Trump starts withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria, claims victory

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, DeaconJohn said:

Let's hope this move is a prelude to a similar disengagement from the quagmire in Afghanistan and a full withdrawal from Iraq.

The US doesn't need Middle East oil anymore and Israel is strong enough to defend itself.

Declare victory and leave.

Enough lives have been lost and money wasted for no good reason.

Another "whatever one may think..." Trump has made it a pillar of his mideast policy to oppose Iran. So, if you think it's important to keep Iran in check, this seems a very foolish move.

It's also devastating for the Kurds and those who allied themselves with them. 

The Israelis sure can't be happy about this.

Nor the Saudis or the UAE.

On the other hand, the Iranians, Turks, Syrian government and the Russians must be delighted.

I do think that the Isil fears are overblown. They are going to have the Syrians, the Iranians, Hezbollah, and Russians opposing them. At one time the Syrian army was a pretty toothless force but no longer. War has a way of shaping up an army and weeding out the bad officers very quickly.

Edited December 20, 2018 by bristolboy

[JAG]

1 hour ago, carken said:

I served 4 years in the US Army 2nd Armored Div(Hell On Wheels)

 

I worked with them, on one of the really big NATO exercises in West Germany in the 1980s, they had these really gucci shoulder patches. At the time we were part of 2nd British Armoured Division, so we made up some patches too - green NBC suit repair tape and black marker pen. They announced:

"2 Br Armd Div - Hell on paper"

 

Had to take them off - real major sense of humour failures all over the place!

 

Back to the topic and discussion, whilst I rather sympathise with some of your views, this sort of precipitous withdrawal could/will destabilise an already delicate situation and lead to many more deaths.

Edited December 20, 2018 by JAG

[JulesMad]

So if ISIS is defeated, where are those 10 terrorists a day that cross the border from Mexico from?

Any future terrorist attacks and bombings, claimed by ISIS, is therefor fake news.... At least according to the absolute genius/super idiot

[Hummin]

As long Middle east is busy with each other, we are now in the state of prepering for war against China, and Russia. As long Russia is busy with middle east, the better. Nato is arming up for a long war! There is no way we can accept China taking over the world. 

[BestB]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It does seem fishy. But everything about Individual-1's tragicomic regime is fishy. He's not a legitimate president in the first place. 

What is fishy ? It was one of his promises during the campaiging. 

So who is the legitimate one then?

[spidermike007]

Donald Trump has surrendered to Russia. US lost. Russia won in Syria. He informed the loyal Kurds by tweet. Disgraceful. Inelegant. How many times has the US now abandoned the Kurds as an ally? He threw another ally under the bus. This is just his M.O. Cut and run. Trump is a gutless coward and the last man in the world you want as an ally.

 

Trump is just wrong on this one. A real bone headed move. He just woke up and said, wow, this will be a great distraction from all of the terrible news. Wrong. Even your allies in the Senate are speaking out about how horrendous a miscalculation this was. A Christmas gift for your buddy Putin. A real step backwards for America.

 

Donald Trump. Making America less safe again. Trump needs to admit he is incompetent, and resign. He has no head for foreign policy. This is adult stuff, and it is way over his head. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by spidermike007

[Jingthing]

Mission

Not

Accomplished

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-islamic-state-remains-a-deadly-insurgent-force-analysts-say-despite-trumps-claim-it-has-been-defeated/2018/12/19/f4ed3396-03d3-11e9-9122-82e98f91ee6f_story.html

 

 

The Islamic State remains a deadly insurgent force, analysts say, despite Trump’s claim it has been defeated

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[Prissana Pescud]

I remember Bush Jr stepping out of an airplane on an aircraft carrier and stating that US had won the war in Iraq.

Of course the illegal and WMD phoney reason to invade Iraq created ISIS from the remnants of Husseins Sunni faction, supported by Saudi Arabia.

The biggest losers are the Kurds. Turkey will decimate the Kurds who were arguably the most effective land forces to fight ISIS.

The biggest winners will be Russia and the remnants of ISIS. 

 But no surprise really, Trump is kow towing to his mate Putin. 

And Trump needs some deflection from home affairs.

[Jingthing]

No amount of deflection will help. In fact I think this crazy move raises the chances that more Republicans will turn on him. Pence would never behave that way.

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[Tug]

Donald doesent have a problem abandoning allies to try to change the news cycle his incompetence and perhaps the greater affront his immorality is truley breath taking hey guys tired of winning yet?

[Thakkar]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump tweeted that "We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there."

 

Trump later also tweeted:

 

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

12/20/18, 7:16 PM

....Russia, Iran, Syria & many others are not happy about the U.S. leaving, despite what the Fake News says, because now they will have to fight ISIS and others, who they hate, without us. I am building by far the most powerful military in the world. ISIS hits us they are doomed!

 

 

- -

I suppose the Russians and Iranians are dispatching a crack team of mimes to to kabuki fight the already defeated ISIS.

[neeray]

News of a of a full withdrawal drew immediate criticism from some of Trump's fellow Republicans, who said that leaving strengthened the hand of Russia and Iran, which both support Syrian President Bashar al Assad.

 

Now we have a good guess as to what was discussed behind closed doors in the very secretive Helsinki meeting.

Says Trump "what can I gift you for Christmas Vlad?"

Answers Vlad "you can get the hell out of Syria and let me have it".

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Mission

Not

Accomplished

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-islamic-state-remains-a-deadly-insurgent-force-analysts-say-despite-trumps-claim-it-has-been-defeated/2018/12/19/f4ed3396-03d3-11e9-9122-82e98f91ee6f_story.html

 

 

The Islamic State remains a deadly insurgent force, analysts say, despite Trump’s claim it has been defeated

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Whatever the flaws of Trump's move, I don't think Isil is going to have much to cheer about. The Syrian army is now a very capable fighting force as are Hezbollah and the Iranians. And they have Russian air support. And given that the Washington Post editorial board was one of the most enthusiastic backers of the Iraq War, and as far as I know remains basically unapologetic, I don't give them much credence.

[Prissana Pescud]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

No amount of deflection will help. In fact I think this crazy move raises the chances that more Republicans will turn on him. Pence would never behave that way.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sometimes I agree with your posts, but...

The republican party has had ample reasons to "turn on him" They have not done so, nor will they so until they (as individuals) may be voted out.

This still does not look likely. As repugnant as Trump appears, the US still loves him.

Trump uses chaos as a business and political strategy. In doing this strategy, right wing politics will rally behind him.

The US is now a right wing country, so this move is a winner for Trump.

 A loser for the Kurds.

A huge winner to Russia, Turkey and ISIS.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Sometimes I agree with your posts, but...

The republican party has had ample reasons to "turn on him" They have not done so, nor will they so until they (as individuals) may be voted out.

This still does not look likely. As repugnant as Trump appears, the US still loves him.

Trump uses chaos as a business and political strategy. In doing this strategy, right wing politics will rally behind him.

The US is now a right wing country, so this move is a winner for Trump.

 A loser for the Kurds.

A huge winner to Russia, Turkey and ISIS.

Weird post. 

I don't agree with you.

The USA is a centrist or center right country, not a right wing country.

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote decisively.

In the recent national house election, the democrats won by a massive popular vote landslide, short of a seat gain landslide due to gerrymandering. 

How is abandoning the Kurds and giving Russia and Turkey cause for celebration right wing?

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Whatever the flaws of Trump's move, I don't think Isil is going to have much to cheer about. The Syrian army is now a very capable fighting force as are Hezbollah and the Iranians. And they have Russian air support. And given that the Washington Post editorial board was one of the most enthusiastic backers of the Iraq War, and as far as I know remains basically unapologetic, I don't give them much credence.

It's not that simple. Of course they are apologetic. They even criticized the Bush Mission Accomplished speech as B.S. the moment it happened. I get your basic point though, but, sorry just because they have been wrong before, doesn't mean they're wrong on this.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Jingthing

[Prissana Pescud]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Weird post. 

I don't agree with you.

The USA is a centrist or center right country, not a right wing country.

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote decisively.

In the recent national house election, the democrats won by a massive popular vote landslide, short of a seat gain landslide due to gerrymandering. 

How is abandoning the Kurds and giving Russia and Turkey cause for celebration right wing?

Really?, the senate majority increased to the repubs. And that is where it counts.

The US was never going to support the Kurds, they just used them. It was Repubs that invaded, they knew that open support for the Kurds

would lead to a bitter division in Iraq. Not a moral reason, a political reason.

Regardless of the overall numbers that voted for Clinton, the political college (those that really rule) overwhelmingly voted for Trump.

Believe it or not, he won the election and that is all that counts.

The right wing and centre right love Trump.

Trump loves Russia. et al 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Really?, the senate majority increased to the repubs. And that is where it counts.

The US was never going to support the Kurds, they just used them. It was Repubs that invaded, they knew that open support for the Kurds

would lead to a bitter division in Iraq. Not a moral reason, a political reason.

Regardless of the overall numbers that voted for Clinton, the political college (those that really rule) overwhelmingly voted for Trump.

Believe it or not, he won the election and that is all that counts.

The right wing and centre right love Trump.

Trump loves Russia. et al 

Your argument lacks any credibility. Do you even know how U.S. elections work? Only a limited number of senate races were run (as is the structure) and they happened to be in mostly right wing states. The only recent national election was for the house. As far as 2016, Individual-1 suckered an awful lot of people. Many of his foolish voters actually thought he was for national health care, which btw, is supported by a significant majority of Americans.

[Prissana Pescud]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Your argument lacks any credibility. Do you even know how U.S. elections work? Only a limited number of senate races were run (as is the structure) and they happened to be in mostly right wing states. The only recent national election was for the house. As far as 2016, Individual-1 suckered an awful lot of people. Many of his foolish voters actually thought he was for national health care, which btw, is supported by a significant majority of Americans.

And did not the court rule that the health care was unconstitutional?

A limited number of Senate races were run and Trump won most of them.

Now you call the voters foolish. Some others may be foolish if they think Trump is in trouble. 

Putin has just announced that he is proud of Trumps position. Despite Trump claiming that Russia would be angry.

You fail to understand politics. You fail to understand that the US population will back Trump. Again.

You need to take a dose of reality pills

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

And did not the court rule that the health care was unconstitutional?

A limited number of Senate races were run and Trump won most of them.

Now you call the voters foolish. Some others may be foolish if they think Trump is in trouble. 

Putin has just announced that he is proud of Trumps position. Despite Trump claiming that Russia would be angry.

You fail to understand politics. You fail to understand that the US population will back Trump. Again.

You need to take a dose of reality pills

One district court judge, who is famed for his right wing political leanings. ruled that Obamacare was unconstitutional. Most legal scholars from left to right expect his decision to be overturned because he ignored the long established judicial principle of severability.

 

No, neither Trump nor the Republicans won most of the Senate races. The Democrats or independents who caucus with the Democrats won 24 seats and the Republicans won 11.

 

Did Trump claim that Russia would be angry because of the USA's withdrawal? Who knows? The ignoramus may even believe it. Anyone with the least knowledge of the situation would know that to be ridiculous.

 

The Socialists at Fox news just ran a poll. They asked if the voters planned to definitely vote for Trump or probably vote for Trump. The total was 38%.  Voters who definitely or probably planned to vote against Trump came to a total of 55%.

 

You just pulled off an amazing feat. You managed to be just about as wrong repeatedly as wrong can be.

Edited December 20, 2018 by bristolboy

[Krataiboy]

. . . succeeded in their mission to defeat Islamic State 

 

Excuse me?  As I recall, the original US mission was regime change in Syria, using a proxy army of assorted Islamic extremists.

 

When Assad, aided by Iran and Russia, proved to tough a nut to crack some of the insurgent leaders broke away to create IS and build their own Sunni caliphate. 

 

They might well have succeeded had it not been for a a sustained bombing campaign by Putin's warplanes which disrupted IS supply lines and put its scattered forces on the back foot. 

 

But why let facts spoil a good story. When it comes to fake news, the White House propagandists are in a class of their own.

[spidermike007]

55 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Sometimes I agree with your posts, but...

The republican party has had ample reasons to "turn on him" They have not done so, nor will they so until they (as individuals) may be voted out.

This still does not look likely. As repugnant as Trump appears, the US still loves him.

Trump uses chaos as a business and political strategy. In doing this strategy, right wing politics will rally behind him.

The US is now a right wing country, so this move is a winner for Trump.

 A loser for the Kurds.

A huge winner to Russia, Turkey and ISIS.

 

An 89% approval rating amongst those that voted for him. The fake master leads the devotees into the abyss and precipitates the decline of America. What can one say? 

 

DT. Making America less great and less safe by the day. 

[spidermike007]

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

One district court judge, who is famed for his right wing political leanings. ruled that Obamacare was unconstitutional. Most legal scholars from left to right expect his decision to be overturned because he ignored the long established judicial principle of severability.

 

No, neither Trump nor the Republicans won most of the Senate races. The Democrats or independents who caucus with the Democrats won 24 seats and the Republicans won 11.

 

Did Trump claim that Russia would be angry because of the USA's withdrawal? Who knows? The ignoramus may even believe it. Anyone with the least knowledge of the situation would know that to be ridiculous.

 

The Socialists at Fox news just ran a poll. They asked if the voters planned to definitely vote for Trump or probably vote for Trump. The total was 38%.  Voters who definitely or probably planned to vote against Trump came to a total of 55%.

 

You just pulled off an amazing feat. You managed to be just about as wrong repeatedly as wrong can be.

 

Thank you. In the interests of truth, it is always a good thing to call out a parrot. Russian would be angry that Trump left them to their own devices and allowed them to declare total victory to their people? Delusional? At a minimum. 

[Prissana Pescud]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Thank you. In the interests of truth, it is always a good thing to call out a parrot. Russian would be angry that Trump left them to their own devices and allowed them to declare total victory to their people? Delusional? At a minimum. 

Putin has just welcomed the US withdrawal, at exactly the same time that Trump tweeted Russia would be angry.

To Krataiboy, you should understand that Syria and Iran are allied.

 ISIS is a Sunni group. So Syria, Russia and Iran did not create ISIS. Iran is actually fighting ISIS in the southern regions of Iraq.

Saudi Arabia is mostly Sunni. All evidence seems to point to SA as major funding for ISIS. 

Turkey seems to be the purchaser of the oil that ISIS was selling when they controlled western Iraq.

 I would say what the Iranian sect was but would probably be censored. It is a rude western word. Your post is totally wrong. Sorry

 

[Prissana Pescud]

50 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

One district court judge, who is famed for his right wing political leanings. ruled that Obamacare was unconstitutional. Most legal scholars from left to right expect his decision to be overturned because he ignored the long established judicial principle of severability.

 

No, neither Trump nor the Republicans won most of the Senate races. The Democrats or independents who caucus with the Democrats won 24 seats and the Republicans won 11.

 

Did Trump claim that Russia would be angry because of the USA's withdrawal? Who knows? The ignoramus may even believe it. Anyone with the least knowledge of the situation would know that to be ridiculous.

 

The Socialists at Fox news just ran a poll. They asked if the voters planned to definitely vote for Trump or probably vote for Trump. The total was 38%.  Voters who definitely or probably planned to vote against Trump came to a total of 55%.

 

You just pulled off an amazing feat. You managed to be just about as wrong repeatedly as wrong can be.

You need to watch up to date news

[Jingthing]

Could this be the very worst decision Individial-1 has made yet in his role as illegitimate president?

 

Quote

Trump’s Syria bug-out: Here’s just how illogical and dangerous he is

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/20/trumps-syria-bug-out-heres-just-how-illogical-dangerous-he-is/

[lannarebirth]

I can still remember when Democrats were the anti war party. Getting old I guess.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

You need to watch up to date news

Russia Today?

PressTV? 

[Prissana Pescud]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Russia Today?

PressTV? 

I get 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I get 

We know.