Update: New Thai immigration rules for income!

[david555]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

"Verified" always meant you swore to it under penalty of perjury / going to prison in your passport-country (for USA/AU), or that the embassy-personnel had reviewed documents indicating the income existed (UK) - until Thai-immigration moved the goalposts in a discussion which evidently occurred with consulate personnel in May, 2018. 

 

The UK and USA embassy personnel have maintained that the letters will still be valid for 6 months from issuance - but, as has always been the case (but more commonly occurring recently), the IO can ask for additional documentation.

 

The US Consul stated (recent interview) that the combo method would continue.  Let's hope what he saw and/or was told is correct, in that respect (doesn't help me personally, but could be critical for many others).

Just stating that never before the wording on the affidavit had verified on it , and now requested seems by Immigration , only small word ,but with much consequences in it for refusal ...herby an example from my Embassy , who still declare to deliver , but if the verified would be on it I doubt...so can become rejected …. , lucky I use 800 k for years already now

BLANCO AFFIDAVIT.pdf

Edited January 5, 2019 by david555

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, JackThompson said:

"Verified" always meant you swore to it under penalty of perjury / going to prison in your passport-country (for USA/AU), or that the embassy-personnel had reviewed documents indicating the income existed (UK) - until Thai-immigration moved the goalposts in a discussion which evidently occurred with consulate personnel in May, 2018. 

 

The UK and USA embassy personnel have maintained that the letters will still be valid for 6 months from issuance - but, as has always been the case (but more commonly occurring recently), the IO can ask for additional documentation.

 

The US Consul stated (recent interview) that the combo method would continue.  Let's hope what he saw and/or was told is correct, in that respect (doesn't help me personally, but could be critical for many others).

I have no doubt that he is correct in the fact it will continue to be an option. What is lacking and is included in the second document, is how it will continue to work.

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The wisest move is for everyone to set up an automated xfer, or a reminder to manually do the xfer.  As pointed out above, even those using a "monthly paid" income source could wind up with 2 xfers one month, and zero the next. 

As the language (we have seen so far) does not have a "grace period" around months, this creates a situation which allows a bad-IO to put you over an agent-barrel, and a good-IO to possibly get heat from a supervisor if he is "overly reasonable." 

Crap as usual

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

46 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

I was at Bangkok Bank HQ on Thursday (3rd) morning and spoke with the manageress of the overseas deposit/exchange section about the new requirement and she said that TI has been in discussions with them and they are already preparing a letter that will meet TI requirements.

 

I hope folks here pay particular attention to this item above for monthly income applicants -- being the notion of a new and second letter from your local Thai bank that would supposedly confirm you've made the 12 required monthly transfers into your Thai bank account from an overseas source.

 

Assuming that's correct and really part of the direction given to local Immigration offices, that probably puts a stop to the speculation about being able to use a pile of a dozen bank credit advice letters, or a dozen months of ATM withdrawal receipts, or a dozen Transferwise receipts to satisfy Immigration.

 

The indication seems to be, they won't want to see any of those things. They'll only want to see a single letter from your Thai bank verifying that you had 12 monthly incoming deposits to your Thai bank account during the past year that meet the 40K or 65K requirement.

 

[Pattaya46]

44 minutes ago, david555 said:

This phrase could mean trouble for those Embassy's who still give the letter out  " Letter from applicant’s Embassy confirming that applicant has a verified income of ……)

I never saw this "verified" on the Embassy letter when I used it first year of my RE. extension  (now the 800k method) This could give surprises....

This has been discussed many times. Nothing new.

The Bangkok Immigration website specifies "verify" for years :

"2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
  -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month."

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Pattaya46

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

4 hours ago, sumrit said:

And I suspect that banning all use of agents to assist in obtaining extensions, whether via income or money in the bank options would weed out many. many, many more people who have been lying and cheating to stay in Thailand.

And who will be shooting that Golden Goose?

It would take a very brave man.  Foolish might be a better word, given how many well-connected people "in the system" would hold ill will towards them, as their lives - built on that cash-flow - literally fell apart.  And then there would be the mass-exodus of farangs, and that damage occurring all at once, rather than peeling us off piece-meal. 

 

They did implement a "no fixer" policy in the PI, so it can be done.  But, as it wasn't hard to stay in the PI per the official rules, this only had positive effects for foreigners.

[MikeOKitches]

33 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

For use at what specific Immigration office?

Thanks for the question. I plan to use my November 30, 2018 income affidavit (letter) in March 2019 for my proposed Retirement Visa renewal at the Thai Immigration office located in Bangkok at Chaengwattana. 

[david555]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

This has been discussed many times. Nothing new. The Bangkok Immigration website specifies "verify" for years.

"2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
     -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month.

 

The letter I used first time I copied it and just checked it , the stamp and seal is in a sticker shape on it , but only declaring my signature on the affidavit is genuine and other blabla bla , but not the wording verified on it …. so any I.O  can jump on that missing word righteous to reject the letter , be careful those are using it after the 6 month's grace period

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, MikeOKitches said:

Thanks for the question. I plan to use my November 30, 2018 income affidavit (letter) in March 2019 for my proposed Retirement Visa renewal at the Thai Immigration office located in Bangkok at Chaengwattana. 

 

There's every indication that Chaengwattana BKK is and will honor the 6 month validity of income letters.

 

But this is Thai Immigration and we're in somewhat uncharted waters, so I'd pay close attention to member reports coming out of CW this month and next, just to be sure.

 

 

[Pattaya46]

58 minutes ago, Pib said:

Well, I expect this new letter will probably take a few days to generate since it's would require research on the bank's part since for example to get 12 month statement now the bank normally tells you to come back in a few days after ordering it.

You probably are right here.

I remember a KasikornBank employee telling me they had direct access only to your operations of the last 6 months.

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And of course, there's the BIGGER underlying issue of just WHY the US, UK Australian and Danish embassies (apparently) are the ONLY ones to have gotten out of the income letters business, while apparently most all of the other countries in the world with embassies and citizens in Thailand are still issuing them in the normal manner, apparently without any more proof that they ever provided in the past?

I expect more will stop issuing income letters after TI publishes new guidance regarding the monthly transfer requirement.  That way the embassy is no longer on the hook signing a letter that their citizen truly has the income he/she states and which the embassy can't truly verify. 

 

Plus the embassy can say if you truly have the monthly income you say you do and you want to go the monthly income method, then just transfer the req'd amount to Thailand on a monthly basis since TI specifically states that is acceptable. 

 

And I don't think any loss of fee income from issuing the letter is a big factor with embassies. 

 

Yea, I think more embassies will be getting out of the income letter issuing business in 2019.

[david555]

6 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

You probably are right here.

I remember a KasikornBank employee telling me they had direct access only to your operations of the last 6 months.

For a F.E.T or similar  the Kasikorn bank  lady at main branch Pattaya Klang second  floor who do those said max 7 years only total KK is keeping records, longer I must keep my own doc. from kk bank

Edited January 5, 2019 by david555

[MikeOKitches]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's every indication that Chaengwattana BKK is and will honor the 6 month validity of income letters.

 

But this is Thai Immigration and we're in somewhat uncharted waters, so I'd pay close attention to member reports coming out of CW this month and next, just to be sure.

 

 

Thank you for your prompt reply back to me. I will certainly monitor the site here for member reports on this subject to guide me on what I can expect. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

You probably are right here.

I remember a KasikornBank employee telling me they had direct access only to your operations of the last 6 months.

 

Trying to get anything out of a local Thai bank branch going back more than 6 months always seems to be a PAIN and/or near impossible, without them having to kick the issue off to the bank's HQ...

 

Will be interested to see just how the procedure for this new kind of 12-months of foreign deposits confirmation letter is going to work at the different Thai banking companies.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea, I think more embassies will be getting out of the income letter issuing business in 2019.

 

Possible, but my bet will be, most will continue what they've been doing all along -- unless Thai Immigration somehow forces them out of it. Be interested to see whose forecast will turn out to be right as the year progresses.

 

When this all began, I was working from the assumption that it was Thai Immigration that was the moving party here, in legal speak. But as the past few months have played out, I've come more and more to the view that it actually was our own embassies that folded their cards when they didn't really have to. Why remains unclear.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Suradit69]

59 minutes ago, david555 said:

I never saw this "verified" on the Embassy letter when I used it

No on the US form you, the applicant, affirm your address in Thailand and

 

Quote

I also affirm that I receive USD $ ________________ every month from the United States Government and/or other sources.  I am applying for a Thai visa/ or extension of a current Thai visa and any assistance you can provide in this request will be greatly appreciated. 

Nothing to suggest that anyone has verified the income claimed.

[JackThompson]

26 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Related to the OP exactly how?

As per usual tripe

22 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Crap as usual

Related to the post I replied to, which discussed an alternative to dealing with the increasing difficulties thrown up by immigration to honest applicants.  But, I don't blame you for not reading all 24 prior pages where the context is presented - there are many tangents which may not pertain to your situation / concerns.

 

Others have replied to this issue in this thread also, so be sure to give them your helpful advice - perhaps something akin to, "Just trust that your IO will be honest, and therefore care that you are being honest, forthright, and have all the requirements met."  I tried that exactly twice, btw - but won't get fooled again.

[wobalt]

If you have the money 40k/65 k simply just do the transfer


Gesendet von iPhone mit Thaivisa Connect

[Sheryl]

You probably are right here.

I remember a KasikornBank employee telling me they had direct access only to your operations of the last 6 months.

Thst seemd odd since you can see back to 12 months (but no further) on their online banking.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Thst seemd ofd since you can see back to 12 months (but no further) on their online banking.

You made me doubt...

So I connected on KasikornBank site, and : 6 months only 

 

 

[Ebumbu]

If it turns out to be true, good news for me. I'm good to go. 

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

You made me doubt...

So I connected on KasikornBank site, and : 6 months only 

 

 

 

SCB gave me a 1-year printout of deposits for 2018 for me to get last extension. No problem. 

[luckyluke]

22 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea, I think more embassies will be getting out of the income letter issuing business in 2019.

Or than maybe not. For the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya which issue a Letter of Income to Austrians,Belgians,Dutch,Germans, Luxemburgers it is an important source of income for The Consul-General and his secretary ( Now Vice-Consul ).

About 1750 ThB per letter.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

You made me doubt...

So I connected on KasikornBank site, and : 6 months only 

 

 

 

Same for BKKB... 6 months only:

 

[Skeptic7]

14 hours ago, amexpat said:

I didn't watch the video because:

 

I used Transferwise last week. Money from the USA hit my BKK account the next day.

 

The Bangkok Bank account statement identifies it as "International Transfer".

 

Me too. My TransferWise (USD) to Bangkok Bank Acct (THB) are always designated "International Transfer". 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Or than maybe not. For the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya which issue a Letter of Income to Austrians,Belgians,Dutch,Germans, Luxemburgers it is an important source of income for The Consul-General and his secretary ( Now Vice-Consul ).

About 1750 ThB per letter.

 

Curious that Thai Immigration is accepting income letters from a consulate other than the country of the applicant... 

 

And if that's going to be kosher, why is it just limited to those particular 3rd party  countries?   Why not the neighboring Swiss, or Czechs or Italians, etc etc?

 

[skatewash]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Same for BKKB... 6 months only:

 

And same 6 month limit for Krungsri online banking.

[david555]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Curious that Thai Immigration is accepting income letters from a consulate other than the country of the applicant... 

 

And if that's going to be kosher, why is it just limited to those particular 3rd party  countries?   Why not the neighboring Swiss, or Czechs or Italians, etc etc?

 

Because E.U. or  Schengen probably

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Or than maybe not. For the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya which issue a Letter of Income to Austrians,Belgians,Dutch,Germans, Luxemburgers it is an important source of income for The Consul-General and his secretary ( Now Vice-Consul ).

About 1750 ThB per letter.

 

Maybe us Americans should petition the BKK Embassy of our Canadian neighbors to the north for some consular assistance?

 

Well, on second thought, our all-knowing, arrogant, unscrupulous "leader" probably has dashed any prospects of U.S. - Canadian cooperation on anything that's not automatically mutually beneficial for both sides.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, david555 said:

Because E.U. or  Schengen probably

 

Two of the three countries I mentioned above are also EU members (excluding Switzerland), and all three are Schengen members. So that doesn't really explain it.