Combination of Income and Bank Balance to equal 800K Baht

[bubbaba]

I have been on Non O Visa, retired for the past few years now. I have no money at present in a Thai Bank. I have in the past only had 65,000 plus baht income which is now being reduced to approximately 40 to 42.000 Baht per month. So my question is - could I have less than 800K in the bank and only 40 or 42K in income monthly to qualify? If so, how much would I be required to hold on deposit in a Thai Bank? Thank you.

[wgdanson]

12 x 40k = 480k. 800k - 480k = 320k. There's your answer I would have thought.

[Lungstib]

Its several years ago and may not be relevant but a friend of mine used this top-up system for his 400,000 marriage extension for several years but then got turned down when they supposedly stopped allowing it. That was Chiang Mai. He then ended up using a lawyer to overcome his lack of 400,000 in the bank.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, bubbaba said:

So my question is - could I have less than 800K in the bank and only 40 or 42K in income monthly to qualify? If so, how much would I be required to hold on deposit in a Thai Bank?

Recent threads only mentioned 800K in bank for no less than 3 months.

A combination method of saving in bank and a monthly amounting to 800K is still in play as I understand it.

The problem is the verification of monthly earning amount to satisfy Thai immigration whether it be combination or the 65,000 per month.

I would go to your immigration office and ask them. 

[allane]

Post # 3 is both off topic, and irrelevant to the OP's question. The "Combination Method" is not allowed for Marriage Visas, or extension of same.

Edited January 20, 2019 by allane
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[BobBKK]

400k and 32,500?

 

65,000 x 12 doesn't = 800,000

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

400k and 32,500?

 

65,000 x 12 doesn't = 800,000

The requirement for the combination of income and money in the bank is 800k baht.

400k baht plus 32.500 X 12 only equals 790k baht. You need about 33.5 baht to reach 800k baht. Or put 10k baht more in the bank.

[BobBKK]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The requirement for the combination of income and money in the bank is 800k baht.

400k baht plus 32.500 X 12 only equals 790k baht. You need about 33.5 baht to reach 800k baht. Or put 10k baht more in the bank.

Yes but people quote 65,000 and that doesn't equal 800,000 pa  (780,000 last time I looked?).

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Yes but people quote 65,000 and that doesn't equal 800,000 pa  (780,000 last time I looked?).

The 65k is only for the income option. When they set the 800k baht number they rounded it down to 65k baht instead of using 66.66666k  baht which is 800k baht divided by 12.

They did the opposite for marriage, The rounded it up to 400k baht divided by 12 to 40k instead of 33.33333k baht. You would think they could of used 35k baht. 

[Haso]

I was my belief if you had an O A visa issued in your home country then you only have to show (to Immigration in your home country  that you have sufficient funds in your home bank) nothing to do with Thai banks. Is that true or false.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Haso said:

I was my belief if you had an O A visa issued in your home country then you only have to show (to Immigration in your home country  that you have sufficient funds in your home bank) nothing to do with Thai banks. Is that true or false.

You can show the money in a bank in your home country when you apply for a OA visa at a Thai embassy or official consulate.

It only needs to shown in a Thai bank if applying for an extension of stay based upon retirement at immigration here,

[wgdanson]

I know I have asked this before, but, I have a pension plan which only pays out once a year on 1st January, £6000, say 450,000k. for easy maths. That went into my Foreign Currency Account in Bangkok Bank as an International Transfer. I have another similar policy which will pay £4400 in July. Together that is £10400 = Bht 425,00. I do need some of that money to pay health insurances, car insurance scholl fees etc.

Now I want to deposit 40k every month for the next 10 month = Bht 400,000. So togehter I have brought into Thailand 425 + 400 = 825,000. Divide this by 12 and it averages out at 68,750 per month. ANYONE, would this be acceptable do you think please?

Is it 65k every month and you can spend as much of that as you want, or a lesser amount, topped up to 800k, but that top-up must stay in the bank, and have been there for 3 months? Confusing.

I shall try to put this down on paper and ask my IO, but as we know, it is not always interpretated the same.

Edited January 21, 2019 by wgdanson

[sfokevin]

Curious... Has anyone successfully done the combo method using the new rules?... Another thread reported that they were denied extensions...

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Now I want to deposit 40k every month for the next 10 month = Bht 400,000. So togehter I have brought into Thailand 425 + 400 = 825,000. Divide this by 12 and it averages out at 68,750 per month. ANYONE, would this be acceptable do you think please?

There is no averaging of income mentioned for extensions based upon retirement.

You could put the 400k baht in bank and then show transfers into the the country of 40k baht in the month to reach the 800k baht total of the 2 using combination option.

8 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Is it 65k every month and you can spend as much of that as you want, or a lesser amount, topped up to 800k, but that top-up must stay in the bank, and have been there for 3 months? Confusing.

If you transfer 65k baht into the country every month you can do whatever you want to the money.

If using the 800k baht in the bank option you must have it in the bank for 3 month on the date you apply for the extension.

 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Curious... Has anyone successfully done the combo method using the new rules?... Another thread reported that they were denied extensions...

I have seen no reports of anybody using the combination yet this year using the income portion going into a bank yet for proof.

There has been one report of an office refusing to accept an application using the combination option. It seems to be some offices are still confused about what is required since it is not clearly shown in the changes as to what is accepted.

[Isaanman]

5 hours ago, Haso said:

I was my belief if you had an O A visa issued in your home country then you only have to show (to Immigration in your home country  that you have sufficient funds in your home bank) nothing to do with Thai banks. Is that true or false.

This is true. I received my O-A visa from the Thai Consulate in Washington D.C. with a notarized copy of my US bank account showing current sufficient funds done at the bank the day before I submitted my request for the visa at the Consulate. The hour after we received the visa in our passports, we were able to use that money in our US bank and got 2 years' stay in Thailand out of it-- a great way to do it, if you can, IMHO! 

[wgdanson]

5 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Curious... Has anyone successfully done the combo method using the new rules?... Another thread reported that they were denied extensions...

I would think that most people needing to do their Extension within the next few months, will have (hopefully) got their Embassy letter before they were stopped. So it will be a few months before problems start to occur.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I have seen no reports of anybody using the combination yet this year using the income portion going into a bank yet for proof.

There has been one report of an office refusing to accept an application using the combination option. It seems to be some offices are still confused about what is required since it is not clearly shown in the changes as to what is accepted.

 

Joe, regarding the combination method of qualifying for retirement extensions...

 

1. I believe your interpretation and opinion has been that Immigration, in its recent police order changes, should not have/did not change the prior provisions that allowed the combination method. In other words, the recent revisions only changed those things that they changed, and didn't erase everything else.

 

2. However, until the dust settles from the recent changes and how the various Immigration offices are interpreting the resulting landscape of things, it seems fair to say that -- at least for the present -- there's some uncertainty re the current status of the combo method for retirement extensions. Especially given the one reported denial that you mentioned above.

 

Yes, no???

 

[cleopatra2]

38 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Joe, regarding the combination method of qualifying for retirement extensions...

 

1. I believe your interpretation and opinion has been that Immigration, in its recent police order changes, should not have/did not change the prior provisions that allowed the combination method. In other words, the recent revisions only changed those things that they changed, and didn't erase everything else.

 

2. However, until the dust settles from the recent changes and how the various Immigration offices are interpreting the resulting landscape of things, it seems fair to say that -- at least for the present -- there's some uncertainty re the current status of the combo method for retirement extensions. Especially given the one reported denial that you mentioned above.

 

Yes, no???

 

It is important to note the difference in the Income and combination method

Income method requires a monthly transfer of 65k

The combination requires annual earnings plus savings to be equal to at least 800k

 

The difference is important for the following, consider savings 400k , and 4 monthly transfers of 40k, on filing date. This would not qualify as the annual earnings is only 160k .

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

It is important to note the difference in the Income and combination method

Income method requires a monthly transfer of 65k

The combination requires annual earnings plus savings to be equal to at least 800k

 

The difference is important for the following, consider savings 400k , and 4 monthly transfers of 40k, on filing date. This would not qualify as the annual earnings is only 160k .

 

I have no idea what your comments have to do with my prior post, which only dealt with the issue of whether or not Immigration is still accepting combination method retirement extension applications.

 

I wasn't talking about the alternate bank deposits method at all, nor was I talking about the details of what's required to qualify for a combination method application.

 

[David Walden]

7 hours ago, Haso said:

I was my belief if you had an O A visa issued in your home country then you only have to show (to Immigration in your home country  that you have sufficient funds in your home bank) nothing to do with Thai banks. Is that true or false.

That is how I obtain my A-O  M retirement visa in Australia from the Thai Embassy in Canberra..  I have related the story on these pages a dozen or more times and often get insults in reply, you can access all of my post on this site if you wish to search my (real name).  I don't use my Australian Aged pension (AAP) or money I have in the bank when applying, I simply use the surrender value of my bank managed retirement super fund which is more than the required amount that I can access if required to prove I have the funds the required Bt800,000.  The Lady who I dealt with me last time at the Thai Embassy complemented me on using my Retirement fund surrender value to prove I had Bt800.000 available "saying you have proof with that statement" and  also said "It makes it all very simple for us,  an original bank statement showing the amount required would have been OK also" she said.  This service I believe is available in just about all Thai Embassies worldwide.  Some countries do have some restrictions.   Cost Aus $275 plus police report and medical as required and a fair bit of paperwork.  You arrive in Thailand for almost 2 years with everything in order.  The 1st year visa is multi-entry, come and go as often as you like.  If you depart and return a few days before the 1st year concludes you will receive permission to stay another 364 days.  Yes, it's almost 2 years.

    http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa

Edited January 21, 2019 by David Walden

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Joe, regarding the combination method of qualifying for retirement extensions...

 

1. I believe your interpretation and opinion has been that Immigration, in its recent police order changes, should not have/did not change the prior provisions that allowed the combination method. In other words, the recent revisions only changed those things that they changed, and didn't erase everything else.

 

2. However, until the dust settles from the recent changes and how the various Immigration offices are interpreting the resulting landscape of things, it seems fair to say that -- at least for the present -- there's some uncertainty re the current status of the combo method for retirement extensions. Especially given the one reported denial that you mentioned above.

 

Yes, no???

 

The US consul in a recent interview on 103FM raised the issues about the combo method and said that he had been assured that this method has always been available but mostly put in the too hard basket by Thai officials.  It is about to become common.

[David Walden]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You can show the money in a bank in your home country when you apply for a OA visa at a Thai embassy or official consulate.

It only needs to shown in a Thai bank if applying for an extension of stay based upon retirement at immigration here,

I did not have to show funds in a Thai bank account to get my extension for my recent arrival.  It was simply stamped by immigration for a further 364 days at DMK.  Arrived on 28/08/2018 extension of stay stamp until 27/08/2019.  I queried this with the man at immigration he said "that's how we do it now all OK"

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The US consul in a recent interview on 103FM raised the issues about the combo method and said that he had been assured that this method has always been available but mostly put in the too hard basket by Thai officials.  It is about to become common.

I find that hard to believe. The average U.S. social security pensions is significantly under 65K per month. So I don't believe combination applications have been at all rare in the past. It's been a well accepted method.

HOWEVER, it's a totally new ballgame with income applications WITHOUT embassy letters. That's obviously because the "memo" explaining the alternative way to income qualify for retirement ONLY talks about monthly imports of at least 65K and nothing else. 

 

It should not surprise anyone that immigration offices are taking that literally. Of course they should still do combination applications without embassy letters but in my view it's an error in the MEMO not to spell that out EXPLICITLY.

 

[David Walden]

7 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Curious... Has anyone successfully done the combo method using the new rules?... Another thread reported that they were denied extensions...

The  Combo rules are not new they have been available for many years just been put in the too hard basket by Thai Immigration.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I did not have to show funds in a Thai bank account to get my extension for my recent arrival.  It was simply stamped by immigration for a further 364 days at DMK.  Arrived on 28/08/2018 extension of stay stamp until 27/08/2019.  I queried this with the man at immigration he said "that's how we do it now all OK"

You got a one year permit to stay allowed by your valid OA visa not a extension of stay when you entered the country.

[David Walden]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You got a one year permit to stay allowed by your valid OA visa not a extension of stay when you entered the country.

I prefer to use simple English so that people know what I'm trying to tell them.  I am talking about my personal experience.  I was given a permit or extension or permission to stay in Thailand which is valid for a year after my original visa expired...I don't care what the Thais want to call it.  I'm using it as a verb, not as a noun.

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I prefer to use simple English so that people know what I'm trying to tell them.  I am talking about my personal experience.  I was given a permit or extension or permission to stay in Thailand which is valid for a year after my original visa expired...I don't care what the Thais want to call it.  I'm using it as a verb, not as a noun.

As you're posting on a public forum about visa technicalities, using clear technical terms is important to readers. Otherwise many people get confused and think you're talking about one thing when you're actually talking about another thing that is very different in practice and implications. Which happens all the time here with people confusing O-A visas with annual retirement extensions.

 

Cheers.

[David Walden]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I find that hard to believe. The average U.S. social security pensions is significantly under 65K per month. So I don't believe combination applications have been at all rare in the past. It's been a well accepted method.

HOWEVER, it's a totally new ballgame with income applications WITHOUT embassy letters. That's obviously because the "memo" explaining the alternative way to income qualify for retirement ONLY talks about monthly imports of at least 65K and nothing else. 

 

It should not surprise anyone that immigration offices are taking that literally. Of course they should still do combination applications without embassy letters but in my view it's an error in the MEMO not to spell that out EXPLICITLY.

 

In the interview on 103 FM the US Consul indicated that the combo method had been discussed between him and Thai immigration extensively.  I believe his comments on this subject could indicate the US Embassy is likely to use their influence to have US citizen use the combo method more often if required and they would assist by counseling applicants on how to go about it better, perhaps by using their influence to get Thai immigration to implement this method more simply.  He also indicated that the US Embassy in Thailand had 1,600 staff whose main aim is to assist issues like this and invited US Citz not to held back. Perhaps if a few people make the application it will get the ball rolling.

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, David Walden said:

In the interview on 103 FM the US Consul indicated that the combo method had been discussed between him and Thai immigration extensively.  I believe his comments on this subject could indicate the US Embassy is likely to use their influence to have US citizen use the combo method more often if required and they would assist by counseling applicants on how to go about it better, perhaps by using their influence to get Thai immigration to implement this method more simply.  He also indicated that the US Embassy in Thailand had 1,600 staff whose main aim is to assist issues like this and invited US Citz not to held back. Perhaps if a few people make the application it will get the ball rolling.

I find your comment incredibly naïve. The U.S. embassy is likely done with this. They rudely stopped issuing embassy letters disrupting the residence stability of a great number of U.S. citizens. Then they talked about an alternative for using the income method. For a while they gave some weak tea lip service to trying to "train" Thai immigration to accept U.S. income documents such as social security benefits letters. Nothing came of that. Nothing, and it's clear it never will.

 

The alternative came from Thai immigration in a MEMO that fails to mention the combination method. The rules in the memo are extremely onerous even for people with the full 65K income. Must show 12 monthly transfers. Each must be at least 65K. Each must be from abroad. Each and every year for as long as the expat is getting annual extensions in Thailand. No room for any flexibility or mechanical/timing issues with money transfers / exchange rate dips (if your income is close to 65K) at all which actually in real life are not particularly rare. It basically pushes many people into using the 800K bank method which is fine for people that can meet that and are willing. In my view, this new "memo" scheme (the income method without embassy letter) is probably the MOST ONEROUS scheme in the world for nations that have retirement legalization programs. But the 800K method remains which is significantly less onerous so it's not all bad news, as at least that methods stands. As far as the U.S. embassy is concerned they likely think they've already done their job after messing people up stopping the letters. Now there is that income method alternative without letter which didn't exist before. Should there be pressure to make the combo method actually apply to income applications without letter? According to our top guru here it already does but it's already clear in real life some or many offices do not see it that way. Yes, of course. I'm very skeptical the U.S. embassy is going to be very involved in such efforts, and even with success, it's the same inflexible MONTLY IMPORT rules, but with the combination method instead. Why am I skeptical? Look at that totally unclear memo we got from Thai immigration as far as combo. Look at the total lack of flexibility in the memo rules. The U.S. embassy was supposedly involved in suggesting things to Thai immigration in that. I don't see how the results can be seen as anything but very expat-unfriendly. The U.S. embassy was supposedly interested in encouraging Thai immigration to accept U.S.  based income documents. (Will never happen.) If these are the type of results we can expect from proactive action from the U.S. embassy, then to expect much more at this point is as I said before, quite naïve. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Jingthing