Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

[happy chappie]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Well for starters just try to get 12 months travel insurance if over the age of 66. No can do. If in UK. Plus journeys must originate in UK.

You didn't quite understand.the insurance is just for showing you have it to immo.i can go on line buy and print out 12 months travel insurance today.wether it would be valid or not doesn't matter,it's just to please immigration.anyway insureandgo.co.uk will do 12 months basic travel insurance for a 68yr old for 4,000b.for me @55 yr it's £40.99.there sorted out from my desk in the jungle.

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

You didn't quite understand.the insurance is just for showing you have it to immo.i can go on line buy and print out 12 months travel insurance today.wether it would be valid or not doesn't matter,it's just to please immigration.anyway insureandgo.co.uk will do 12 months basic travel insurance for a 68yr old for 4,000b.for me @55 yr it's £40.99.there sorted out from my desk in the jungle.

My point is that it is not possible for someone over a certain age to get insurance policy, whether single trip or multi for any period longer than 6 months originating in the UK. So I just tested online insureandgo. Age 68, one year policy Jan 1-Dec 31. No go.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, swissie said:

On all those Long-term visa's I read "NON-IMMIGRANT". So we are not Immigrants and not Tourists. And Tourists are not Immigrants. My father is not my mother.
We are Aliens!
Why not simplify and issue a new class of long-term Visa: "Alien with sufficient ATM capabilities". If your Thai-Bank Balance never drops below 1 mill Baht, you can stay forever. Thai Bank will have software signalling Immigration when Balance is less than 1 mill Bht.
Can fire 95% of Immigration Officers putting them to better use. Like in the chronically understaffed massage parlors!

There is a difference. O-A visa gets a one-year stamp. Clearly long-term by definition ie may stay in the country for one year. Non-imm O visa, 90 day stamp, must leave country. So therefore not long term even though visa lasts 1 year and can be ME. (Non-Imm O comment notwithstanding possible conversion to extension, but then it really converts to something more like O-A)

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The effective going rate for self-insure has been calculated by some to be $150,000 accessible cash. Plenty of guys with a lot less than that.

 

3 hours ago, swissie said:

Most of them had it when they arrived.

Well maybe. But to work it has to be in a separate account and left alone. And not so many willing to put such a substantial sum to one side if they had it in the first place..... 'er, that is why people take out insurance! However, I for one am exposed by insurance policy not covering pre-existing conditions and question whether I have sufficient cash back-up in the event.

Edited December 25, 2018 by SheungWan

[HampiK]

I see many complain, that it's not possible to become cover or that they will have so many exclusion. But I guess some of this are probably the same which told with younger age, they are healthy and not need cover. There is the problem for some… you need to take insurance BEFORE problems occur.

 

Then we have the people who think because they are able to pay in the last few years some minor things like 100K or 200K they have enough money for self insurance! But also here I guess some of this self insurance person would not have the money if something bigger happens (like stay a few days in ICU) which then maybe could be more than a million baht. 

 

For retired, who just move to Thailand in retire age (over 60 years) there I see a real problem, if they come from a country with own Insurance. So they now have to start looking for an International Insurance which can be difficult if there are already some existing conditions. I only know from swiss you even can take some swiss insurances so the preexisting condition will still be paid, "but" it is extremely expensive compared to some good international ones… and I am not sure if this only works, when you had this insurances before leaving the country already. Also don't know how this is for other countries.

 

 

[happy chappie]

Another thought on this is if I enter the country as a tourist with insurance do I need all the small print translated into Thai by an official translator to make sure my policy covers me for that trip.

[happy chappie]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

My point is that it is not possible for someone over a certain age to get insurance policy, whether single trip or multi for any period longer than 6 months originating in the UK. So I just tested online insureandgo. Age 68, one year policy Jan 1-Dec 31. No go.

12 month multi trip excluding,us,Canada and Caribbean aged 70yr

[marcusarelus]

5 hours ago, allen303 said:

What hospital here in Thailand will direct bill? I have Tricare, VA and just started Medicare AB. Did 4 days in a Bangkok hospital in private room. Hospital asked do I have insurance, told them Tricare, no problem. Paid first two days with CC. Then paid last two days with CC upon check out. The hospital gave me a itemized bill in English. Sent to Tricare over seas, 19 days later received approx. 80% back in my US Wells Fargo checking account. No complaints. Very good service ( with two sponge baths a day by two nice little ladies ). But would be interested in a hospital that does direct billing. 

http://www.vfwd5pacific.org/download/hospitals-who-may-except-tricare-or-fmp-11-jan-2017-.pdf

[hotchilli]

On 12/23/2018 at 8:45 PM, anterian said:

I thought that was the basic point of the 800 kBaht, to show that one could cover medical expenses. 

800,000 baht would just about cover a tooth extraction for a foreigner.

[Mango Bob]

I have Tricare for Life Overseas and Bumrungrad Hospital will direct bill.  Just let the hospital know before being admitted and they will verify you are eligible with JUSMAGTHAI.  But you can not have a single room only a double.   The hospital will charge you at the time of release 25% of the bill  They will file the claim for you.  But any medicines you are taking home must be paid on another claim.  No the inpatient claim.

[NCC1701A]

2 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

but medical and life policies are a waste of money.

my business partner got leukemia at 40 years of age which is a catastrophic illness. his medical bills were 1.1 million US dollars. he almost died but the doctors in the USA saved his life. Insurance paid for all of it. most people can't afford to fund catastrophic illness or accidents.

Edited December 25, 2018 by NCC1701A

[happy chappie]

44 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

my business partner got leukemia at 40 years of age which is a catastrophic illness. his medical bills were 1.1 million US dollars. he almost died but the doctors in the USA saved his life. Insurance paid for all of it. most people can't afford to fund catastrophic illness or accidents.

Most Brits plan on jumping on a plane as did one of my mates the other month.stents and double bypass £0

[flbkk]

I'm 65, on new retirement visa. After lots of consideration, I kept USA Medicare and supplement that allows me to get care in any US state, less deductible. It only covers overseas for emergencies for first 60 days of a trip. I found travel insurance for a whole year prohibitively expensive, as well as international insurance guaranteed renewable. Most travel and Thai domestic carriers are rife with complaints of them refusing to pay claims. Also Thai insurance has right to not renew or raise rates as they with. I got Thai Aetna, formerly Bupa. About $24,000/year for very low limits, had to be paid all up front. They are in network with most good Thai hospitals (is that an oxymoron?), less complaints about them not paying claims. The accident and injury coverage is so low as to be meaningless and half coverage for motorcycle injuries. Two reasons I did it: 1)Maybe if I'm sick or injured I'll pay excess at insurance contracted rate instead of full hospital price, and 2)I'll avoid claims, MAYBE they will renew at rate I'm willing to pay, in case government starts to require it. I think I did see something on the Elite Visa site (I don't have that) about a site for cheap cover.

[stanleycoin]

1 hour ago, happy chappie said:

Another thought on this is if I enter the country as a tourist with insurance do I need all the small print translated into Thai by an official translator to make sure my policy covers me for that trip.

That maybe the time,  when they roll out the rip off,  Thai insurance on everyone, ( you buy Falang or get back on aeroplane now )

Feel the love. ????

[Kerryd]

On 12/23/2018 at 8:45 PM, anterian said:

I thought that was the basic point of the 800 kBaht, to show that one could cover medical expenses. 

Wrong.
The 800k is meant to be the money you spend over the course of the next year to live in Thailand. They expect you will use that to pay for your accommodations, utilities, food, clothing, entertainment and whatever other expenses you'd normally pay over the course of a year.

Some of us are able to put that 800k in the bank and never touch it. For some (like me) it could be used for a medical emergency if need be, or any other kind of emergency. It's nice to have that money sitting there "just in case". However, Immigration isn't going to consider that as "medical" coverage because they expect it to be spent (and therefore no longer available).

 

17 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I thought the basic point of the 800k Baht was to show one had enough money to live on for the coming year!

Yes. Despite the (possibly arcane) method they used to come up with that figure, it is expected (by Immigration) that you would spend that money over the course of the next year and top it up 3 months before the next extension. That is why they won't consider "long term" investments (or things like RRSPs and 401ks) as proof of funds because the money in those investments is not available to be spent on day to day living expenses in Thailand.
 

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

800,000 baht would just about cover a tooth extraction for a foreigner.

Not even remotely accurate.
I've had a lot of dental work done in Thailand, including extractions (molars), root canals, implants, crowns and dentures, all at a fraction of what it would cost "back home". 
 

I recall one year I had a root canal and a filling done at a small shop on South Pattaya Road. Total cost (including x-ray) was about 6,000 baht. Back in Canada, at the same time, a root canal alone would have cost $1,800 Cdn (about 54,000 baht at the time).

I did a series of other work at a different place on Soi Khao Noi, including root canals, implants and crowns. Total bill came to under 90,000 baht (about $3,000 Cdn). I remember that as I found out later I could have claimed it under the company medical plan (but didn't even try as I had "elected" to have the work done so didn't think it was covered). I had a new upper denture made that was also quite cheap (price-wise) and very good quality - as evidenced by the fact I'm still using it 8 years later (and don't need any "Poly Grip" type crap to keep it in place).

I also had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff and the total cost of that (including 2 nights hospital stay, removing a bone spur in the shoulder joint, repairing the rotator cuff and the out patient costs) was under 300,000 baht. 

So yes, having the 800k in the bank as a "back up" is handy - assuming you can access it when needed (hard to do if you are in unconscious in an ICU or in a coma and don't have a relative who has access to your money though - which is why I also have health and accident insurance).

 

[fforest1]

1 minute ago, stanleycoin said:

That maybe the time,  when they roll out the rip off,  Thai insurance on everyone, ( you buy Falang or get back on aeroplane now )

Feel the love. ????

Folks no need for insurance or even visas ever....Just sneak across the border with the day labor Cambodians......Trade in hoop jumping for border jumping...lol

[garyk]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

my business partner got leukemia at 40 years of age which is a catastrophic illness. his medical bills were 1.1 million US dollars. he almost died but the doctors in the USA saved his life. Insurance paid for all of it. most people can't afford to fund catastrophic illness or accidents.

I keep a small home in America just for that kind of thing. Medicare and supplement plan has been a god send for me. 

When I get sick I high tail it back home. ????

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

My point is that it is not possible for someone over a certain age to get insurance policy, whether single trip or multi for any period longer than 6 months originating in the UK. So I just tested online insureandgo. Age 68, one year policy Jan 1-Dec 31. No go.

 

1 hour ago, happy chappie said:

12 month multi trip excluding,us,Canada and Caribbean aged 70yr

That annual multi-trip policy, you will find, limits any single trip within the 12 months to a limit of say 90 days. It does not cover you for a single trip of 365 days within that policy.

[stanleycoin]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

That annual multi-trip policy, you will find, limits any single trip within the 12 months to a limit of say 90 days. It does not cover you for a single trip of 365 days within that policy.

The Devil is always in the details.

Insurance companies never disappoint on this one.

I think there are many people that have no idea, that they are not fully covered by there insurance polices for what they do around the world,  this only become event to them when its time to make a clam. ouch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by stanleycoin

[bkk6060]

Until you are casually walking down the sidewalk and a motorbike who has been forced off the road drives up behind you and runs you over ( I saw this happen in Chiang Mai).

Good luck hopping on a flight to the US with broken legs and neck.

[happy chappie]

12 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

That annual multi-trip policy, you will find, limits any single trip within the 12 months to a limit of say 90 days. It does not cover you for a single trip of 365 days within that policy.

Yes and if you of read what I said before it is only to prove you have medical coverage but not worth the paper it's written on.it sole purpose is to keep immo happy.....why do you keep replying to what I post and can't understand at what I'm getting at.everyone else seems to have got the gist of it.

in fact I put you on to insure and go and you couldn't even sort out a quote which I then had to do.

Edited December 25, 2018 by happy chappie

[garyk]

29 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Until you are casually walking down the sidewalk and a motorbike who has been forced off the road drives up behind you and runs you over ( I saw this happen in Chiang Mai).

Good luck hopping on a flight to the US with broken legs and neck.

Depends on how much money you have!  If stupid enough to travel without funds then you will be in trouble. 

[d4291797]

Again for someone like myself, the only viable option at 72 is, if allowed, is to deposit the 440,000 in a bonded account.
Sorted then, as long as one has the funds.
Insurance quote for my age, 16000 Baht a month!
Equating to 192000 a year.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[d4291797]

Again for someone like myself, the only viable option at 72 is, if allowed, is to deposit the 440,000 in a bonded account.
Sorted then, as long as one has the funds.
Insurance quote for my age, 16000 Baht a month!
Equating to 192000 a year.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[JackThompson]

The only thing Thailand has to worry about is covering immediate-treatment for those w/o the cash - not long-term care.  The situations described above (lukemia vs moto-accident) reinforce this.  Once the person is stabilized, it's up to them to either pay or be put on the next flight home.

Edited December 25, 2018 by JackThompson

[Kerryd]

I'm looking at the paperwork I have from Bangkok Bank regarding my Health Insurance.

 

I am on the "PA 1st VIP" plan, which gives me 930,000 baht per visit for "in patient" care and 20,000 for "out patient" care, for about 21,000 per year. (Lol - just looked and it is exactly 21,000 per year.)
 

I was paying 27k per year but the bank asked my about my "out patient" activity and I told them I just pay for that stuff myself as it isn't worth the hassle to try and claim it. The bank then suggested I go to "Plan 2" which provides the same "in patient" level but a lower limit to the "out patient" level and is 6,000 baht a year cheaper.

 

(I also have an additional "accident" insurance policy which is only meant to provide additional coverage in the event of a motorcycle accident. Plus the full coverage I have for the Harley as well.)

 

I note on the bank paperwork that they have a "PA 1st Smart" plan (ages 16-65) as well as the "PA 1st VIP" plan (ages 16-65) and a "PA 1st Senior" plan (ages 50-100).
I have no idea what the coverage is for that or what the premiums would be, but it may be something to ask about the next time you are at the bank (as I'm guessing most Thai banks have similar plans and coverage for similar costs, just with different plan names.)

Most insurers (note I did not say "all") won't cover pre-existing problems but that doesn't mean they won't insure you - it means that if you have a condition (for example a liver problem or Ulcer or Hep C) and you end up in the hospital because of that condition, they won't cover you for treatment relating to that condition.

But if something else happens (like a heart attack or stroke that isn't related to the pre-exisiting condition) then you should still be covered.

Each case would be different and you'd have to talk to the insurer personally as I doubt anyone on here can give you a definitive (legal) answer that you could "take to the bank" (or lawyer) if need be.

Many insurers will also continue coverage so long as you had a policy with them before reaching a certain age so it could be worth getting a policy a year or two before the cut-off age.

 

I had to do a physical this year before the bank would approve the policy. I think that was because I screwed up and the policy lapsed (by 2 weeks). I thought it was on an "automatic" renewal and didn't understand the letter the insurer sent me. By the time I went to the bank, the policy had expired.

 

The good news was, they said I needed to do the physical and the bank was paying for it ! They asked me where I normally go and I told them "Bangkok Pattaya Hospital". They set up the appointment for me and a couple days later I showed up and while I was getting examined, a representative from the bank showed up. Good thing they had already taken my blood pressure as it surely went up after I saw her !
After the doctor and nurses were done with me, the nice lady from the bank took the invoice and paid it.  A couple days my new insurance card and booklet arrived.

Free physical and I'm covered for another year ! (Apparently I'm healthy enough to be covered so that is a bonus as well !

(I thought they would pick a hospital or clinic that they had an arrangement with to do the physicals. I was kind of expecting them to tell me where I was going to have to go to do it, but instead they asked me which hospital I wanted to use. As I normally use BPH and they have me in their database, that was the best choice for me though by far not the cheapest for the bank. Didn't phase them a bit.)

And, as it says in the OP, as (currently) discussed, if you already have a plan (with whoever) that meets the minimum standard they plan on using, you will be "grandfathered" and not have to get a new plan.
However, I would expect that they will provide a list of healthcare insurers that they will accept as "legitimate" providers so those of you thinking of trying to scam them by buying an online policy for $20 from the "Numba 1 Heth Care Sorvice of Moldavia" will probably find out it wasn't worth the time it took to fill out the online application.
(I also expect a deluge of threads from people looking for ways around the requirement, using "agents" or "shady" healthcare providers like I just noted - which doesn't actually exist in case any of you were thinking of checking.)

And you can pretty much guarantee that when they say "one-year Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (Long Stay)", they mean ALL "1 year" Visas and "extensions" so you should prepare for that now as I highly doubt that they will make any special exceptions for you regardless of your individual situation. (And yes, I suspect it will include all "Elite" cards as well regardless of cost.)

I know that won't stop all those people who think they should be exempt because of (insert 10,000 different excuses here) but you can't say you weren't warned ! 

It remains to be seen if this survives the election of course, or if it dies a quiet death as the new government (and new ministers) set a different agenda and possibly different priorities.
If it gets to Cabinet before the election, it will no doubt be approved pretty much on the spot (I'm totally guessing but it does seems like something they'd just rubber stamp and move on from without a lot of debate).

If the election happens first, we may never hear of this again. Or not for quite some time (one would hope). Hard to say.
 

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Kerryd
Because I am AWESOME !

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I'm looking at the paperwork I have from Bangkok Bank regarding my Health Insurance.

 

I am on the "PA 1st VIP" plan, which gives me 930,000 baht per visit for "in patient" care and 20,000 for "out patient" care, for about 21,000 per year. (Lol - just looked and it is exactly 21,000 per year.)
 

I was paying 27k per year but the bank asked my about my "out patient" activity and I told them I just pay for that stuff myself as it isn't worth the hassle to try and claim it. The bank then suggested I go to "Plan 2" which provides the same "in patient" level but a lower limit to the "out patient" level and is 6,000 baht a year cheaper.

 

(I also have an additional "accident" insurance policy which is only meant to provide additional coverage in the event of a motorcycle accident. Plus the full coverage I have for the Harley as well.)

 

I note on the bank paperwork that they have a "PA 1st Smart" plan (ages 16-65) as well as the "PA 1st VIP" plan (ages 16-65) and a "PA 1st Senior" plan (ages 50-100).
I have no idea what the coverage is for that or what the premiums would be, but it may be something to ask about the next time you are at the bank (as I'm guessing most Thai banks have similar plans and coverage for similar costs, just with different plan names.)

Most insurers (note I did not say "all") won't cover pre-existing problems but that doesn't mean they won't insure you - it means that if you have a condition (for example a liver problem or Ulcer or Hep C) and you end up in the hospital because of that condition, they won't cover you for treatment relating to that condition.

But if something else happens (like a heart attack or stroke that isn't related to the pre-exisiting condition) then you should still be covered.

Each case would be different and you'd have to talk to the insurer personally as I doubt anyone on here can give you a definitive (legal) answer that you could "take to the bank" (or lawyer) if need be.

Many insurers will also continue coverage so long as you had a policy with them before reaching a certain age so it could be worth getting a policy a year or two before the cut-off age.

 

I had to do a physical this year before the bank would approve the policy. I think that was because I screwed up and the policy lapsed (by 2 weeks). I thought it was on an "automatic" renewal and didn't understand the letter the insurer sent me. By the time I went to the bank, the policy had expired.

 

The good news was, they said I needed to do the physical and the bank was paying for it ! They asked me where I normally go and I told them "Bangkok Pattaya Hospital". They set up the appointment for me and a couple days later I showed up and while I was getting examined, a representative from the bank showed up. Good thing they had already taken my blood pressure as it surely went up after I saw her !
After the doctor and nurses were done with me, the nice lady from the bank took the invoice and paid it.  A couple days my new insurance card and booklet arrived.

Free physical and I'm covered for another year ! (Apparently I'm healthy enough to be covered so that is a bonus as well !

(I thought they would pick a hospital or clinic that they had an arrangement with to do the physicals. I was kind of expecting them to tell me where I was going to have to go to do it, but instead they asked me which hospital I wanted to use. As I normally use BPH and they have me in their database, that was the best choice for me though by far not the cheapest for the bank. Didn't phase them a bit.)

And, as it says in the OP, as (currently) discussed, if you already have a plan (with whoever) that meets the minimum standard they plan on using, you will be "grandfathered" and not have to get a new plan.
However, I would expect that they will provide a list of healthcare insurers that they will accept as "legitimate" providers so those of you thinking of trying to scam them by buying an online policy for $20 from the "Numba 1 Heth Care Sorvice of Moldavia" will probably find out it wasn't worth the time it took to fill out the online application.
(I also expect a deluge of threads from people looking for ways around the requirement, using "agents" or "shady" healthcare providers like I just noted - which doesn't actually exist in case any of you were thinking of checking.)

And you can pretty much guarantee that when they say "one-year Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (Long Stay)", they mean ALL "1 year" Visas and "extensions" so you should prepare for that now as I highly doubt that they will make any special exceptions for you regardless of your individual situation.

I know that won't stop all those people who think they should be exempt because of (insert 10,000 different excuses here) but you can't say you weren't warned ! 

It remains to be seen if this survives the election of course, or if it dies a quiet death as the new government (and new ministers) set a different agenda and possibly different priorities.
If it gets to Cabinet before the election, it will no doubt be approved pretty much on the spot (I'm totally guessing but it does seems like something they'd just rubber stamp and move on from without a lot of debate).

If the election happens first, we may never hear of this again. Or not for quite some time (one would hope). Hard to say.
 

 

PA = Personal Accident. PA plans  cover you only for injuries resulting from an accident. Not for illness. The Bangkok Bank PA 1st VIP plan also covers only up to 150,000 baht. Low cover cap is typical of PA policies in Thailand,.

 

Sounds like you have something other than (or in addition to) the  PA 1st VIP plan.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/Non-Life-Insurance/PA-1st/PA-1st-VIP

[Sheryl]

32 minutes ago, d4291797 said:

Again for someone like myself, the only viable option at 72 is, if allowed, is to deposit the 440,000 in a bonded account.
Sorted then, as long as one has the funds.
Insurance quote for my age, 16000 Baht a month!
Equating to 192000 a year.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

There are less expensive options. You can get a good policy for half that amount. Contact a broker.

[jesimps]

11 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

I don't think so, but more probably they meant the Non-Immigrant Visa O-X (vLong Stay) : 5 years and a very similar health insurance requirement.

 

Why assuming that?

The original article clearly states it is about the Non-Immigrant Visa O-A (Long Stay),

and nowhere it suggests it could be extended to Extensions.

 

Same. It's for Visa O-A, in your country, not for Extension in Thailand.

 

 

Which would bear out what the immigration officer told the wife of my friend, my German mate seems quite confident now, whereas before he was fair panicking. Also, as you point out the original article does say O-A long stay visa.

[jesimps]

10 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Because there would be even worse issues having to provide evidence of sufficient financial resources to cover serious medical expenditure.

Not as big an issue as having to shell out hundreds of thousands a year for insurance. At least providing evidence of resources means you hold on to those resources until you need them. There's no wasted money, especially for someone who keeps in trim and has a good lifestyle. Don't forget, the reason insurance is so high is because you're subsidising the people who use it most. But this is all conjecture, we'll either have to do what the Thais demand or leave. Simple as that.