Which embassies have cancelled issuing the affidavit? list?

[D3030]

7 minutes ago, jimn said:

Wrong. Until Thai Immigration say otherwise. Embassy letters are valid for 6 months from the issue date.

I'm just repeating what others have stated, which is info they received from a Thai immigration officer.

 

The stuff being put out are just rumors, but it was just a few months ago that it was not true (rumor) that the U.S. Embassy would stop issuing income affidavits.

 

I just read the requirements for a one year extension and it has not changed, but does that mean in 3 months when I apply for another one year extension, I won't be told an income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy is no longer acceptable?

 

I plan on visiting the Immigration office where I live next week and will ask them what they will accept since there are conflicting posts not in just this forum, but others well.

 

 

[jacko45k]

31 minutes ago, jimn said:

I purposely posted that as I wanted to see who would be first.

So you were deliberately baiting the whole board?

[Spidey]

10 hours ago, wgdanson said:

All State Pensions in UK are paid by Dept of Work & Pensions (DWP).

 

But wouldn't give you the required monthly income. I qualify with my company pension which doesn't go anywhere near the DWP.

[Spidey]

19 minutes ago, D3030 said:

I just read the requirements for a one year extension and it has not changed, but does that mean in 3 months when I apply for another one year extension, I won't be told an income affidavit from the U.S. Embassy is no longer acceptable?

No you won't. However, you need to obtain your income affidavit before your embassy stops producing them - like now!

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, thailand49 said:

Just because the four has made the decision I haven't heard anything about whether Thai Immigration will accept the others?

More importantly, no one has heard that they won't.

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Thai immigration has set the requirements they only care if the embassies can be trusted.  When it comes to the US and UK these are probably 2 of the biggest number of expats.  They are according to people on TV the 2 laziest.

Most other embassies ask for proof.  Therefore they can sign and know that you are not BSing them.

 

I would imagine that immigration is got to do the same thing and ask for the paperwork that you gave the embassy to justify the letter.  If you are above board you have no worries

 

British embassy did ask for proof.

[jimn]

38 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

So you were deliberately baiting the whole board?

No I posted a truthful response, but there is always someone who will correct you even though its that someone who needs correcting. 

[DrJack54]

The income letter, affidavit, income verification, stat DEC, ....whatever you want to call it, is a nonesence. 

Most posts here and other treads about PENSIONS. Many many folk live here on income streams, as most posts from members have mentioned. I could post say au bank a/c statement showing rental incomes of $1500 au a week, backed up with agents statements. Can the au embassy check that? State with certainty that that is my income. What if my overdrafts require weekly repayments of $2000 aud. Or perhaps I own them outright (which I do) blah blah. How can some clerk in au or any embassy truely attest to that claim. Not to mention all other forms of income someone may have.

 

[evadgib]

4 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

When it comes to the US and UK these are probably 2 of the biggest number of expats.  They are according to people on TV the 2 laziest.

Straight from the 'bloke-in-a-pub' handbook????

The rules by which foreign missions operate are readily available online yet all too often on TV it becomes clear that it isn't only the Thai Govt that should have a periodic look...

[D3030]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

No you won't. However, you need to obtain your income affidavit before your embassy stops producing them - like now!

Maybe I won't, but I swear, some guy already made a post that he was told to open a Thai bank account - informed by an IO,

 (unknown Immigration Office) they will not accept an income affidavits and will only accept a Thai bank statement as proof of income.

 

Either way, I don't care.  Going to U.S. Embassy is an inconvenience, but enjoyable for the other stuff.. 

 

If I have to open a Thai bank account, which is a minor inconvenience, so be it.

 

I would prefer just to provide either my U.S. bank statements: letter to prove that I receive a pension; or tax form.

Edited December 20, 2018 by D3030

[DrJack54]

22 minutes ago, D3030 said:

Maybe I won't, but I swear, some guy already made a post that he was told to open a Thai bank account - informed by an IO,

 (unknown Immigration Office) they will not accept an income affidavits and will only accept a Thai bank statement as proof of income.

 

Either way, I don't care.  Going to U.S. Embassy is an inconvenience, but enjoyable for the other stuff.. 

 

If I have to open a Thai bank account, which is a minor inconvenience, so be it.

 

I would prefer just to provide either my U.S. bank statements: letter to prove that I receive a pension; or tax form.

Last paragraph won't happen.

[jesimps]

13 hours ago, wgdanson said:

All State Pensions in UK are paid by Dept of Work & Pensions (DWP).

 

That's correct, and my civil service pension is paid by the cabinet office. It would be so easy for me to sign a waiver to allow them to confirm my pension with a few clicks of the mouse. I honestly think that the reason the Brit embassy won't do it is that they'd find it too involved to check the income of those not on state or works pensions and they don't want to be accused of discrimination. I'm really of the opinion though, as a payer of full UK tax, that the ambassador is capable of liaising between the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs (equivalent) and the British Foreign Office to sort out some alternative sort of income arrangement. As an ex (lowly) member of the FCO, I like to think that this would've happened in my day.

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, sleepy99 said:

I do understand that since these few do make up a large majority of the expats living here, it is troublesome for those affected.

The UK, AU, and USA effect enough expats to drive up agent-money by multiples of today's take, so immigration may be satisfied for awhile.  When the latest new car isn't fancy enough anymore, Canada is another large-population target, whose expats could be agent-harvested for more tea-money, simply by rejecting their letters.

But, I just saw the latest post indicating a new police order may be in the works.  My thinking (just a guess, and assuming this actually happens), is that that a new order could replace embassy-letters entirely, with "show monthly foreign-xfer deposits" demonstrating foreign-income for immigration's purposes:

 

 

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, D3030 said:

I plan on visiting the Immigration office where I live next week and will ask them what they will accept since there are conflicting posts not in just this forum, but others well.

I think your visit to immigration to ask questions will be premature. It is clear that this is still under discussion at top levels within the Immigration Bureau. I expect the new national rules to be announced at some point in the next month. That will be a suitable time to visit your local immigration office to see what variations they intend to enforce.

[jesimps]

7 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Thai immigration has set the requirements they only care if the embassies can be trusted.  When it comes to the US and UK these are probably 2 of the biggest number of expats.  They are according to people on TV the 2 laziest.

Most other embassies ask for proof.  Therefore they can sign and know that you are not BSing them.

 

I would imagine that immigration is got to do the same thing and ask for the paperwork that you gave the embassy to justify the letter.  If you are above board you have no worries

 

The British Embassy also require proof in the form of documentation, they don't use the affidavit method. It's the fact that they refuse to go further and verify the documents that's the problem. Immigration WON'T accept income documents as proof, only an embassy verification letter.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, jesimps said:

The British Embassy also require proof in the form of documentation, they don't use the affidavit method. It's the fact that they refuse to go further and verify the documents that's the problem. Immigration WON'T accept income documents as proof, only an embassy verification letter.

In the main because its IMPOSSIBLE to "verify" an actual PROOF of income. One member suggested income tax return. Umm not timewise possible, but accurate. As for all the "pension folk" ....  Problem is lot of expats don't live off pensions. Even for them income method means FA. 

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, jesimps said:

The British Embassy also require proof in the form of documentation, they don't use the affidavit method. It's the fact that they refuse to go further and verify the documents that's the problem. Immigration WON'T accept income documents as proof, only an embassy verification letter.

In some cases, they want the embassy letter in addition to additional supporting proof.  This has become standard in Chang Mai for Americans (not sure about Brits).

[luckyluke]

Hundreds of expats other than Americans, Australians, British, Danes are aware of nothing, or consider the decision of the 4 embassies as no concern for them.

 

I am a member of a Flemish  and Dutch forum, on a list to get important news from a French club in Pattaya, and have some German aquaintances.

 

They all know about the 4 embassies, but all mention it has no concern for them.

 

 

Why should they, T.I. haven't change anything in their directives.

 

They may of course today.

 

And everybody knows of course that every expat may be subject to special demands by an Immigration officer when visiting Immigration with a bank or Embassy letter.

 

Always been like that.

 

P.S. I have personally contacted the Austrian Consul-General in Pattaya who issue L.o.I. for Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxemburgers.

He let me know that nothing has changed.

 

Will see, this is Thailand, and everybody staying here since a while knows that nothing is for sure here and that every individual can be treated differently.

[onera1961]

13 hours ago, StevieAus said:

That said each year I have produced to Immigration when renewing my retirement extension a letter from my pension fund in Australia and copies of my Thai bank account in addition to the Embassy letter.

May be from now on you only have to provide one evidence - copies of your Thai bank account. 

[jacko45k]

26 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

May be from now on you only have to provide one evidence - copies of your Thai bank account. 

Speculative at the moment but let us hope so. Until announced let us wait and see.

[Spidey]

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

In the main because its IMPOSSIBLE to "verify" an actual PROOF of income. One member suggested income tax return. Umm not timewise possible, but accurate. As for all the "pension folk" ....  Problem is lot of expats don't live off pensions. Even for them income method means FA. 

Depends on your definition of "verify". I supplied my income tax return (P60), one pension payslip an 3 months worth of bank statements, all originals, every year, to the British embassy. By them being able to knowledgably peruse these documents, I would consider that to be verification of my income.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

May be from now on you only have to provide one evidence - copies of your Thai bank account. 

Even if they allow this method, I would bet they will also ask for :

- your original bank book

- a letter from the Bank confirming X transfers (1? 3? 12?) above 65k, and from abroad (?)

[Spidey]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

Even if they allow this method, I would bet they will also ask for :

- your original bank book

- a letter from the Bank confirming X transfers (1? 3? 12?) above 65k, and from abroad (?)

Also, does state income, not easy to prove with a bank book. I bring more than 65k baht into Thailand every month. I use the method of withdrawing the cash, in a bank, on my UK credit card, then immediately depositing the cash into my Thai bank account. I do keep all the CC receipts, and deposit slips, which are also shown in my bank book. I don't see how I can satisfy immigration that the incoming funds are from foreign income.

 

Impossible for me to have my company pension paid into a Thai bank account and wouldn't want to transfer the full amount anyway. Doing a SWIFT transfer/direct debit from my UK account would be far less convenient and more expensive.

 

 

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Also, does state income, not easy to prove with a bank book. //

So many members here insisting/focusing on words income and verify ...

IMHO Thai Immigration doesn't care if it's strictly income or not.

As long as you show that you can bring (or get) enough money in Thailand, they will be happy with that. 

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Also, does state income, not easy to prove with a bank book. I bring more than 65k baht into Thailand every month. I use the method of withdrawing the cash, in a bank, on my UK credit card, then immediately depositing the cash into my Thai bank account. I do keep all the CC receipts, and deposit slips, which are also shown in my bank book. I don't see how I can satisfy immigration that the incoming funds are from foreign income.

 

Impossible for me to have my company pension paid into a Thai bank account and wouldn't want to transfer the full amount anyway. Doing a SWIFT transfer/direct debit from my UK account would be far less convenient and more expensive.

 

 

By far the most expensive way to obtain money from abroad is bank card used in Thailand. The exchange rate is so bad. Transfer wise etc better however best (only suitable if you visit home each year) is to bring in largish amount and exchange here with a company. Not a bank.

Edited December 21, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[Spidey]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

So many members here insisting/focusing on words income and verify ...

IMHO Thai Immigration doesn't care if it's strictly income or not.

As long as you show that you can bring (or get) enough money in Thailand, they will be happy with that. 

Well I sincerely hope that you are right. However, current TI immigration rules do refer to "income". They don't specifically say that an embassy letter is required, that's buried in police orders apparently. I think that most people are assuming that the rule won't change but a new police order will be issued, giving more flexibility on the proof of income.

 

Embassy letters will remain as a valid method of proving income as many embassies will continue to issue them.

[Spidey]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

By far the most expensive way to obtain money from abroad is bank card used in Thailand. The exchange rate is so bad. Transfer wise etc better however best (only suitable if you visit home each year) is to bring in largish amount and exchange here with a company. Not a bank.

Absolutely untrue. It costs me nothing to transfer monies by the method I described. Also, I get the Mastercard exchange rate. I have checked this several times and it's a much better rate than my Thai bank offers and normally equals, or betters, the exchange rate at TT booths.

 

Others have said that when a TransferWise hits your Thai account, it isn't recorded as a foreign transfer.

 

For me, the most important factor is convenience. Money leaves my UK account and is deposited in my Thai account instantly. How much I want and whenever I need it. Any other method requires days between applying for my transfer and it arriving in my account. When I first moved to Thailand I used SWIFT transfers and it took between 3 and 5 days, I transferred a large amount of money (buying a house) by Swift transfer, a few months ago and it took 5 days, which messed up the purchase of my house and delayed my taking possession of the keys.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Impossible for me to have my company pension paid into a Thai bank account and wouldn't want to transfer the full amount anyway. Doing a SWIFT transfer/direct debit from my UK account would be far less convenient and more expensive.

Perhaps less than paying an agent for a faked-money extension?  This is, sadly, what it may come down to.  Transfer-fees may become an added cost of staying here, if using income to meet the financials (even though the xfers don't actually "prove income" by any stretch).

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Perhaps less than paying an agent for a faked-money extension?  This is, sadly, what it may come down to.  Transfer-fees may become an added cost of staying here, if using income to meet the financials (even though the xfers don't actually "prove income" by any stretch).

I've done the maths and the cheapest (not free) option is to transfer 800k to a Thai bank account.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

I've done the maths and the cheapest (not free) option is to transfer 800k to a Thai bank account.

The cheapest way for most nationalities is to hand carry the money in cash in your local currency, and change it to baht at SuperRich (green) or Vasu.

 

If you are not planning to be in your home country, TransferWise tends to work out cheaper than a bank transfer, though this is not always true for large transfers.