Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

judging from what you say,

bojo ain't no fraud but rather sensible, 

nothing to gain - lots to lose - stay away - sound in my book

 

 

Ian Hislop likened Boris to an arsonist who wants to be sacked, so he can come back posing as a fireman to put the fire out.

[bomber]

30 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

judging from what you say,

bojo ain't no fraud but rather sensible, 

nothing to gain - lots to lose - stay away - sound in my book

 

 

he was second in command of the vote leave team,it seems now he couldnt care or less,your right maybe he has come to his sense's,a bit too late tho

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, bomber said:

finally you have admitted you dont know whats going to happen,so its a total gamble,the facts are several of project fear mk1s predictions did happen,same as several if not more will happen with a no deal,also this fear of a EU army was never mentioned in the campaign yet it claims no 6 spot in the list,at 5 we have the mighty fishing industry,which i would think 99.9% of leave coulndnt give a fkuc,i still havent had a reply to which EU laws offend you,this is now about the 7th request i have made,it seems there arent any.

 

It’s a total economic gamble if we stay in. It’s something that nobody can predict with all certainty.

You state that the proposed E.U army was never mentioned in the campaign. But you are wrong, here is one example,from the Nigel Farage destruction of Nick Farage, PRE E.u referendum debate.

 Regarding the ability of E.U countries to plunder our fishing grounds, you are probably correct regarding many of the voters in London. Yet for many coastal communities it’s very important.

 Regarding your request for information as to which E.u laws I do not like,

can I suggest that you read through all these Brexit threads.

 

 

 

[bomber]

15 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

It’s a total economic gamble if we stay in. It’s something that nobody can predict with all certainty.

You state that the proposed E.U army was never mentioned in the campaign. But you are wrong, here is one example,from the Nigel Farage destruction of Nick Farage, PRE E.u referendum debate.

 Regarding the ability of E.U countries to plunder our fishing grounds, you are probably correct regarding many of the voters in London. Yet for many coastal communities it’s very important.

 Regarding your request for information as to which E.u laws I do not like,

can I suggest that you read through all these Brexit threads.

 

 

 

sorry but staying in is not a gamble,but for arguments sake lets say we did stay and the EU suddenly fell apart in the future,straight away we have an advantage as we dont have the Euro,and as you have said many times the UK is superior to any other nation,so surely we would be the strongest of the 27 nations and recover the fastest,the scouse woman in a leave video posted on here last week spent 10 minutes telling her audience how great the UK was and how great everything has been here for the last 10 years,then says we need to leave the EU asap,very very odd imo,i bit like a manager whose team are top of the league in march then telling his players iam get rid of you all as i think i can find better.

[bomber]

36 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

It’s a total economic gamble if we stay in. It’s something that nobody can predict with all certainty.

You state that the proposed E.U army was never mentioned in the campaign. But you are wrong, here is one example,from the Nigel Farage destruction of Nick Farage, PRE E.u referendum debate.

 Regarding the ability of E.U countries to plunder our fishing grounds, you are probably correct regarding many of the voters in London. Yet for many coastal communities it’s very important.

 Regarding your request for information as to which E.u laws I do not like,

can I suggest that you read through all these Brexit threads.

 

 

 

i will try for the EIGHTH time,which EU law is the one that annoys you the most or effected you personally the most.

[nontabury]

36 minutes ago, bomber said:

i will try for the EIGHTH time,which EU law is the one that annoys you the most or effected you personally the most.

 It’s all about Democracy.

The knowledge that E.u law takes preference over U.K. law.

The knowledge that we are sending a very large charitable contribution to the Bureaucrats in Brussels, who then use this money to entice companies to transfer jobs away from our own people, to the benifit of continental Europe.

The knowledge that the E.u is for the benifit of big businesses.

Knowing that the wages of the lower paid, are effected by the importation of cheap Eastern European Labour.

The knowledge that European fishing fleets, have taken control of our waters.

The knowledge that the E.u has taken control of our nations destiny.

The knowledge that our nations sovereignty has been curtailed.

The knowledge that we do not have Full control over our boarders.

The knowledge that the E.u prohibit the U.K from making trade deals with the rest of the World.

Not Knowing What the Establishment are scheming to impose on the people over the coming years. Same as we had no idea what they had planned and implemented without our agreement over the last 40yrs.

 These are just a few, of the reasons why I think we will be far better out of this so called Union. Though I’m certain you will disagree.

It’s just a pity that you have only recently come to these Brexit threads, otherwise you would be aware that these points,plus other have been thoroughly discussed and argued over, for the past 2+yrs.

 

 Finally I would just like to say, that if the trading union called the EEC had been left in place, there would have been none of these problems.

 

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

On the day after Brexit and the years beyond what difference will it make to the life of a Brexiteer? How will life be different out of the EU? 

 

I suspect it will make little or no difference to anyone's life if they are not in employment, say retired ... none whatsoever. It's like when your football team wins the league, it might feel good at the time but makes sod all difference to your life. 

 

 

[bomber]

20 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 It’s all about Democracy.

The knowledge that E.u law takes preference over U.K. law.

The knowledge that we are sending a very large charitable contribution to the Bureaucrats in Brussels, who then use this money to entice companies to transfer jobs away from our own people, to the benifit of continental Europe.

The knowledge that the E.u is for the benifit of big businesses.

Knowing that the wages of the lower paid, are effected by the importation of cheap Eastern European Labour.

The knowledge that European fishing fleets, have taken control of our waters.

The knowledge that the E.u has taken control of our nations destiny.

The knowledge that our nations sovereignty has been curtailed.

The knowledge that we do not have Full control over our boarders.

The knowledge that the E.u prohibit the U.K from making trade deals with the rest of the World.

Not Knowing What the Establishment are scheming to impose on the people over the coming years. Same as we had no idea what they had planned and implemented without our agreement over the last 40yrs.

 These are just a few, of the reasons why I think we will be far better out of this so called Union. Though I’m certain you will disagree.

It’s just a pity that you have only recently come to these Brexit threads, otherwise you would be aware that these points,plus other have been thoroughly discussed and argued over, for the past 2+yrs.

 

 Finally I would just like to say, that if the trading union called the EEC had been left in place, there would have been none of these problems.

 

 

 

 

 

i just dont understand how EU law takes preference over UK law,sorry to tell you in 99% of cases it simply does not.Charitable contributions is a strange way of putting it,our govts charitable contributions are to the huge overseas aid which the EU have no say over,its our barmy idea,how are the wages of the lower paid effected by eastern europeans,the minimum wage is set by our govt,again nowt to do with the EU,have to admire your faith in the future UK goverments bearing in mind the chaos of the last 2 years and the fact the next one will be Labour,this will be the final nail in the UK coffin. 

[bomber]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

On the day after Brexit and the years beyond what difference will it make to the life of a Brexiteer? How will life be different out of the EU? 

 

I suspect it will make little or no difference to anyone's life if they are not in employment, say retired ... none whatsoever. It's like when your football team wins the league, it might feel good at the time but makes sod all difference to your life. 

 

 

spoonies wont change,benefit scroungers and lazy idle folks wont change,alcoholics and druggies will still be in abundance,OAPs will still be better off than the younger generation trying to find decent jobs,england will still go out in the early rounds of the WC,and everybody will be thinking was it worth it.

[Laughing Gravy]

12 hours ago, bomber said:

the mail claims only 2 were correct,then uses only 4 examples,one claims good GDP figures yet we went from 2nd to sixth so thats BS,and i dont see how cutting rates from from 0,5% to 0.25% points to a strong economy,it is what happens when the economy needs a boost not booming,anyway with the rate at 0.5% the tools to boost in the forthcoming economy and sparce,good luck mr carney your going to need it

Yes it does and it was over a year ago but the point was Osborne and his scaremongering and project fear didn't work. I see you didn't comment on the other (very pro EU papers/mags). Why was that I wonder.?

[rixalex]

On 1/23/2019 at 7:38 PM, 7by7 said:

So will you answer the question I have repeatedly asked over the last 12 months; a question no Brexiteer has yet answered?

 

If you are so certain of the support for Brexit, why are you afraid of a second referendum?

Can you please stop lying. I have answered this question on multiple occasions, as have others.

 

The quote below being just one example, and it was in direct response to your question and quoted you, so for you to claim that no Brexiteer has answered you on this point, is complete fabrication. Or to put it another way, a lie.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 11:45 AM, rixalex said:

It's a loaded question, phrased that way, because it assumes the only possible reason a person could have for objecting to a second referendum must be the fear of losing.

I don't FEAR a second referendum. I don't WANT one. My reasoning for that is the exact same reasoning that you would be here giving had remain won and had leave been now trying to overturn the decision. You and all the other remainers would be saying, "look, the decision has been made, the PM promised it was one-off and would be abided by... sorry guys, that's democracy, you lost... if we have another vote so soon, all that will happen is the side that loses will call for another vote and so the cycle will go on".

Implement the 2016 vote first. Then campaign for another vote. At least then the integrity of that vote isn't lost, and at least then the matter of Brexit can be proven one way or the other - success or failure. Then you can say, "look, we gave Brexit a fair shot, we left the EU, things didn't work out, lessons have been learnt, let's vote back in and move forward with this issue put to bed once and for all".

You want to skip all that and just go straight to the part where the 2016 vote gets consigned to history, and you get your way. It won't work. Even if you get another referendum and even if you win it. Even then. You'll still end up losing. Not allowing the 2016 vote to be implemented will come at a great cost, most especially for those who still harbour hopes of Britain remaining in the EU.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, bomber said:

i just dont understand how EU law takes preference over UK law,sorry to tell you in 99% of cases it simply does not.Charitable contributions is a strange way of putting it,our govts charitable contributions are to the huge overseas aid which the EU have no say over,its our barmy idea,how are the wages of the lower paid effected by eastern europeans,the minimum wage is set by our govt,again nowt to do with the EU,have to admire your faith in the future UK goverments bearing in mind the chaos of the last 2 years and the fact the next one will be Labour,this will be the final nail in the UK coffin. 

If Labour get in then I can actually agree with the last phrase. Reference the law and sovereignty, you need to read the treaties. 

[Loiner]

 
Going to answer that challenge, or provide some pathetic excuse for not doing so?
 

Sorry me old love. You are not the ringmaster in this circus and I don’t jump through your hoops.

Hope you didn’t waste too long typing all that.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vinny41]

7 hours ago, bomber said:

i just dont understand how EU law takes preference over UK law,sorry to tell you in 99% of cases it simply does not.Charitable contributions is a strange way of putting it,our govts charitable contributions are to the huge overseas aid which the EU have no say over,its our barmy idea,how are the wages of the lower paid effected by eastern europeans,the minimum wage is set by our govt,again nowt to do with the EU,have to admire your faith in the future UK goverments bearing in mind the chaos of the last 2 years and the fact the next one will be Labour,this will be the final nail in the UK coffin. 

Does European Law Override National Law?

Yes it does.
Is this stated in the Lisbon Treaty? Yes

 

Does the UK accept this principle?

Yes, and it has done since 1972, when Parliament passed the European Communities Act. Since then, if there has been a conflict between national law and European law, the UK courts have to give priority to European law.

https://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-legal-principles/eu-law-does-european-law-override-national-law.html

 

2 UK passport holders living in BKK both retired Person A born in the UK lived in the UK for 90% of his life before moving to Thailand

Person B Born in Germany lived in Germany before relocating to the UK when he acquired UK citizenship and UK passport.

Both recently got married to Thai women and Both couples are planning to move and settled down in the UK

Which couple can apply for an EEA FAMILY PERMIT and which couple can't which couple will be required to show savings of £63,000 or more and which couple isn't required to show any savings

[bomber]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Does European Law Override National Law?

Yes it does.
Is this stated in the Lisbon Treaty? Yes

 

Does the UK accept this principle?

Yes, and it has done since 1972, when Parliament passed the European Communities Act. Since then, if there has been a conflict between national law and European law, the UK courts have to give priority to European law.

https://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-legal-principles/eu-law-does-european-law-override-national-law.html

 

2 UK passport holders living in BKK both retired Person A born in the UK lived in the UK for 90% of his life before moving to Thailand

Person B Born in Germany lived in Germany before relocating to the UK when he acquired UK citizenship and UK passport.

Both recently got married to Thai women and Both couples are planning to move and settled down in the UK

Which couple can apply for an EEA FAMILY PERMIT and which couple can't which couple will be required to show savings of £63,000 or more and which couple isn't required to show any savings

proves my point EU law doesnt affect 99.9999% of UK,folks as 0.0001% dont marry ex thai bargirls,in 50 years ive never come across anyone or heard of anyone i know at work,or in my town being affected by any EU law,other than the pounds and ounces thing 10-15 years ago,and that was no big deal.

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, bomber said:

proves my point EU law doesnt affect 99.9999% of UK,folks as 0.0001% dont marry ex thai bargirls,in 50 years ive never come across anyone or heard of anyone in know at work,or in my town being affected by any EU law,other than the pounds and ounces thing 10-15 years ago,and that was no big deal.

What about the freedom of movement ?

One million Europeans arriving in the UK  and getting jobs , usually for a cheaper salary than UK workers , many Brits were undercut in their salaries , the Eastern Europeans living five to a room and eating a loaf of bread a day and a swan undercutting the British guy with a family and mortgage 

[bomber]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Does European Law Override National Law?

Yes it does.
Is this stated in the Lisbon Treaty? Yes

 

Does the UK accept this principle?

Yes, and it has done since 1972, when Parliament passed the European Communities Act. Since then, if there has been a conflict between national law and European law, the UK courts have to give priority to European law.

https://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-legal-principles/eu-law-does-european-law-override-national-law.html

 

2 UK passport holders living in BKK both retired Person A born in the UK lived in the UK for 90% of his life before moving to Thailand

Person B Born in Germany lived in Germany before relocating to the UK when he acquired UK citizenship and UK passport.

Both recently got married to Thai women and Both couples are planning to move and settled down in the UK

Which couple can apply for an EEA FAMILY PERMIT and which couple can't which couple will be required to show savings of £63,000 or more and which couple isn't required to show any savings

you talk of stupid EU law,i wonder what the germans/french  would make of the UK law my cousins are going through at the moment and a law i have also had friends affected by and may well be myself in the near future,the taking of all savings and selling of homes to pay for nursing home costs in old age,an EU citizen probably wouldnt believe it possible and would be even more shocked if you told them this UK law didnt apply to Scotland,and you want to see our govt come up with more of our own laws,UK law isnt even equal within in the UK,this is just one example there are more,iam surprised someone hasnt challenged this law in the european courts maybe they have i dont know,but it proves we are not at the mercy of EU law,what a shame as they would never of approved anything as barbaric.be careful what you wish for

[bomber]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What about the freedom of movement ?

One million Europeans arriving in the UK  and getting jobs , usually for a cheaper salary than UK workers , many Brits were undercut in their salaries , the Eastern Europeans living five to a room and eating a loaf of bread a day and a swan undercutting the British guy with a family and mortgage 

90% + work for minimum wage,this wage has risen well above the cost of living in the last 5-10 years it should also help in encouraging UK benefit scroungers into work,this argument usually equals out imo,but is used widely by the leave bunch.

[rixalex]

18 minutes ago, bomber said:

proves my point EU law doesnt affect 99.9999% of UK,folks as 0.0001% dont marry ex thai bargirls,in 50 years ive never come across anyone or heard of anyone in know at work,or in my town being affected by any EU law,other than the pounds and ounces thing 10-15 years ago,and that was no big deal.

The only thing you have proven is that remainers have as much capacity for bigotry as anyone.

[bomber]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

The only thing you have proven is that remainers have as much capacity for bigotry as anyone.

in what way

[bomber]

31 minutes ago, rixalex said:

The only thing you have proven is that remainers have as much capacity for bigotry as anyone.

in what way?

[bomber]

57 minutes ago, bomber said:

proves my point EU law doesnt affect 99.9999% of UK folks as 0.0001% dont marry ex thai bargirls,in 50 years ive never come across anyone or heard of anyone i know at work,or in my town being affected by any EU law,other than the pounds and ounces thing 10-15 years ago,and that was no big deal.

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, bomber said:

90% + work for minimum wage,this wage has risen well above the cost of living in the last 5-10 years it should also help in encouraging UK benefit scroungers into work,this argument usually equals out imo,but is used widely by the leave bunch.

Minimum wage is much too low. 18,000 pa minimum.

[bomber]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Minimum wage is much too low. 18,000 pa minimum.

its 17k now,so it cannot be that much too low,raising it too high will send companies oversea's oven before the brexit fiasco kicks in,iam against brexit after seeing the damage its going to cause but i would still like to see a slowing of immigrants coming here,hiking the minimum wage up too high would only encourage more to come here and play into the brexiteers hands,anyway with the damage a bad deal will cause many in 2-4 years time will be grateful for any kind of wage.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, bomber said:

90% + work for minimum wage,this wage has risen well above the cost of living in the last 5-10 years it should also help in encouraging UK benefit scroungers into work,this argument usually equals out imo,but is used widely by the leave bunch.

You keep giving % age figures , are these figures based on fact , or do you just keep on making them up ?

   The endless supply  of young Eastern Europeans willing to work for minimum wage , keeps the wages down , its good for big business , because its less wages that they have to pay and more profit for them .

   If theres no one willing to work for minimal wages , they will have to raise the rate .

Pay a better salary and get British people into work

 

[bomber]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You keep giving % age figures , are these figures based on fact , or do you just keep on making them up ?

   The endless supply  of young Eastern Europeans willing to work for minimum wage , keeps the wages down , its good for big business , because its less wages that they have to pay and more profit for them .

   If theres no one willing to work for minimal wages , they will have to raise the rate .

Pay a better salary and get British people into work

 

ok then just for you,most of the eastern europeans work for minimum wage,does that sound better than 90%+,you say pay a better salary and british people will work,that statement hits the nail on the head,too many get too much for doing nothing,paying a higher minimum wage will kill off or make many relocate,the balance has to be right,if the country was booming then there is a case for it but with brexit and a recession coming its a dangerous game to play,there is plenty of work for british people at the moment its getting them to do it thats the problem.

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, bomber said:

ok then just for you,most of the eastern europeans work for minimum wage,does that sound better than 90%+,you say pay a better salary and british people will work,that statement hits the nail on the head,too many get too much for doing nothing,paying a higher minimum wage will kill off or make many relocate,the balance has to be right,if the country was booming then there is a case for it but with brexit and a recession coming its a dangerous game to play,there is plenty of work for british people at the moment its getting them to do it thats the problem.

So you think that starbucks , Pret a manger , cafes , restaurants , nanny employers, carer employers , farms and everyone else that employs Eastern Europeans will all move over to Europe , rather than up the pay of employees ?

[evadgib]

The current impasse explained:

 

[bomber]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

So you think that starbucks , Pret a manger , cafes , restaurants , nanny employers, carer employers , farms and everyone else that employs Eastern Europeans will all move over to Europe , rather than up the pay of employees ?

by relocating i was referring to manufacturing,pushing up pay means pushing up prices,push up prices too much and you know what happens,anyway all will be well soon brexit will deliver us a messiah called Corbyn and he has promised a minimum wage of £10.00 per hour,you will never of had it so good,around this time i shall be taking early retirement to the that warm terrible place within the terrible EU to drink my €1.30 pints and €1.00 wine as opposed to brexit supporter and master of the minimum wage mr wetherspoons £2.80 plus made 100%in Britain beer,happy days ????

[aright]

6 hours ago, bomber said:

proves my point EU law doesnt affect 99.9999% of UK,folks as 0.0001% dont marry ex thai bargirls,in 50 years ive never come across anyone or heard of anyone i know at work,or in my town being affected by any EU law,other than the pounds and ounces thing 10-15 years ago,and that was no big deal.

I disagree but want to add another perspective to the argument. What the EU is now is not static. I have made the point before, the Commission imo has plans to make the E27 the E1 and part of that process, of necessity, involves aligning all laws centrally. As evidence no one asked me if I wanted an EU anthem or flag but they exist and fairly soon we might be adding an EU Army.