Kasikorn Bank can't confirm UK pension comes from abroad?

[trd]

It's the confirmation letter from the bank that counts which supports the statement. Immigration won't accept anything else.

[sometimewoodworker]

29 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

35 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

They have already detailed what is acceptable
 
and OAJS's idea is unlikely to be accepted.
 
bank letter + 12 month statement = 30 ~ 60 seconds to check, IO accepted 
the suggested method above very much longer, IO says "where is the bank letter and statement, come back when you have them, Next please"

But they don't understand the complexities of transfers coming in from abroad from various sources. Instructions are too simplistic

They don't have to understand the way you want. 

You want an extension, you have to do it the way they want.

 

its simplistic because it is simple!

Immigration likes simple.

it isn't the cheapest way but that's not their problem.

 

it's even more simple to put the 400k/800k in the bank.

Edited January 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

Won't be acceptable to immigration. Thier looking at the transfer code in your pass book to confirm it's an overseas payment and the bank to give you a letter confirming the payments came from overseas.

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Quote

People are using the wrong wording for what a bank will do. They certainly will not be confirming the income. It will only be a letter confirming the account is valid similar what they do for proof of money in a bank to prove the 400K/800k baht in the bank. Copies of a bank book stamped by the bank or a statement from the bank will be the proof the income has been brought into the country.

The above is from ubonjoe

[trd]

It's worth mentioning for those who don't know, that there's no obstacle in using foreign currency. I have a pound sterling foreign currency account (FCD) and I use that for immigration. The supporting letter from the bank confirms that the exchange rate from sterling to baht would take the balance above the 800k threshold. it's useful if you don't want to be in a position where you have to convert currency to baht just for immigration purposes.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, BestB said:

Whenever I transfer money from overseas into my kbank account , I always get remmitance email from kbank advising of international transfer, rate they applied and fees. Surely can use these emails , just print it. If you do not get it, might be easier to ask to have email notifications than to ask for confirmation letter or for them to change codes. 

You must have signed up specially for that. It is not routine for everyone.

 

But with it, as  long as the email clearly shows it as from Kasikorn, I expect it would suffice for a branch to issue the necessary letter.

[scubascuba3]

its simplistic because it is simple!

Clearly it isn't because lots of different bank transaction codes, processes, agents. They should work with the banks otherwise they are heading for chaos for the expats using income method

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

As I have commented on the latest mega-thread, I would have thought it possible to establish a trail for a TransferWise transfer from one’s home bank account to one’s Thai bank account, regardless of how it is coded at the Thai end, via (1) a home bank account statement indicating the initial debit to TransferWise, and (2) the TransferWise confirmation report which indicates the amount paid (equalling the home bank account debit) and, subsequently, the amount of the THB conversion plus details of the Thai bank account which is to be credited, for verification against the passbook in due course. Certainly it is my intention, when I eventually ask my bank for a certification letter, to arm myself with copies of relevant home bank account statements and TransferWise confirmation reports, in addition to my Thai bank passbook.

 

I think it may be expecting a lot to expect bank staff -- especially if an upcountry branch - to wade through all that and be comfortable giving a statement that funds came from abroad base on foreign financial documents which will nto be familiar to them in format (and indeed, if my branch is any indication, which they do nto have the English language capacity to understand).  IMO you'd be better off showing them the relevant credit advices or a letter from the receiving bank in Thailand, in Thai.

 

"Certification letter" is probably not the right term, it is a letter from the bank stating you have such and such an account with X balance as of X date and transferred funds into it from abroad as follows (dates, amounts).  Might be possible to skip the second part of that in cases where the bank book has codes indicating international transfer (Kasikorn does not) but personally I would not be surprised if they require bank letter regardless. Can't assume all IOs are familiar with these bank book codes, especially as they may vary from bank to bank.

[JAS21]

2 hours ago, trd said:

2 hours ago, JAS21 said:

I understand that a company called Revolut show exchange rates close to TransferWise ...I have no information how their transfers show ...may be worth looking into
 
This is gbp to thb ...

Transferwise gives you the mid rate and it doesn't change after you made the transaction. That's what makes it attractive. Your bank will exchange at the baht buying rate not the mid rate so you're paying more with a swift transfer.

Yes I know that ... I always use Transferwise ...in fact last year I wrote a article about how TransferWise works for 'Thailand Starter Kit'...worth a read...so is Thailand Starter Kit...full of useful 'How To' articles.

 

In fact here is the article ... thailandstarterkit.com/money/transferwise-review/

 

I only commented as maybe that would show in you bank book as an international transfer.

Edited January 8, 2019 by JAS21

[trd]

Yes I know that ... I always use Transferwise ...in fact last year I wrote a article about how TransferWise works for 'Thailand Starter Kit'...worth a read...so is Thailand Starter Kit...full of useful 'How To' articles.
 
I only commented as maybe that would show in you bank book as an international transfer.

Cool. It was your article that led me to sign up with Transferwise so I'm very grateful to you. :)

[Pattaya46]

5 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

I only commented as maybe that would show in you bank book as an international transfer.

Maybe not a bad idea.

There are other companies specialised in cheaper transfers the same way as TransferWise.

By example: https://www.instarem.com/

[JAS21]

4 minutes ago, trd said:

7 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

Yes I know that ... I always use Transferwise ...in fact last year I wrote a article about how TransferWise works for 'Thailand Starter Kit'...worth a read...so is Thailand Starter Kit...full of useful 'How To' articles.
 
I only commented as maybe that would show in you bank book as an international transfer.

Cool. It was your article that led me to sign up with Transferwise so I'm very grateful to you. ????

Pleased it helped someone ... took me ages to write and was paid in the UK so had to pay tax!!

[sometimewoodworker]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Clearly it isn't because lots of different bank transaction codes, processes, agents. They should work with the banks otherwise they are heading for chaos for the expats using income method

 

Immigration isn't concerned about transaction codes, they are looking at the descriptive statement which gives the details in the right hand column.

 

immagration has no need to work with banks.

 

YOU have to ensure that YOUR transfers show up in the "statement with notes" (SCB wording) as international transfers. If they don't it is not a problem for immigration, it is your problem because YOUR transfer does not count.

 

no chaos, just lots of people told that they do not qualify for the income method because THEY DO NOT have the simple documentation requirement.

 

just because you want to use xyz transfer services because you can't be arsed or are too cheap to do a SWIFT transfer doesn't mean that it is any good for proof of income 

 

 

"lots of different bank transaction codes, processes, agents"

= not immigrations problem

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

As I have commented on the latest mega-thread, I would have thought it possible to establish a trail for a TransferWise transfer from one’s home bank account to one’s Thai bank account, regardless of how it is coded at the Thai end, via (1) a home bank account statement indicating the initial debit to TransferWise, and (2) the TransferWise confirmation report which indicates the amount paid (equalling the home bank account debit) and, subsequently, the amount of the THB conversion plus details of the Thai bank account which is to be credited, for verification against the passbook in due course. Certainly it is my intention, when I eventually ask my bank for a certification letter, to arm myself with copies of relevant home bank account statements and TransferWise confirmation reports, in addition to my Thai bank passbook.
 

Good luck with that. We need Immigration to confirm what is acceptable otherwise banks won't be comfortable confirming, or won't want to devote the time to it

 

1 hour ago, colinchaffers said:

It's a tough route to go, from your banks perspective all they see is a local transfer from the intermediary bank and may refuse to give you the certificate required. You may have to explain to immigration yourself. Much better to have an account with the fund transfer companies intermediary bank. A whole lot simpler. The extension process can be diffcult enough why complicate matters. If they allow next time they probably won't the following year.

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34 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think it may be expecting a lot to expect bank staff -- especially if an upcountry branch - to wade through all that and be comfortable giving a statement that funds came from abroad base on foreign financial documents which will nto be familiar to them in format (and indeed, if my branch is any indication, which they do nto have the English language capacity to understand).  IMO you'd be better off showing them the relevant credit advices or a letter from the receiving bank in Thailand, in Thai.

 

"Certification letter" is probably not the right term, it is a letter from the bank stating you have such and such an account with X balance as of X date and transferred funds into it from abroad as follows (dates, amounts).  Might be possible to skip the second part of that in cases where the bank book has codes indicating international transfer (Kasikorn does not) but personally I would not be surprised if they require bank letter regardless. Can't assume all IOs are familiar with these bank book codes, especially as they may vary from bank to bank.

As I have just posted on the mega-thread, the gravity of the whole situation is finally beginning to sink in and I need to have a fundamental rethink about going forward.

[trd]

It's very important to realize that the immigration officer will not hesitate to turn you away if he hasn't got exactly the documentation required. I can assure you he will lose no sleep over it.

[Longcut]

2 hours ago, DRG said:

Has anyone done a TW transfer to Krung Thai Bank? Does it show as an overseas transfer?

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No it does not. 

[sometimewoodworker]

45 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think it may be expecting a lot to expect bank staff -- especially if an upcountry branch - to wade through all that and be comfortable giving a statement that funds came from abroad base on foreign financial documents which will nto be familiar to them in format (and indeed, if my branch is any indication, which they do nto have the English language capacity to understand).  IMO you'd be better off showing them the relevant credit advices or a letter from the receiving bank in Thailand, in Thai.

 

"Certification letter" is probably not the right term, it is a letter from the bank stating you have such and such an account with X balance as of X date and transferred funds into it from abroad as follows (dates, amounts).  Might be possible to skip the second part of that in cases where the bank book has codes indicating international transfer (Kasikorn does not) but personally I would not be surprised if they require bank letter regardless. Can't assume all IOs are familiar with these bank book codes, especially as they may vary from bank to bank.

The statement with notes means that you/your bank/your IO has no need to bother about the codes as each entry has an explanation of where it came from or where it went (last 4 digits of the account number + account holders name)

 

so the statment  is the primary proof of international transfers

 

i have several statements with notes that contain too much personal data to post, even redacted but I can post the headings 

 

online request

 

Used at immigration 

Edited January 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

YOU have to ensure that YOUR transfers show up in the "statement with notes" (SCB wording) as international transfers. If they don't it is not a problem for immigration, it is your problem because YOUR transfer does not count.

 

You are assuming IOs throughout the country will be familiar with the statement formats and codes etc of all banks and opreoared to go through 12 month statements examining them. 

 

I very, very, very much doubt that. I am willing to to bet they will insist on a letter from the bank stating that funds were received from abroad. Simple, and leaves the interpretation of bank books/statements, codes etc to the banks -- whi are much better suited to the task  -- rather than to IOs.

 

It will be between you and your bank as to what they need to see to issue such a letter if they do not already have the necessary proof of international transfer in their system. Should be an easy matter if transfers came in directly to your bank. As has been discussed, more complicated if they went through an intermediary bank first as then the record of international transfer will be with that bank, not your bank.

[Danthai]

Does anyone use Transferwise with Bangkok Bank book in Chiangmai using your bank or credit union debit card. If so, does your CU or bank charge an additional fee for using your own debit cared on top of the Transferwise fees? Does your transfer go right into Chiangmai Account or through Bangkok Bank, Bangkok?

[colinchaffers]

The above is from ubonjoe

Joe does not make mention of using bank statements in the process, he outlines the two things required the details from your bank pass book showing the funds come from overseas and a letter of certification that the details are correct. Thai immigration will not accepted anything else.

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[sometimewoodworker]

26 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

You are assuming IOs throughout the country will be familiar with the statement formats and codes etc of all banks and opreoared to go through 12 month statements examining them. 

 

I very, very, very much doubt that. I am willing to to bet they will insist on a letter from the bank stating that funds were received from abroad. Simple, and leaves the interpretation of bank books/statements, codes etc to the banks -- whi are much better suited to the task  -- rather than to IOs.

 

It will be between you and your bank as to what they need to see to issue such a letter if they do not already have the necessary proof of international transfer in their system. Should be an easy matter if transfers came in directly to your bank. As has been discussed, more complicated if they went through an intermediary bank first as then the record of international transfer will be with that bank, not your bank.

UbonJoe's wording 

 

Quote

People are using the wrong wording for what a bank will do. They certainly will not be confirming the income. It will only be a letter confirming the account is valid similar what they do for proof of money in a bank to prove the 400K/800k baht in the bank. Copies of a bank book stamped by the bank or a statement from the bank will be the proof the income has been brought into the country.

And the IO only has to look at a single page (in my case) statement.

 

I would be willing to bet that the statement format is standard and as I mentioned the knowledge of codes i.e. Not required as the detail is in the description or note for each transaction. 

 

There is a statement without notes and they could be refused.

 

notes section 

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, colinchaffers said:

Joe does not make mention of using bank statements in the process, he outlines the two things required the details from your bank pass book showing the funds come from overseas and a letter of certification that the details are correct. Thai immigration will not accepted anything else.

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Yes he does see under

Quote

People are using the wrong wording for what a bank will do. They certainly will not be confirming the income. It will only be a letter confirming the account is valid similar what they do for proof of money in a bank to prove the 400K/800k baht in the bank. Copies of a bank book stamped by the bank or a statement from the bank will be the proof the income has been brought into the country.

In my case it was : letter, bankbook copies and statement.

Edited January 8, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[billd766]

1 hour ago, colinchaffers said:

Call the Kbank call centre while your in the bank, I've been impressed with there English they will explain it to the local staff.

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I do that quite often and sometimes the bank staff do the same so there is a 4 way conversation going on.

[steve73]

I've made 16 transfers of GBP over the past year or so, using TW to Kasikorn.

 

Some were recorded as Dummy & some as International.

 

Analysing the TW transfer advice receipts:

The first few (Nov'17-Apr'18) were denoted as SWIFT via TMB - and were recorded on my statement as

DUMMY BRANCH MCL07416

There were then 5 (May-Jul'18) that were denoted as Local Bank Transfer via Kasikorn that were recorded as

INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND FACTORING CENTER TFN05027

The next few (Aug-Sept) were Local Bank Transfer but via Bangkok bank, and were again Dummy MCL07416,

 

The last couple (Oct-Nov'18) were back to LBT via Kasikorn, but these were recorded as Dummy MCL07206.

 

(I've not made any transfers since Nov as I'm now in my "seasoning" period, and don't want Imm to think they were "internal" transfers.)

 

Clearly there has been no consistency with this, so it's unlikely you can plan to use this to satisfy Immigration, unless Kasikorn are able to understand the TW receipt.

[skatewash]

9 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

In the Bangkok Bank book the latter two appear as "FTT" which sounds good.

(foreign telex transfer?)

 

I just noticed that there are no book entries for March to August. A gap with +30000 Baht

Update your book regularly!

Otherwise you get a "CMB", combined book update with no details!

 

Because of that very problem (possible combined entries) Phuket Immigration requires us to obtain a bank statement covering a 3-4 month period from our bank.  Cost is about 100 baht.  This is for proving the seasoning period for a retirement extension.  I imagine you could obtain a bank statement covering a 12 month period but it might have to be requested from the headquarters office of your bank as most banks in Thailand seem to only keep the latest 6-months worth of information at the local branch.

[anon4546543]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

Hi Sheryl

 

How do I get the KBank head office to send me the credit advice. I make 3 transfers monthly.

From Australia, I sent $20,000 to my wife two weeks before I arrived in Thailand. It was not

there when I arrived. The bank denied all knowledge of the transaction until I showed copies of the transfer.

I then needed to speak to someone from head office. They still denied any knowledge. I threatened police action.

Suddenly a man from head office said my wife had been approved to receive the funds.

Once the transfer happened, I cancelled my account with this bank.

I took it to Bangkok Bank.

I am not endorsing Bangkok Bank. I can only say that they have always been honest with me at a higher cost rate.

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, trd said:

It's worth mentioning for those who don't know, that there's no obstacle in using foreign currency. I have a pound sterling foreign currency account (FCD) and I use that for immigration. The supporting letter from the bank confirms that the exchange rate from sterling to baht would take the balance above the 800k threshold. it's useful if you don't want to be in a position where you have to convert currency to baht just for immigration purposes.

And as I had pointed out to me SOME regional offices do not accept this, Udon Thani was cited. Where is your Extension done?

[colinchaffers]

Response from TransferWise

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[Jeffrey346]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I also use Kasikorn and have been getting letters form them confirming transfer of funds from abroad for years, ever since an IO required it of me for annual extension (apparently wrongly, but they did ,and to avoid problems I've just gotten it every year since). So I know the process.

 

It is true that Kasikorn records all transfers, domestic and international in the same way and branch staff cannot tell the difference. However, the head office generates something called a "Credit Advice" that clearly shows the path the funds took, see example below.

 

You can get a copy of the Credit Advances from the head office and also arrange to get them in future routinely, which you should do. Then when it comes time to get the letter from your branch, show them the Credit Advices and explain that you need that information included in the letter. Since these are official Kasikorn documents they will not have a problem accepting the info, but it may take a little discussion to explain what you need them to write. Once you get the letter keep a copy to show them the following year.  I have done this every year for more than 15 years.

 

Transferwise is a more complicated problem because they do not transfer directly to banks other than Bangkok Bank.  So for people with accounts elsewhere, the money comes into Bangkok Bank in Thailand and from there is a domestic transfer to another Thai bank. So only Bangkok Bank would have the record of the funds origin.

 

This is what a Kasikorn Credit Advice looks like:

 

 

TransferWise has the ability to print a PDF showing all your transfers. The PDF shows the amount, time and date of the transfer and the Bank and account number the funds are transfered to.

I would think this is sufficient backup evidence. 

[henry15]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I also use Kasikorn and have been getting letters form them confirming transfer of funds from abroad for years, ever since an IO required it of me for annual extension (apparently wrongly, but they did ,and to avoid problems I've just gotten it every year since). So I know the process.

 

It is true that Kasikorn records all transfers, domestic and international in the same way and branch staff cannot tell the difference. However, the head office generates something called a "Credit Advice" that clearly shows the path the funds took, see example below.

 

You can get a copy of the Credit Advances from the head office and also arrange to get them in future routinely, which you should do. Then when it comes time to get the letter from your branch, show them the Credit Advices and explain that you need that information included in the letter. Since these are official Kasikorn documents they will not have a problem accepting the info, but it may take a little discussion to explain what you need them to write. Once you get the letter keep a copy to show them the following year.  I have done this every year for more than 15 years.

 

Transferwise is a more complicated problem because they do not transfer directly to banks other than Bangkok Bank.  So for people with accounts elsewhere, the money comes into Bangkok Bank in Thailand and from there is a domestic transfer to another Thai bank. So only Bangkok Bank would have the record of the funds origin.

 

This is what a Kasikorn Credit Advice looks like:

 

 

I get this at my local Kasikorn branch at Chaeng Wattana Pak Kret for free. They have en International trade department.

[luckyluke]

My Thai bank, the Siam Commercial Bank (S.C.B.) don't even have a code for International Transfers.

 

Well at least no trace of it in the list of codes indicated in my bankbook!