Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum: poll

[Joinaman]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

I'm happy with the current arrangement ... the amounts are a small percentage of our GDP. We've lost more in economic potential since the vote ... and we'll lose even more with a hard Brexit ... so it's money well spent. If you voted leave you voted for the UK to be poorer ... we'll lose more than we save from membership fees. 

it seems a lot of people keep saying how much we will lose, how we will be much poorer, but never fully explain how they know this and never give us the figures to prove it either

[melvinmelvin]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Says the Norwegian!

yes,

but jeeez, how can you live a decent life in London with 50 quid/day,

the yogi chap said he was from London

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

it seems a lot of people keep saying how much we will lose, how we will be much poorer, but never fully explain how they know this and never give us the figures to prove it either

All of that has been said multiple times. Perhaps some folks have not paid attention? Or perhaps some people simply want to play dump in order to try to make a weak point?

 

I don't really care which one it is. I'm quite confident these people have nothing to offer to the discussion. 

[Grouse]

 

Corbyn is useless. Give the man a wheelbarrow!

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

it seems a lot of people keep saying how much we will lose, how we will be much poorer, but never fully explain how they know this and never give us the figures to prove it either

 

watch what people post. That way you will know. I'm pro EU on balance, but listen to all views 

 

There are no Pro Brexit experts; obviously!

[tomacht8]

47 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

it seems a lot of people keep saying how much we will lose, how we will be much poorer, but never fully explain how they know this and never give us the figures to prove it either

Think of a producer.
You have a good product.
But your product can easily be copied by others.
Consumers are price sensitive.
In order to have a competitive price you need large quantities, which leads to a decrease of your costs per part (Fixed costs degression effect).
You get even more discounts, the more you buy from your suppliers (variable costs decrease per piece).
Furthermore, the higher the production quantities are in your production, the less learning effects costs you have (error-free production reduction cost effect).
Less waste in the production and full utilization of the machines.
That's production theory.
If you look at the market now, you need a big market to sell your products.
But if the market is limited from over 500 million to 65 million buyers, many companies can no longer realize these cost benefits of mass production.
And if you then add in tariffs and quotas (WTO), your product will be more expensive in global competition.

Edited January 9, 2019 by tomacht8

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

 

No not today. When they were building the Jubilee Line 40 years ago they got at least 70 quid a day tax paid. That was great money back then. They were getting 350 quid a week for 5 days and more if they worked 7 days which they often did as it had to be built as quickly as possible.

 

People work for 50 /80 quid a day all over the UK but not building underground tunnels. 80 quid a day is 400 quid a week and if it's in your hand it's not bad money. 250 quid a week is not to be sneezed at especially if you're skint and can't get anything better. You could not afford to have holidays in Thailand on it but it's better than a kick in the arse.

 

I'd imagine a tunneler today could possibly be looking at 1,000 quid a week but as far as I know no tunnels are being built at present in London which is where you normally get the highest wages in the UK.

 

thank you yogI100, very good to have some reasoned blue collar input here

 

leave tunnelers aside,

you say that people work for 50/80 quid day all over UK

dunno, but to me this looks appalling

 

and the masses continue to vote Tory to no end - weird weird weird weird weird

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

 

No not today. When they were building the Jubilee Line 40 years ago they got at least 70 quid a day tax paid. That was great money back then. They were getting 350 quid a week for 5 days and more if they worked 7 days which they often did as it had to be built as quickly as possible.

 

People work for 50 /80 quid a day all over the UK but not building underground tunnels. 80 quid a day is 400 quid a week and if it's in your hand it's not bad money. 250 quid a week is not to be sneezed at especially if you're skint and can't get anything better. You could not afford to have holidays in Thailand on it but it's better than a kick in the arse.

 

I'd imagine a tunneler today could possibly be looking at 1,000 quid a week but as far as I know no tunnels are being built at present in London which is where you normally get the highest wages in the UK.

If you only get 50 pounds a day, you have to stop pushing a wheelbarrow and learn how to drive an excavator (bagger).

Edited January 9, 2019 by tomacht8

[melvinmelvin]

10 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

If you only get 50 pounds a day, you have to stop pushing a wheelbarrow and learn how to drive an excavator (bagger).

not funny

 

[tomacht8]

33 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

not funny

 

I am sorry.
But if your income situation is bad you have to move and look for something new or find alternative sources of income. To hope that politicians will improve your own income situation brings nothing. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by tomacht8

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

If you voted leave you voted for the UK to be poorer ... we'll lose more than we save from membership fees. 

There is no way you can say this with any certainty. It's all based on assumptions. Some sensible, some ludicrous. 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, bomber said:

the other 26 members dont seem to mind paying their membership,it must be a british thing,also none of them other 26 nations have an overseas aid budget the size of britains,it seems stopping this would be a better money saving idea than leaving the EU,you cannot educate pork????

That's because most of them receive more than they pay in... oink.????

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, keemapoot said:

What is hard for people to sometimes understand is just how complex and dependent supply chains are on existing FTAs, trade agreements, and particularly the EU. Take Airbus, for example, look the following supply chain, and think of how component cost changes that occur in Britain as a result of Brexit could make Airbus less competitive on the world markets, and could cause Airbus to avoid British suppliers entirely bypassing Filton and Broughton and having big negative impact on jobs and the economy of the UK.

 

They missed out the dunnies.

[CG1 Blue]

49 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Think of a producer.
You have a good product.
But your product can easily be copied by others.
Consumers are price sensitive.
In order to have a competitive price you need large quantities, which leads to a decrease of your costs per part (Fixed costs degression effect).
You get even more discounts, the more you buy from your suppliers (variable costs decrease per piece).
Furthermore, the higher the production quantities are in your production, the less learning effects costs you have (error-free production reduction cost effect).
Less waste in the production and full utilization of the machines.
That's production theory.
If you look at the market now, you need a big market to sell your products.
But if the market is limited from over 500 million to 65 million buyers, many companies can no longer realize these cost benefits of mass production.
And if you then add in tariffs and quotas (WTO), your product will be more expensive in global competition.

Again an assumption that we go from a market of 500 million to a market of 65 million once we leave the EU. We will have the economic tools and ability to become more competitive globally (including with EU member states) once we are outside the EU. It is wrong to suggest that we'll suddenly only be selling goods domestically after we leave.

 

Many goods from the UK are cheaper now due to the weaker pound. If (as the doom mongers suggest) the pound falls even further, those goods will be even more attractive, even with tariffs. 

 

Also, that market of 500 million people includes millions of people from relatively poor countries who don't buy many imported goods anyway. So that number, although accurate doesn't paint the whole picture. If the 27 member states were all like Germany economically, that would be different. 

 

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Joinaman said:

it seems a lot of people keep saying how much we will lose, how we will be much poorer, but never fully explain how they know this and never give us the figures to prove it either

If no one can tell you exactly how much, to the penny, then it can’t possibly be true, can it?

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That's because most of them receive more than they pay in... oink.????

You are right. You could even extend it to 'That's because everybody receive more than they pay in .. nurf'

 

Strength and services provided by community is not a zero sum game. That's why each individual one of us don't have our own fire departments or police forces.. That would be waste of resources when we can do some of these things together. 

[AlexRich]

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

There is no way you can say this with any certainty. It's all based on assumptions. Some sensible, some ludicrous. 

So everybody, however qualified, who states that Brexit leads to a poorer outcome is wrong? 

 

 

If we all wave the flag of England, and believe, we’ll all get a unicorn.

 

 

[elliss]

On 1/7/2019 at 11:13 PM, nontabury said:

The 2016 people’s referendum.

 

      Aka , as the vote of of the ill informed , uneducated , thanks  Tory  regime .

               Bring back Open University . 555

[tomacht8]

20 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Again an assumption that we go from a market of 500 million to a market of 65 million once we leave the EU. We will have the economic tools and ability to become more competitive globally (including with EU member states) once we are outside the EU. It is wrong to suggest that we'll suddenly only be selling goods domestically after we leave.

 

Many goods from the UK are cheaper now due to the weaker pound. If (as the doom mongers suggest) the pound falls even further, those goods will be even more attractive, even with tariffs. 

 

Also, that market of 500 million people includes millions of people from relatively poor countries who don't buy many imported goods anyway. So that number, although accurate doesn't paint the whole picture. If the 27 member states were all like Germany economically, that would be different. 

 

 

Only two thoughts:
1. The UK is not a resource rich land (mineral resources).
If a producer then has to shop globally with a weak Pound for production materials, that will increase the cost per part.
2. If the sales market builds additional barriers, - and the EU protects itself against e.g. cheap products from China -, a mass producer (here the big food companies, car, pharmacy or chemistry) - price technology can not keep up.
As for the producers in the UK in particular: Whether Airbus, a car manufacturer or who always wants to sell physical products in the EU will be charged with additional quotas and duties. Furthermore, the administrative burden in the European Economic Area is increasing.
Again, there are price increase effects. If the UK believes that all products can then be sold at manufacturing cost, aka no profit for the market players, that certainly does not help the producing UK substance.

Edited January 9, 2019 by tomacht8

[beautifulthailand99]

Many thanks to our sovereign Parliament for bringing Remain to bear in the final analysis. Whose remoaning now.......fingers crossed we are nearly there now.  2 million dead since the last vote and two million youngsters have come of voting age. It's not about winning the battle but winning the war. #whatareyougoingtodoaboutit.......

[nauseus]

26 minutes ago, oilinki said:

You are right. You could even extend it to 'That's because everybody receive more than they pay in .. nurf'

 

Strength and services provided by community is not a zero sum game. That's why each individual one of us don't have our own fire departments or police forces.. That would be waste of resources when we can do some of these things together. 

No extension, the UK is a net donor of money and has been for decades. That's it. Of course being an island nation we can't call the Barcelona Fire Brigade out to save us all in time either. 

 

So not much benefit for us financially, is there?

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Many thanks to our sovereign Parliament for bringing Remain to bear in the final analysis. Whose remoaning now.......fingers crossed we are nearly there now.  2 million dead since the last vote and two million youngsters have come of voting age. It's not about winning the battle but winning the war. #whatareyougoingtodoaboutit.......

Dead morbid again. What a misery guts.

[bristolboy]

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No extension, the UK is a net donor of money and has been for decades. That's it. Of course being an island nation we can't call the Barcelona Fire Brigade out to save us all in time either. 

 

So not much benefit for us financially, is there?

Because 10 billion quid is such a huge number in relation to the British economy. How economically underdeveloped do you believe the UK is?

[baboon]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

Do I think JRM is a nice man? Yes I do.

Fair enough, Bill. But I warned you about Prayuth and I told you this time last year that Trump's Korean war would not happen. You cannot deny I was correct, not that I am trying to score points from you.

But please! I respect your view that we should leave the EU. However, I caution you against standing behind Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Gove et al. They are nothing but scoundrels, wreckers, liars...

 

I am well aware we do not share the same politics, but I urge you to take into serious consideration my point of view.

[beautifulthailand99]

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Dead morbid again. What a misery guts.

You'll still be moaning when we get the 50 baht pound again. Remember that - the day before 'Independence day'. 

[baboon]

20 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

You'll still be moaning when we get the 50 baht pound again. Remember that - the day before 'Independence day'. 

Take that up with him as and when it actually happens. In the meantime I would suggest you don't hold your breath and hover over the keyboard..

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

You mean the League of Empire Loyalists led by G K Chesterton, who split off from the British Union of Fascists (BUF).

 

7 hours ago, yogi100 said:

I know what I mean. I'm not sure that you do.

The LEL was led by A K Chesterton.

G K Chesterton would have had a bit of a problem leading the LEL which was founded in 1954.

GK had died in 1936. Eighteen years earlier!

Indeed, GK Chesterton was just a nasty anti-Semite. Must try not to confuse with his second cousin AK Chesterton who was the former member of the British Union of Fascists and League of Empire Loyalists and also not forgetting his membership of the National Front. Unpleasant individuals both of them. Heroes to some Hard Brexiteers though and that tells you something.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

So everybody, however qualified, who states that Brexit leads to a poorer outcome is wrong? 

 

 

If we all wave the flag of England, and believe, we’ll all get a unicorn.

 

 

Anybody (no matter how qualified) stating as fact that Brexit leads to a poorer outcome is naïve at best, blinkered perhaps, or at worst pushing their agenda. As I've already explained, it's impossible to know where the UK or the EU will be in 5 years time, let alone 10 or 20 years time. 

 

You're talking about worst case scenarios. Already most of the financial services companies in London have contingency plans in place for no deal which will ensure they can carry on with minimal or no impact. And they've done this without moving a material number of staff to EU locations. This is despite earlier predictions of an exodus from the City. 

[beautifulthailand99]

8 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Anybody (no matter how qualified) stating as fact that Brexit leads to a poorer outcome is naïve at best, blinkered perhaps, or at worst pushing their agenda. As I've already explained, it's impossible to know where the UK or the EU will be in 5 years time, let alone 10 or 20 years time. 

 

You're talking about worst case scenarios. Already most of the financial services companies in London have contingency plans in place for no deal which will ensure they can carry on with minimal or no impact. And they've done this without moving a material number of staff to EU locations. This is despite earlier predictions of an exodus from the City. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You're talking about worst case scenarios. Already most of the financial services companies in London have contingency plans in place for no deal which will ensure they can carry on with minimal or no impact. And they've done this without moving a material number of staff to EU locations. This is despite earlier predictions of an exodus from the City. 

Yes, financial services companies have contingency plans and those plans include moving assets and people to remaining EU. 

 

 

Quote

 

$1 Trillion Fleeing London Because of Brexit

Banks, insurers and money managers are planning to move about 800 billion pounds ($1 trillion) of assets from the U.K. to the rest of Europe as Brexit uncertainty takes its toll, according to a survey conducted by EY.

 

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-07/brexit-spurs-1-trillion-asset-moves-to-eu-from-london-ey-says?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business