall said:

Is it clear that a wire transfer to BBK Bank from the US would have to be an international wire transfer?  It would appear that BBK is still a US bank with an ABA number.  The only change is in the format of the information for an ACH transfer.  The difference in cost between a domestic wire transfer and an international one is only about $5 from my bank, if I remember correctly, so it's not a big saving.  I am assuming that SWIFT has its own format, not IAT.

I agree,  my brother uses the ACH method from New York,  we were just the other day breaking down the rate he might be getting from Bangkok Bank,  the day his money cleared by Bangkok Bank and the amount it came out at best he was getting 31.50, the rate at that time given out at an ATM was 32.45.

Transferwise is the best way to go and one can't think the larger amount the more you pay the rate Transferwise is so good it will offset anything you might pay.

[Pib]

39 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

I agree,  my brother uses the ACH method from New York,  we were just the other day breaking down the rate he might be getting from Bangkok Bank,  the day his money cleared by Bangkok Bank and the amount it came out at best he was getting 31.50, the rate at that time given out at an ATM was 32.45.

Transferwise is the best way to go and one can't think the larger amount the more you pay the rate Transferwise is so good it will offset anything you might pay.

 

The  Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming transfers and the Visa/Mastercard "full" exchange rate (i.e., no foreign transaction fee charged by the card-issuing bank) are always pretty close to each other....definitely no where close to being 1 baht apart.

 

For example when looking at the Mastercard rate, Visa rate, and Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate for 19 Dec the rates were 32.70, 32.68, and 32.55, respectively.....a max difference of 0.15 baht

 

Here's how Bangkok Bank applies it's fees and exchange in a typical transfer.  Let's say your brother transferred $2,000.  As it flowed thru the Bangkok Bank "New York" branch that branch would slice off a $5 fee for a $2,000 amount.  If it had been a penny over $2K then the fee would have been $10.   Anyway, a $5 fee got applied in this example.  So, $1995 continues on to the branch in Thailand.

 

The branch in Thailand receives the $1995.  The first thing they do is apply their TT Buying Rate in effect at the time.  Lets say it was the 19 Dec rate of 32.55.   1995 times 32.55 equals Bt64,937.25.  Now the bank applies it 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) receiving fee which equates to Bt162.34 which is below the Bt200 minimum so the Bt200 fee is applied.  64,937.25 minus 200 equals Bt 64,737.25 posted to your account.  

 

The two Bangkok Bank fees are applied "before" posting to your account and will not appear anywhere which fools a lot of people into thinking no fee(s) were applied but indeed the fees were applied.

 

It you wanted to crank-in the two Bangkok Bank fees to determine the "effective" exchange rate considering fees applied then 64,737.25 divided by 2000 equals 32.37.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Pib

[wpcoe]

9 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes I was using the old ACH method and then changed to using SWIFT.  My broker required that I choose the correspondent bank and I chose Bangkok Bank NY.

 

For making monthly transfers of around $2000, using the old method my broker charged nothing, Bangkok Bank NY charged $5 and Bangkok Bank Thailand charged Baht 200.

That's interesting.  So, instead of using the ACH system to transfer money domestically to Bangkok Bank's New York branch, you use SWIFT to make the domestic transfer?  Do you use the SWIFT code for the New York branch and simply put the Thailand Bangkok Bank account number on the request form and they automatically transfer it to your account in Thailand?  (What is the SWIFT code for the Bangkok Bank New York branch?)

 

I used to SWIFT transfer directly to SCB in Thailand, but my bank started charging US$50 for an international SWIFT transfer.  Domestic SWIFT transfers are "only" US$25, which makes it more palatable.   So, I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly the exact method you are using.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, wpcoe said:

That's interesting.  So, instead of using the ACH system to transfer money domestically to Bangkok Bank's New York branch, you use SWIFT to make the domestic transfer?  Do you use the SWIFT code for the New York branch and simply put the Thailand Bangkok Bank account number on the request form and they automatically transfer it to your account in Thailand?  (What is the SWIFT code for the Bangkok Bank New York branch?)

 

I used to SWIFT transfer directly to SCB in Thailand, but my bank started charging US$50 for an international SWIFT transfer.  Domestic SWIFT transfers are "only" US$25, which makes it more palatable.   So, I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly the exact method you are using.

No, it's not a domestic transfer, which is why my broker charges me $10, whereas with the ACH transfer it was free.

On the form supplied to me by my broker I indicated that transfers would be going to Bangkok Bank Thailand and included my Bangkok Bank account number and the SWIFT code for Bangkok Bank Thailand.

But my broker, and many US banks, has no direct connection with BB Thailand, so they required a bank in the US to act as the go-between, aka a correspondent bank.

So I chose to use Bangkok Bank in New York. They have a different SWIFT. Code from the one for BB Thailand. I don't have it right now, but if you need it,, PM me and I'll find it.

There are other US banks that can be used as correspondent banks if needed when sending money to Bangkok Bank Thailand, but some of them tack on a hefty charge.  I think I read somewhere that BB New York was cheaper and I've had excellent results using them with ACH transfers so they seemed the safer choice. Some US banks choose the correspondent bank they want to use, so you might get stuck with an expensive one. Luckily my broker allowed me the choice.

 

so basically I get the same results as before for the same charges as before, $5 and baht 200 as far as Bangkok Bank is concerned, but my broker now pockets $10 and the transaction is recorded as an international  transfer to keep the US government happy rather than simply a domestic transfer as was the case previously with the ACH transfers.

 

P.S. the SWIFT codes for Bangkok Bank Thailand and BB New York are 

BKKBTHBK

BKKBUS33

 

respectively.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Suradit69

[wpcoe]

22 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

No, it's not a domestic transfer, which is why my broker charges me $10, whereas with the ACH transfer it was free.

On the form supplied to me by my broker I indicated that transfers would be going to Bangkok Bank Thailand and included my Bangkok Bank account number and the SWIFT code for Bangkok Bank Thailand.

But my broker, and many US banks, has no direct connection with BB Thailand, so they required a bank in the US to act as the go-between, aka a correspondent bank.

So I chose to use Bangkok Bank in New York. They have a different SWIFT. Code from the one for BB Thailand. I don't have it right now, but if you need it,, PM me and I'll find it.

There are other US banks that can be used as correspondent banks if needed when sending money to Bangkok Bank Thailand, but some of them tack on a hefty charge.  I think I read somewhere that BB New York was cheaper and I've had excellent results using them with ACH transfers so they seemed the safer choice. Some US banks choose the correspondent bank they want to use, so you might get stuck with an expensive one. Luckily my broker allowed me the choice.

 

so basically I get the same results as before for the same charges as before, $5 and baht 200 as far as Bangkok Bank is concerned, but my broker now pockets $10 and the transaction is recorded as an international  transfer to keep the US government happy rather than simply a domestic transfer as was the case previously with the ACH transfers.

 

P.S. the SWIFT codes for Bangkok Bank Thailand and BB New York are 

BKKBTHBK

BKKBUS33

 

respectively.

Thanks a lot for the details.

 

I'm surprised, though, that your broker can't do a SWIFT transfer directly to BKKBTHBK.  My credit union with somewhat basic options was able to do SWIFT transfers directly to SCB bank in Thailand without an intermediary, although it was a few years ago and maybe things have changed?  I wonder what is different about Bangkok Bank vs SCB.  

 

Thinking out loud, I wonder if it's possible to do a domestic SWIFT transfer to BKKBUS33 (NY branch) and use the account number of the account within Thailand, like we currently do with the ACH process.  My credit union charges $50 for an international SWIFT and $25 for a domestic SWIFT.  I'm not sure what fees my broker (Fidelity) charges for any SWIFT transfer.  I've been using Fidelity for my ACH transfers (since my credit union was unable to get them to work) and am waiting to hear back from Fidelity if they use the IAT format for ACH before pursuing possible SWIFT transfers with them.

[Thailand J]

2 hours ago, wpcoe said:

I'm not sure what fees my broker (Fidelity) charges for any SWIFT transfer

$0. Fido has just dropped the SWIFT fees lately both domestic and overseas.

I use SWIFT at Vanguard and Charles Schwabs , also free to me. HSBC or Chase as intermediary at $2 most.

[wpcoe]

9 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

$0. Fido has just dropped the SWIFT fees lately both domestic and overseas.

I use SWIFT at Vanguard and Charles Schwabs , also free to me. HSBC or Chase as intermediary at $2 most.

Thanks for the good news.  So, if necessary, I can switch from the ACH transfers I've been using to SWIFT, still with no Fidelity fees.  Oh, wait, does Fidelity need an intermediary for SWIFTing to Bangkok Bank?

[Thailand J]

4 hours ago, wpcoe said:

does Fidelity need an intermediary for SWIFTing to Bangkok Bank?

Sorry I don't know because I have been using Vanguard and Schwab... but i think it is safe to assume they will use HSBC or Chase at $2. Better call to confirm if no one  from this forum come to confirm.

You need to fill in this form:

https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/bank-wire-form-standalone.pdf

A medallion signature guarantee is require, which is sadly not available in Thailand.

[cmarshall]

 

On 12/22/2018 at 12:54 PM, Suradit69 said:

No, it's not a domestic transfer, which is why my broker charges me $10, whereas with the ACH transfer it was free.

SWIFT transfers are international.  Domestic transfers come in two versions: domestic wire transfer and ACH transfer.  Both identify the receiving bank by its ABA number.  ACH transactions are typically free and take 3 days or so.  Domestic wire transfers usually have a cost in the $10 to $35 range and take 0 - 2 days.  In November I did a domestic wire transfer from USAA bank to Bangkok bank for $20 which arrived the same day.  I identified Bangkok bank by its ABA number and provided my account number there.  Bangkok Bank NY charged $10 and Bangkok Bank Thailand charged THB 500, just like an ACH.  However, it was not an ACH transaction, because USAA did not treat as one.

 

So, my theory is that such domestic wire transfers may still work after April 1 since they don't use any ACH format, at least as far as I know, and Bangkok Bank remains a US bank.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

So, my theory is that such domestic wire transfers may still work after April 1 since they don't use any ACH format, at least as far as I know, and Bangkok Bank remains a US bank.

I think somewhere BB New York states that after 1 April basic ACH transfers will be returned to the sending bank.

 

Bangkok Bank NY does have a SWIFT code as a correspondent bank for SWIFT transfers and that is used when my broker sends them money, along with the SWIFT code for Bangkok Bank Thailand and my BB account number.

 

Referring to future ACH transfers they will require the IAT format (that very few US banks have available to retail customers). Using SWIFT appears to be the easier option.

 

Quote

With effective from April 1, 2019, New York branch only process ACH with appropriate IAT format and all non-IAT transactions will be returned.  

 

Quote

Bangkok Bank, New York Branch, is required to receive the ACH transactions in the required IAT format.  This means that we must require that senders who wish to transmit funds to recipients at Bangkok Bank in Thailand to provide certain identifying information. 

 

The IAT is a special code (a Standard Entry Class or “SEC” Code) for ACH payments that enables financial institutions such as Bangkok Bank to identify and monitor international ACH payments and to perform screening to ensure compliance with Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC, U.S. Department of the Treasury) requirements.  The NACHA  rules require Bangkok Bank’s New York Branch which serves as intermediary, to ensure that payments that are transmitted to account of beneficiary in other country are appropriately classified as IATs and contain information as described below.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

ACH transactions are typically free and take 3 days or so. 

Yes, my broker used that method when I was doing ACH transfers, but they were sent at the end of each business day.

From limited experience now using SWIFT it does seems a bit faster getting the deposit settled in Thailand compared to the ACH method, but I've only done a couple of SWIFT transfers so not much to generalize. Of course US holidays, Thai holidays and intervening weekends can make a difference for either method.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Suradit69

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, Thailand J said:

A medallion signature guarantee is require, which is sadly not available in Thailand.

Vanguard required a medallion signature guarantee too and on the form it said they would accept a US embassy signature guarantee as well, but the US embassy is not allowed to certify signatures that would amount to a medallion guarantee. I tried. They were adamant.

 

But, I then had the embassy certify a copy of my US passport ID page and I filled out a blank affidavit form (that is provided on the embassy website), not mentioning anything about banks, brokers or transfers. I just wrote out my US address on the affidavit and signed it in front of the consular officer in order to get something with my signature guaranteed.

 

I sent those two documents along with my application to Vanguard for SWIFT transfers to Bangkok Bank and Vanguard accepted that in place of the medallion guarantee. 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Suradit69

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

 

But, I then had the embassy certify a copy of my US passport ID page and I filled out a blank affidavit form (that is provided on the embassy website), not mentioning anything about banks, brokers or transfers. I just wrote out my US address on the affidavit and signed it in front of the consular officer in order to get something with my signature guaranteed.

 

I sent those two documents along with my application to Vanguard for SWIFT transfers to Bangkok Bank and Vanguard accepted that in place of the medallion guarantee. 

 

So that was "two docs" notarized by the Embassy....each notary costing $50 for a total of $100?

[cmarshall]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

I think somewhere BB New York states that after 1 April basic ACH transfers will be returned to the sending bank.

 

Bangkok Bank NY does have a SWIFT code as a correspondent bank for SWIFT transfers and that is used when my broker sends them money, along with the SWIFT code for Bangkok Bank Thailand and my BB account number.

 

Referring to future ACH transfers they will require the IAT format (that very few US banks have available to retail customers). Using SWIFT appears to be the easier option.

 

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

Yes, my broker used that method when I was doing ACH transfers, but they were sent at the end of each business day.

From limited experience now using SWIFT it does seems a bit faster getting the deposit settled in Thailand compared to the ACH method, but I've only done a couple of SWIFT transfers so not much to generalize. Of course US holidays, Thai holidays and intervening weekends can make a difference for either method.

 

You seemed to have missed the point of my earlier post.  I am talking about domestic wire transfers from a US bank to Bangkok Bank, NOT ACH transfers and NOT SWIFT transfers.  I understand that ACH transfers that are not IAT format will be refused after April 1.  My suggestion is that that fact does not imply that domestic wire transfers from US banks will also be refused, since they have their own format.

[Thailand J]

 

28 minutes ago, Pib said:

So that was "two docs" notarized by the Embassy....each notary costing $50 for a total of $100?

which is the same as two SWIFT transfer fees from some credit union.

[Suradit69]

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

So that was "two docs" notarized by the Embassy....each notary costing $50 for a total of $100?

Plus two trips to Bangkok. The first trip I got my income affidavit and was shot down when I tried to get the medallion signature guarantee. 

 

Took me awhile to regroup and decide to go for the passport certification and signature guarantee. I expect Vanguard might have been OK with the passport certification, but that wouldn't include any signature guarantee. 

 

Then I started worrying that my income affidavit would be too old when I went in for the retirement extension, so I got another during my second trip. As it turned out, I submitted my 3 1/2 month old embassy income certification at Jomtien today and they accepted it without a problem. 

 

I tend to envision worst-case scenarios and go for overkill solutions.

 

So embassy fees and travel costs to eventually get two income affidavits  and 2 docs for Vanguard came in in excess of $400. 

 

Not too pleased with the cost, but I had to set up the the SWIFT transfers and the only alternative I could see would have meant travelling back to the US to set up transfers from my bank which requires applications to be made in person and then when making each transfer they want to send a code number to a cell phone for verification which would be impossible while I'm in Thailand.

 

Anyway, I'm putting Baht 800,000 in my Thai bank account at least until there's some certainty about what immigrations will require in future. So however it settles, for 2019 and after, I will no longer need to deal with the US embassy or worry about what will be required for financial proof.

 

First the change regarding transfers via Bangkok Bank and then the end of income certificates from the US embassy and the end, sort of, of their outreach visits to Pattaya and now the plummeting US stock market. I think 2018 will go down as an annus horribilis, to quote Queen Elizabeth.

 

 

 

[cmarshall]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

Vanguard required a medallion signature guarantee too and on the form it said they would accept a US embassy signature guarantee as well, but the US embassy is not allowed to certify signatures that would amount to a medallion guarantee. I tried. They were adamant.

 

But, I then had the embassy certify a copy of my US passport ID page and I filled out a blank affidavit form (that is provided on the embassy website), not mentioning anything about banks, brokers or transfers. I just wrote out my US address on the affidavit and signed it in front of the consular officer in order to get something with my signature guaranteed.

 

I sent those two documents along with my application to Vanguard for SWIFT transfers to Bangkok Bank and Vanguard accepted that in place of the medallion guarantee. 

 

Seems risky to me to be doing international transfers directly from a Vanguard account.  If they decide at some point in the future based on factors like a history of foreign money transfers that you perhaps no longer reside in the US, they may demand a US electric bill verifying your US address or else they will close your account.

 

Hard to know how likely that would be, but better to do the transfer from a bank that is easier to replace than Vanguard.

[Thailand J]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

Vanguard required a medallion signature guarantee too

Schwab is easy, just the account owner's signature.

With my brokerage accounts, I have little love for Bangkok Bank NY branch. ????

 

[Thailand J]

Just now, cmarshall said:

Seems risky to me to be doing international transfers directly from a Vanguard account.  If they decide at some point in the future based on factors like a history of foreign money transfers that you perhaps no longer reside in the US, they may demand a US electric bill verifying your US address or else they will close your account.

 

Hard to know how likely that would be, but better to do the transfer from a bank that is easier to replace than Vanguard.

I have Fidelity, Vanguard and Schwab accounts with my Thai address and phone number.

I know I can also open a new account with Interactive Brokers or TD Ameritrade with my Thai address.